Any mods that fix diplomacy?

[Fritz Bittenfeld]

Any mods that fix diplomacy so 20 turns in game you can actually sue for peace with a nation?

[Insaniac]

I don't think that's a bug. Making peace depends on a variety of circumstances.

[Inardesco]

Well, either completely destroy their economy or their army and chances are high they will accept peace. If it has been a cold war, thus no battles, then the Ai doesn't see any reasons to accept peace treaty due to no losses having been sustained by either side.

[Didz]

Not that I know of. The diplomacy aspects of this game were always broken and never fixed until Shogun 2. You can reduce the problems by keeping the Campaign Difficulty to Normal, which avoids the abitrary diplomatic penalties, but obvoiusly that affects everything else as well.

[Inardesco]

On normal difficulty the ai is more prone to declare war without the ability to back said war declaration up with military force. Whereas on higher difficulties, the moment they declare war (as long as it isn't to support an ally) they will back that declaration of war with military force/invasion.

[Didz]

Yes, but they are also far more hostile because of the arbitrary diplomatic penalties imposed by the difficulty level and so much more prone to declare war without reasonable justification. It was not unusual on harder difficulty levels to find oneself at war with the entire world within a few turns of starting a campaign.

Also of course you find nations with nothing more than a potting shed and hermit shack fielding full stack armies which makes the whole game a bit of a farce.

it basically meant that at any difficulty level above Normal the diplomatic function became a waste of code as it no longer functioned at all.

[Inardesco]

Sure, at game start you might get into a few wars. I tend to be looking for wars after 50 years due to the game's alliances being already established and my enemies vanguished.

Which would lead to the issue that was pretty existant in those days; Coalitions where you can't go to war with just 1 nation at a time (unless small) or simply face most of Europe.

Personally, the most wars I get into at game start are with neighbours whom I then take out. Not all the major powers vie for my land.

I also don't see any difficulties in utilising the diplomacy in the game on VH campaign Ai. Then agin, I've been playing on VH campaign AI that even the thought of going below that difficulty feels like cheating. I've also had no problems whatsoever in makign diplomacy work on that difficulty, never have. Countries are opportunistic at game start and then settle down further into the campaign when nations are more developed and can repel invasions more easily.

[Alwyn]

Yes, there are diplomacy mods, here are links to two:-

More reasonable diplomacy: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?689345-More-reasonable-diplomacy-mini-mod-(using-taw-s-research-into-the-territorial-expansion-problem-v10-May-16-2015)

Diplomacy almost completely fixed: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?740260-Diplomacy-almost-completely-fixed-(war-expansion-and-all)-and-actually-reasonable!

As Kumelowski said, the difficulty with making peace as we expand is part of what is meant to make the game challenging. Inardesco's experience suggests that diplomacy on VH is possible - I wonder if anyone would be willing to share tips on how to succeed in diplomacy on VH?

I can understand why people would want to play against tougher AI opponents using Very Hard difficult while still being able to have reasonable diplomacy.

For what it's worth, I usually play Empire on Hard if I'm playing a major faction or Normal if I'm playing a minor or emergent faction (unless it's a minor or emergent faction which can stand up to the big powers, such as the United States).

[Insaniac]

On VH you can allegedly exploit by giving neighboring nations military access which supposedly results in them not declaring war on you. Or perhaps sufficiently delaying it that you can figure out some defensive arrangements.

[Didz]

I think that ploy works at any difficulty level. The AI seems to value military access even when it has no need for it.

[Fritz Bittenfeld]

Most nations seem to not want peace even when it's the most favorable option, I.E. the war is a stalemate and waste of resources for both parties, or both sides suffer from economic drain that could be resolved with peace.


Does't matter that in three turns you'll be at war again because of a German minor or due to a -259 diplo relation that can't be fixed. The only time I seem t not have threats is when I can simply pay off nations with my 50,000+ income per turn, though by then the game isn't fun as there is no real threat. Even the Marathans aren't a threat if you tke their rich provinces, force a peace and wait as they crumble under economic collapse the AI can't handle, yet somehow maintain their monarchy, while the Mughals and Barbary States swap to Republic on the 5th turn every game.

