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[Pexaan]

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[Makh]

The full account is really not needed tbh, it's only a bonus and to support devs. The perks of it are limited and don't really affect you deeply, some things are just a little faster.

[Quayley]

I'm actually starting to get so annoyed that all people do is talk about the OPTIONAL subscription with such lack of knowledge. I have a maxed out level 30, no subscription, you don't need it, I got it after I turned 30 to support the devs and it changes very little, they aren't some greedy game studio, its literally just 2 indie devs. The game is free to play, subscription is badly worded its not 75%-100% its 100%-125% on things like exp or gold so f2p is not a lesser experiance what so ever. The only things I can criticise however would be the limitation on friends list for free accounts at 10, thats pretty dumb I hope they chance it.

[Mieumieu]

And people leave World of Warcraft after many years of playing it. Nobody leaves because they can't afford the subscription. They are sick of the game eventually and want to play something else.

This game has a free option that is totally playable. So we have to kill a few more monsters to level up. Big deal. Geez some of you people are so cheap. You don't even need the sub but you complain anyway. It's a piddling small amount if you do feel like getting it.

You'd rather the game was full of lockboxes and that a small number of people would pay outrageous amounts of money to support you playing for free right? But the thing is you can play for free anyway, so I don't know what you really have issue with. Damned if you do damned if you don't in the free to play world. No matter what way you go people complain.

This is the small sub with minimal benefits people normally tell free to play games to do for their monetization. So they do it. And here comes people to complain anyway. People who want to leech the life out of games without putting a penny back into them. That think the entirety of it should be free to them for some reason.

It's too bad that you all get to have a vote in the ratings, but at least most people know that free to play game ratings are not always what they seem to be.

[Aindo]

The game is not pay to win. You really need to educate yourself around the differences between pay for convenience and pay to win. To be honest it's impossible for a game to be pay to win when the game has no PvP. Who are you trying to be 'win' against in a PvE game?

[GrandTickler]

Originally posted by Twitch.tv/Aindo:

The game is not pay to win. You really need to educate yourself around the differences between pay for convenience and pay to win. To be honest it's impossible for a game to be pay to win when the game has no PvP. Who are you trying to be 'win' against in a PvE game?

p2w is a term to describe the advantages one has over a free player, even if it has no pvp it can be pay to win if a free player has to spend way more time to acomplish something.
we call it pay to win since pay-to-progress-faster sounds dumb (or pay for convenience as u call it )

[Aindo]

Originally posted by GrandTickler:

Originally posted by Twitch.tv/Aindo:

The game is not pay to win. You really need to educate yourself around the differences between pay for convenience and pay to win. To be honest it's impossible for a game to be pay to win when the game has no PvP. Who are you trying to be 'win' against in a PvE game?

p2w is a term to describe the advantages one has over a free player, even if it has no pvp it can be pay to win if a free player has to spend way more time to acomplish something.
we call it pay to win since pay-to-progress-faster sounds dumb (or pay for convenience as u call it )

If that's the definition of p2w you are working from then you need to either 1. grow up or 2. get with the times. You can't in this day and age use p2w as an all encompassing term. You're logic would mean that Fortnite is p2w because you have to pay for skins.

You aren't winning anything by saving yourself some time with a subscription. Just the same as you aren't losing anything by not paying the subscription.

[Aindo]

The argument was that paying money gives you an advantage over that another player that does not pay, doesn't have. That 'something' is valued differently from one person to the next. In the case of Stein it's about nothing more than time.

Someone getting something faster than you is not pay to win. It just isn't. We could both spend 20 hours in the game and I get to level 30 and you make it level 15.....did I pay to win because I was more efficient with my time? If you don't want to pay, fine. The content is still all there for you to explore.

The person not reading here is you kid. You're just so salty you can't seem to actually discuss anything.....you just rage.

[sponaugle1987]

at least this isn't mortal online where free players never reach endgame (actual PtW)

[Haru]

Okay, so people here are half right both ways I feel. P2W usaly refers to people being able to buy things from the cash shop that gives you dramatic advantages over other players. For example gun crates in the original Combat Arms. Where you could pull perminate guns that coasted people 1000s of hours to get for 5 dollars. And they were always super over tuned. Subscription plans aren't in anyway P2W. You're playing a game for free. People leave WoW because there's no community to the game not because of the sub or "repetative" content. No community = no connection to the game. Especially when you can just buy max level characters. So, I don't really see the issue. People don't like buy invin slots or anything that gives you extra space with real money in f2p games because that leads to p2w through having the ability to make more money. I haven't played this game long enough to know but it seems fair and balanced from what I've see. People take things and don't make their own opinions either. It's really frustrating from both ends. Devs and players I assume.

[mango]

Originally posted by Twitch.tv/Aindo:

The argument was that paying money gives you an advantage over that another player that does not pay, doesn't have. That 'something' is valued differently from one person to the next. In the case of Stein it's about nothing more than time.

Someone getting something faster than you is not pay to win. It just isn't. We could both spend 20 hours in the game and I get to level 30 and you make it level 15.....did I pay to win because I was more efficient with my time? If you don't want to pay, fine. The content is still all there for you to explore.

The person not reading here is you kid. You're just so salty you can't seem to actually discuss anything.....you just rage.

So paying money to get extra bank space to store things and or sell bank tabs to players for in game gold which you can then use to purchase other 'conveniences' isn't p2w? Last I played you could clearly do this and many people did. Heck some of the people had hundreds upon hundreds of bank space which costs a "normal" non paying player tons of money/time to unlock JUST the first few tabs which dramatically go up in price.

When I played people were selling stash tabs (which you buy from the store) For the dungeon currency and other things to make some of the better end game gear and buy other "conveniences" which essentially made it so they didn't even have to leave town to get anything they needed. They could then go farm the best dungeons for the "best" loot and even those really end game dungeons dropped super rare materials. No worries because people can either sell you bank tabs for them or sell until they get enough money to buy your ridiculously overprice rare materials. NOPE, definitely no p2w there, nothing to see...move along! That is being sarcastic btw - I know it's probably hard for your little mind to grasp.

So, I ask you friend...HOW IS THAT NOT P2W?! Lmao.
FYI - Game doesn't need pvp to have p2w aspects - but even these devs said that some form of pvp is coming...so there's that.

Like the op mentioned, that is the problem with the gaming population/industry today, this is why these games will continue to do that because they can "sell" it to idiocracy ignorant reasoning like yours. So I don't blame the company, I blame the people like you for why games are screwed up today, specifically the mmo genre, for the most part.

"Pay for convenience" Pffft. What a joke.

[Handoiron]

It depends... do you think "winning" is running out of things to do and quitting the game faster??

If so, I guess it is "pay to win"/

Then again, you can get everything except for backpacks for free. And with people willing to spend money and trade them, you can even get those for free as well.

Unless you're just arguing against any monetization at all. That's just idiotic. The developers have to pay the bills somehow, otherwise there is no game at all.

It's not as if they're selling overpowered gear that you can ONLY get by paying real money. That is the classic definition of "pay to win".

[bornoflightning]

I am so sick of people wanting everything for free. Greed? really? It takes a lot of hours of work (which your unemployed ass would not understand) to make a game. Why would anyone spend hundreds of hours to make something and expect no return? The only greedy ones are people who expect everything in exchange for nothing.