Lets Talk About Dragoons

[winged_snail]

I find I almost never use them dismounted as I usually could use more cavalry not a half strength infantry unit separated from the others. Does anyone else find much use for them in their intended role as infantry?

I've been wondering also are light infantry more accurate when dismounted? I'm assuming if nothing else they'er a bigger target while mounted.

And being as light dragoons are more accurate than non-light dragoons, in addition to having the ability to shoot while mounted, AND are cheaper, is there any advantage to non-light dragoons??

[Alwyn]

Normally, the only time I dismount dragoons is when I rush them to the far end of a fort, to dismount, climb the walls and open the gate.

This is risky because the defenders can usually beat one dismounted dragoon unit, so I usually send two units of dragoons with some melee cavalry. Both units of dragoons dismount to secure the gate and when the gate is open, the melee cavalry charge through. I try to coincide this with sending my infantry through a breach or over the walls on the near side of the fort.

As far as I know, there is no advantage to non-light dragoons. Unless I'm missing something, the only reason for recruiting non-light dragoons is because light dragoons aren't available yet.

[Rabidnid]

The biggest user of dragoons historically were the Russians. Mounting guards infantry regiments and sending along 20 dragoon regiments for a total force of 9,0000 troops was done. In game though they are completely useless. As a garrison which can dismount and move into buildings if the attacker is entirely mounted can be useful, but you can get two other units for the same price.

I'm currently playing the Russians and focusing on the infantry tech. All my cavalry is Kalmuk or Streltsi because they are just used for running down broken foes, artillery or mugging stray enemy units at 4 to 1 odds. Dragoons are so bad and so expensive that there is just no use.

With some mods the utility of dragoons change, but in vanilla they are completely useless.

[operating1]

Both prior posts make some good points about dragoons. I favor them for their garrison policing bonus and as combat troops when light dragoons are available. Have to admit that I rarely dismount any dragoons as the devs (I believe) had intended the player faithfully do. Although I do love light dragoons, they tend to be over powerful in this game. They (light dragoons) are awesome against melee units (fire, withdraw to reload---fire, withdraw to reload, ect...) wearing them down. We all see how ai ground units love to chase dragoons and cav around on the battlefield. Dragoons can be a distraction that causes the ai to send units to protect their backside and more likely their artillery. In battle-lines I use light dragoons as flankers, especially for light infantry who need to retire for rest & regrouping. Dragoons held in reserve are very useful to fill gaps in a line and protecting artillery. Regular dragoons will not fire trough friendly units when mounted, however light dragoons will do so inflicting friendly fire casualties. Also the player may notice that light dragoons have a pivoting field of fire, whereas most ground units have a fixed field of fire. As a campaign evolves I'll disband earlier dragoons to be replaced by light dragoons for utility and cheaper upkeep as mentioned above.

[winged_snail]

Цитата допису operating1:

Both prior posts make some good points about dragoons. I favor them for their garrison policing bonus and as combat troops when light dragoons are available. Have to admit that I rarely dismount any dragoons as the devs (I believe) had intended the player faithfully do. Although I do love light dragoons, they tend to be over powerful in this game. They (light dragoons) are awesome against melee units (fire, withdraw to reload---fire, withdraw to reload, ect...) wearing them down. We all see how ai ground units love to chase dragoons and cav around on the battlefield. Dragoons can be a distraction that causes the ai to send units to protect their backside and more likely their artillery. In battle-lines I use light dragoons as flankers, especially for light infantry who need to retire for rest & regrouping. Dragoons held in reserve are very useful to fill gaps in a line and protecting artillery. Regular dragoons will not fire trough friendly units when mounted, however light dragoons will do so inflicting friendly fire casualties. Also the player may notice that light dragoons have a pivoting field of fire, whereas most ground units have a fixed field of fire. As a campaign evolves I'll disband earlier dragoons to be replaced by light dragoons for utility and cheaper upkeep as mentioned above.

Yeah for my part I use almost exclusively light dragoons for cavalry because I like their ability to shoot and withdraw to load and come shoot again. They might not be as good at melee combat as dedicated cav units but I usually just run from enemy cav and lure them right across the front of infantry in square or my whole battle line and they get shot to pieces.

Right now I'm invading India as the UP and all the melee only MC units are total suckers for mounted light dragoons to shoot and run and shoot and run.

[Inardesco]

Garrison troops and I use the Light Dragoons as a harrasment unit to the enemy flanks.

