Problem with the colonies!

[HEAVY FIRST RATE]

I have a problem I am hoping that my Empire loving player friends can help me solve. The last few times I have played the British empire, I have ignored the quest to get the Thirteen Colonies to join me and concentrated my efforts in snapping up rebel lands and nations that don't don't have any current allies, the great money producing continent of India, and finally the pirates when their usefulness no longer serves me any purpose. At some point in the game, the number of such available targets become scarce, but usually not before I am within a few areas short of the required number to win the game which the number of colonies in the Thirteen Colonies will usually fulfill, so I complete the quest and gain the remaining needed areas all at once.

The reason I do this is because keeping trading partners, which we all know is essential to British and Dutch players to maintain healthy growth and military might, is difficult when the entire world suddenly goes to war with each other and the various national ports and their trade routes become very unreliable as a source of income. If you snatch up the Thirteen Colonies early on, you essentially lose them as a "trading partner" and they in fact become a drain on your economy because the amount of money and time needed to develope them into a healthy economically paying situation is quite long in the game. By building an army and parking it in North America to protect the Thirteen Colonies from the aspirations of the Iroquois, French, Spanish, Cherokee, and other oddball attempts to establish footholds in the Americas, and only siding with the colonies when someone declares war on them, you avoid getting into war with more than one opponent at a time, as in allies of those who declare war on the colonies rarely if ever join the attacker in war, and it allows you to eventually eliminate the Iroquois, French, sometimes the Spanish, Huron, Iniut and any rebel provinces that pop up, and add them to your province count. The Cherokee I try to contol only to the point that I don't cause the Thirteen Colonies quest to activate. Suprisingly enough, left to their own devices, the colonies become a very reliable "trading partner" developing their economical infrastructure quite well and adept enough at naval traditions to do a very adequate job of protecting their own trade routes from pirates and even expanding into the sugar, ivory, and spice trade nodes.

And so, I have happily played several games with this strategy, until now! Current game is this, as usually happens, the Iroquois almost from day one attack the colonies and the United States comes into play. You can't allow this because the U.S. will slowly take over all the colonies and you will lose your colony quest, so, we eliminate the U.S. and go to war to erradicate the Iroquois. Shortly into that war, France decides to covet one of the colonies and Spain declines to join her in the war. The Iroquois are screaming for peace and since I can only really fund one army in North America at this time, I treaty with them and turn my attention to France. Since I have a large number of 5th rates in my navy, essentially I seal off all the ports of the French everywhere and eliminate her navy and trade totally from existance and then proceed to strip her entirely of her new world possessions! Despite this, the stupid French declare war on the Austrians, the Prussians, and the Sweden while their economy is totally crippled and they have no navy! They sue for peace and I give it to them thinking they are no longer a threat and they, in fact, never attempt to come back to the new world. The Iroquois, of course, can never keep a peace for any lenght of time, so I make them disappear. The Huron then start building up a huge force of two full stack armies plus a half stack in their town and province south of Ruperts Land. I nip that in the bud and also take the Northwest Territories to up my province count. Newfoundland goes rebel so I take that and of course the Inuit immediately begin a buildup to invade Newfoundland so I delete them also.

The pirates suddenly lose interest in harassing other nations on the trade nodes and focus almost exclusively on me, so they have to go. I have during this time, been fighting the Marathas in India ( because I really, really, really hate them ) and now own the southern half of India with the Mughals owning the northern half. The Mughals, get this, now are bigger a$$holes than the Marathas because they will not treat or trade with me unless I give them 3 or 4 military technologies, unlimited military access, $10,000 to $20,000 cash AND Ruperts Land! After demanding this 10 or so times, they show up on the shores of Ruperts Land with a small army (less than 10 units) declare war and snatch the province. As it happens, I had just finished taking out the Inuits with my full stack veteran army and standby navy tranportation and they did not keep it long! And to my amazement, back home in India, most of their provinces had NO military units protecting them and the few that did had less than10 units spread between garrison and small army patrols. I on the other hand, had 4 full stack armies and every town garrisoned with 6 or more units. I decided the Mughals were even dumber than the French.

Did I mention the Spanish had wiped out the Dutch 3 times during this game and they rebeled and came back but of course all their colonies went rebel the first time so I snatched them all up quickly. And unlike any previous game to this time, the Spanish heretofore never contested any of the Thirteen Colonies provinces so I had a whole game where I had never went to war with them. Instead, this entire game the Spanish and Cherokee had spent in war trading the provinces of Florida, south Louisiana, and Texas back and forth. And so now we are about 15 turns from 1799 and I decide I have enough provinces to finish the Thirteen Colonies quest and win the game.