[Insaniac]

Stalemate doesn't sound like a very compelling reason for someone to surrender.

[Fritz Bittenfeld]

Originally posted by Kumelowski:

Stalemate doesn't sound like a very compelling reason for someone to surrender.

How about if it's gone on and off for some 7 or so years with no major victories andonly a handful of regions being taken or retaken.


One thing that really annoys me is that Austria declared a succession war and hasn't even attempted to navally engage me, and I really don't want to devote a full army to Austria due to the Vienna rebellions.

[Insaniac]

Well how do you know it's a stalemate? Perhaps they can afford to continue the war more than you can. Again, this doesn't seem like a situation in which I'd sue for peace because if I did then that means that when I once again turned my gaze to you and wished to invade, I'd have to find a new causus belli. If I don't make peace, and I know you're not going to engage me, then I can just save you for later. Finally, if you're getting stalemated by the AI, oh man.

[Fritz Bittenfeld]

Originally posted by Kumelowski:

Well how do you know it's a stalemate? Perhaps they can afford to continue the war more than you can. Again, this doesn't seem like a situation in which I'd sue for peace because if I did then that means that when I once again turned my gaze to you and wished to invade, I'd have to find a new causus belli. If I don't make peace, and I know you're not going to engage me, then I can just save you for later. Finally, if you're getting stalemated by the AI, oh man.

It's because they always declare war turn 3 or 4 for me or I get dragged into one and want to honor my allies agree ments as a form of RPing, thus my economy is not built up or I spend too much on things like farms or cheap infantry to secure border regions. Usually I get a decent economy going by turn 15 or so where I have a good economic enough output to feel comfortable. I'll just wait for Austria to get steamrolled by Poland or Prussia like they usually do.

[Inardesco]

Originally posted by Major A. Toht:

The only time I seem t not have threats is when I can simply pay off nations with my 50,000+ income per turn

Either you are bad at war or bad at diplomacy, or bad at both.

It's simple; a stalemate means that neither side is winning or losing. So the ai doesn't care about your peace treaty, it can still win the war. Sueing for peace also means that you might be losing the war and thus the ai will continue going on.

Originally posted by Major A. Toht:

Originally posted by Kumelowski:

Stalemate doesn't sound like a very compelling reason for someone to surrender.

How about if it's gone on and off for some 7 or so years with no major victories andonly a handful of regions being taken or retaken.

This means neither side is capeable of a push, you know that the trench warfare in ww1 was like that right? And you know that neither Germany or France were sueing for peace?

It's simple; if you want peace, humiliate the enemy. Take several regions in a single turn, take out their armies, get them bankrupt (yes, you can bankrupt the ai) and they will, begrudgingly, accept peace treaties.

Usually the point where MC declares war on me I will simply blockade their ports, if no armies are available to invade, and I will simply wait till that unrest through bankruptcy reaches 8-9 and see how their armies dwindle due to being forced to disband units. By the time they accept a peace treaty, I have several invasion forces ready to go in case they're gonna give it a shot again. Which usually happens in 5-10 years.

Then I invade, take several regions in 1-2 turns, destroy some of their armies, bankrupt them by blockading port and sue for peace. They accept, only to consolidate and remobilize their forces before trying again.

This usually ends up becoming a 3-staged (4-staged war if naval blockade is required at first due to lack of armies for India) war wherein I invade, peace, push inland, peace, whipe 'm out, all of India.

No where, have I spend a single coin in getting the AI to sign for peace. It's not needed.

If you think the English and French fought every year in the 100-years war then you're mistaken. Small skirmishes here and there but not full on warfare for the entire war. Nor was it the case with the 80's year war between Spain and the United Provinces. So what if you've got a war with England as Prussia from turn 4 on. If there's no actual fighting or just some naval skirmishes then that means squat. Territory, money and armies are the things you need to take/ruin for the AI to go for peace.

After all, if a nation attacks me, takes several regions, destroys my armies, bankrupts me, then I would be thrilled at the prospect of being handed a peace treaty instead of total annihilation. So too, does the AI. Offcourse, both me and the Ai will then try to go in and reclaim old land.