Two units of dragoons can cause significant damage but at the same time they're quite vulnerable.

[Rabidnid]

Цитата допису Inardesco:

Garrison troops and I use the Light Dragoons as a harrasment unit to the enemy flanks.

Two units of dragoons can cause significant damage but at the same time they're quite vulnerable.

I use Hussars in the same role. They have increased mobility on the strategic map and have better melee for dealing with artillery and broken infantry units. With Russia Cossacks and Kalmuks do the same thing.

[Inardesco]

Higher movement range on campaign map is pointless if they're embedded in the army, since that one is dependant on the general traits.

[Rabidnid]

Цитата допису Inardesco:

Higher movement range on campaign map is pointless if they're embedded in the army, since that one is dependant on the general traits.

Nah, they are off burning down farms and killing off raiders. Not really a feature of the central European nations, but for Russia and in India it's a thing.

[operating1]

Цитата допису Rabidnid:

Цитата допису Inardesco:

Higher movement range on campaign map is pointless if they're embedded in the army, since that one is dependant on the general traits.

Nah, they are off burning down farms and killing off raiders. Not really a feature of the central European nations, but for Russia and in India it's a thing.

Before the introduction of cadence marching cav had a movement advantage, afterwards no. Because of the expense of upkeep for cav I used militia to rip up the countryside, plus they are expendable should they get caught.. Many times the ai would send providential cav after these militia, if lucky at the battle deployment phase the militia might find a building to hold up in and blow the cav away..

[Rabidnid]

Цитата допису operating1:

Цитата допису Rabidnid:

Nah, they are off burning down farms and killing off raiders. Not really a feature of the central European nations, but for Russia and in India it's a thing.

Before the introduction of cadence marching cav had a movement advantage, afterwards no. Because of the expense of upkeep for cav I used militia to rip up the countryside, plus they are expendable should they get caught.. Many times the ai would send providential cav after these militia, if lucky at the battle deployment phase the militia might find a building to hold up in and blow the cav away..

I will see, TROM messed with the tech tree. I will see how Kalmuks and hussars do with their bonus movement in vanilla. Early game they had no trouble avoiding line.

[Inardesco]

I dont see much advantage to raiding the countryside. You dont gain anything with it. The only thing I raid are trade ports and should I find more resistance than I initially thought, I might garrison a city to gain a defensive advantage and to goad the AI into attacking.

That said, you can raid both naval and land trade routes which I do in larger regions wherein you need multiple turns to reach the capital. That way, I still gain something from it.

If we could change files around to the point where you'd gain research bonus, more income and such from entering a city then I'd do this on a larger scale but to be fair, if you can fund 6 raiding parties its much cheaper to just have one army and just take regions.

[Rabidnid]

Цитата допису Inardesco:

I dont see much advantage to raiding the countryside. You dont gain anything with it.

The AI scatters troops to chase the raiders and the loss and repair of the damaged compounds impacts their income. Russia versus Sweden early game it is a factor.

[operating1]

Sorry, I differ from your conclusion about raiders. Often single or double unit raiders are a distraction to the ai, where the ai expends resources far in access of the raiders to prevent revenue loss, never mind the cost of repair to the assorted damaged infrastructure.

What I worry about is: Capturing too many regions too fast, thus creating numerous hostile neighbors, so I'll plod around the map making a nusance of myself to draw the ai away from attacking or raiding my regions under development.

Sometimes I'll send out a small stack consisting of 2 infantry, 2- 12 pounders and a cheap cav for the ai to chase. It's a ruse to keep the ai occupied while I'm trying to figure out how to get out of a tough spot in the face of far superior ai numbers.

EDIT: Should mention, raiders also reduce enemy regional growth, often stopping town development all together. If combined with blockading ports can be devastating.

[NETSCAPE]

If the maps were say, double the size, ddragoons would serve a much more important role... a race to secure the good terrain!

[Rabidnid]

Цитата допису NETSCAPE:

If the maps were say, double the size, ddragoons would serve a much more important role... a race to secure the good terrain!

Even then they are kinda useless. I've used them heavily trying to find a way to make them work and it just doesn't happen. Unless their cost is dropped to match their smaller size they will never be cost effective.

I've also just checked and my fastest unit with candescence marching is cossack infantry. The Strelki cavalry is a close second and level with the Kalmuk cavalry. Since strelki cavalry have 180 upkeep and have the policing bonus they are pretty much my standard garrison and cavalry.