I park a full stack army in a Colony right next to the Cherokee province of Kentucky and the same right next to the province of Georgia and declare war on the Cherokee and "WTH" the Thirteen Colonies are allied with the Cherokee and they side with the Cherokee! Now the British Empire is allied with the Thirteen Colonies from day one in the game so I know that NOBODY can have a longer lasting alliance with them than the British so what is up with this? Now keep in mind I have already joined the Thirteen Colonies in at least 3 of their wars, against the Iroquois, the United States, and France, and I have never asked them to help me in any of my own wars. Fortunately, I had saved before I declared war so I could go back and I did and played several turns past this point hoping the the changing events of each turn would cause a different outcome in declaring war and it does not. The colonies side with the Cherokee everytime I declare war even when I do not request their help.

So, my fellow Empire wargamers, who amoung you have had this happen to you and how the dickens did you finish the Thirteen Colonies quest when they go against you in the war you need to get the quest?

[Insaniac]

I don't think a simple question like this warrants writing a book, but anyway, the Thirteen Colonies won't do ♥♥♥♥, so frankly you could just destroy them outright. But I'm fairly sure that completing the objective for the mission will cause them to join you regardless of their faction standing with you.

[The Blind One]

Wait you actually pay attention to victory conditions?

I lost my short dutch campaign in 1750 ... ya know ... cuz I didn't own New York and Flanders by 1750 according ot the victory conditions.

Thing is though ...

I controll all 20 trade nodes! I owned all of India/Persia, All of America (-13 colonies) and except for European mainland. I only had the dutch home region. So eventhough I was the most powerful and wealthiest nation in the entire world I still lost lmao.

I also lost my first Prussia campaign in 1750 as well because one of the victory condition provinces revolted literally on the turn before the end date ... rofl ... Nothing I could do to prevent it when I noticed it to safe my victory conditions You lose (arbitrarely)! Eventhough I had met all victory conditions for the past 30 years! I was just waiting and conquering the world till it would turn 1750 and still lost ... so hilariously stupid.

I rolled back 3 turns, prevented the rebellion. Got the winning video ... and realized it is entirely pointless. Nowadays I don't even pay attention to victory conditions anymore. It is entirely meaningless. I just make up my own stories as I go.

As for the Iroqous thing. No clue ...

[HEAVY FIRST RATE]

I like telling a story, and frankly I remember a time when on this forum many people would tell stories about interesting and unusual games they had just played or some corner that their play had taken them up into, and nobody complained cause we all had a love for this game and enjoyed hearing about the many avenues playing it could take you onto.

If your own attention span was too short for you to enjoy the moment of the read, I am sorry, but no one forced you to read it and I did specify I asked for help from those who love this game and may have played it enough to have encountered this particular obstacle!

It is obvious you have not encountered this particular senario, but I thank you for your opinion even though my own thoughts and the fact that I am almost out of turns to win have lead me to believe that perhaps my only chance to win this one is to attempt to take the home province of the Cherokee and the province of Georgia in the same turn in hopes that the outcome of the quest in question is hardwired reguardless of any decision made by the AI for the Thirteen Colonies during gameplay and I have done nothing during the game to make the colonies unfriendly toward me.

[The Blind One]

Let us know if that actually works. Sounds interesting to know for other players who might read this as well.

Sounds like a bad case of AI that you had to go through. Also I share your passion for the Maharathas (I call them ''The Great Rats'' because they often end up taking the tip of India and I think it kinda looks like a rats face sideways ... Of all the factions I hate the most ... I often times try to make friends with the Mughals just for that reason to spite them but they are just utterly unreasonable 10 out of 9 times. Often demanding I give them my richest region in india just for lulz, demand all my tech or some other insane thing. Bunch of ungrateful pseudo mongols I tell ya.

[HEAVY FIRST RATE]

Okay, apparently the end results of the quest is hardwired reguardless of any decision by the AI during the game. As I said earlier, I had maintained good relations with the Thirteen Colonies all during the game so that part of the quest and all other aspects of the quest were in good standing. I declared war on the Cherokee and the colonies sided with the Cherokee but I took the province of Georgia and the Cherokee home province all in the same turn and was awarded the victory screen with the colonies now belonging to me when I continued the game. So I did not have to actually fight against my own colonies.

On a side note, if I do this strategy again in the future, I definitely think I would take the Cherokee home province early in the game and just leave Georgia to them till the end because the home province is beyond the reach of a one move attack if you do not own Kentucky or have access to the Kentucky province. I only managed it because I had several cavalry units in my army so after I rushed the Kentucky province only the calvary units were able to reach the town in the Cherokee home province in the same turn and there were enough of them to take the town.