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In this game, alliances > individual heroes. This is why people play Drow despite her being probably the weakest individual hunter.
You'll find that having multiple 3* heroes won't do you any good, if they don't synergise well with your existing alliances. This is why people play Ace tier heroes - not because they are necessarily individually good, but because of the ace bonus they bring to the team. 2* Aces are simply a luxury and honestly, shouldn't be part of of your game plan. Of course with the recent patch, it's much easier to roll for them now.
You level up based on the following criteria:
1) You have a hero that when added to the field, gives you a huge advantage that you need to either prevent a huge health loss, or to continue a win streak.
2) Levelling up after the round begins, so that the initial interest gets locked in
3) Your bench is getting full, and you can't afford to sell any of your benched heroes (obey 2.)
4) You are within multiples of 4 exp points of levelling up, and wouldn't really benefit from rolling for upgrades at the moment
5) You are playing a comp that needs heroes to fill up an alliance(s) for it to be any good (less relevant with the removal of 9 Elusives)
6) When losing 5 gold to level doesn't deny you interest in your next round
7) You currently have less than 20HP and desperately need an additional hero to survive (ignores interest)
The general rule of thumb is interest > everything else. Gold is king. This is a game that's somewhat RNG heavy. To mitigate the impact of RNG on the game, you're going to want to stockpile 50 gold as soon as possible to allow yourself the freedom to re-roll in the later part of the game. Unless you're extremely confident that abandoning interest for an additional hero will continue your win streak, always try to maintain gold. Never re-roll to the point of losing interest gold, unless it's gotten to the point where you're losing over 15 points of health for every loss.
How do you get 3* heroes? What is the resource you’re going to need to spend in order to get the heroes you need? That’s right, gold. And what is the number 1 way that guarantees you gold? Interest.
On the other hand, greed rolling before you hit 50 in the bank denies you guaranteed gold. How many rolls do you propose someone take per round, in your attempt to get 3* heroes early? What happens if you roll while denying yourself interest, and end up not getting the heroes you need? You get ♥♥♥♥♥♥, that’s what. Getting 3* heroes is easier said then done. You’re jumping 2 steps ahead without explaining how to get 3* heroes to begin with.
Health is important, but it should also be seen as a resource. Sacrificing health in the early game is an excellent strategy, because losses early should never take away more than 10hp. Meanwhile, you’re accumulating gold to survive the late game.
What you’re suggesting - rolling early and hoping you’ll get 3* heroes is simply a blind all-in. That strategy has never worked for me, and it should not be very effective at all if you simply run the numbers. I’m not a Lord myself, but I’m currently BB4 and I get matched against them. I’m doing fairly well for myself.
And so what if you're level 9 on round 24? Why do that at all? You only do that if you need 9 heroes on the board, or if you're so far ahead that spending gold on upgrades isn't as beneficial. Simply talking about Lords games without actually explaining why they do what they do isn't really great. There is no point in blindly emulating other players in a game that requires flexible strategy.
I’d say just about every build never relies heavily on low tier heroes. I’d say avoiding levelling just to increase your chances of rolling low tier heroes is generally a bad idea. Getting higher tier heroes is just about always better. Again, you need to properly explain how you intend to get 3* upgrades if you deny yourself interest gold to begin with.
Re-read my list of criteria. I’m not talking about blindly levelling. You only do that because you know for sure that you’re either going to play a hero, or if you need to free up space on your bench in the next round
I do not purpose re-roll early unless you have to do so to keep you alive. Upgrade to get more units on the field is what I suggest. In most of the case, leading one more unit will give a win, and keep winning is the best way to get gold to upgrade units. And it is not depend on you, but depend on how fast you enemies chose to upgrade and what you are being given.
In another way to look at on gold: For each round you stay alive further, you get 5 gold at least = full interest for a round, usually it would be a little more than that. I might roll up 30 gold on Round 18 to get a *** 1 cost unit (or 2-3 **units), because it would give me much higher return if I reach it. Of course, I might blast out and losing 10-15 gold (about 3-5 round interest), but it is a risk that can be managed.
You do what good players does and you will start to understand why they do so. Learning how to spend money
For the last question , I still don't understand as your reason make no sense. If you are sure going to play a hero next round, you do it when next round start, not after the fight begin this round. If you need free space, you just over fill the board after fight. You are making a money spending decision before you getting new info for no reason. The new information might change you plan, for example it give you 2 or 3 high cost card you need.
You said this earlier:
So which is it? Rerolling for upgrades, or levelling to get more heroes on the board? You realise you have a finite amount of gold, yes? Or are you somehow able to just get 3* heroes magically without rerolling? I don't really know what your point is right now.
Clearly I state the leveling up on certain round did I? The point is learning when to spend money and how to spend it and don't think about saving up 50 gold is a plan. It is great if you can save 50 to max your income, but 90% of time you can't do it in high rank games. Good player understand when to fight for 1st and when just try to fight for 4th or even 7 place is a win.
Consider the outcome , even if you get 30 extra gold, it give you about 10-20% chance to compete your build. Keep your heath better, give you 2 more round , increase your win rate much more than that.
You should understand, winning steak can produce more gold than interest. High level increase the chance of getting high cost (and stronger) units , that's why sometimes good players level up to 9, even putting out a second copy ** unit will get you fight much better. Plus, stop others win steak also have great value.
Watch Lord game videos is a great start.
So basically, learning how and when to spend money, which is... just about the most generic piece of advice. But apparently 50 gold generating interest a bonus 5 gold is bad? What??
Nonsense. Even a quick browsing through the current Lords streamers now would tell you that most prioritize interest because it allows for maximum flexibility. Gold is the deciding factor on how much, and how often you can upgrade.
This is essentially your plan:
1) Re-roll, lose interest
2) ???
3) Get 3* heroes and win streak. Great success!
I have never once played a single game, or am aware of any top tier player who would tell themselves that they weren't just focusing on surviving for the longest time possible. There is zero logic about "fighting" for any specific place.
This doesn't make any sense at all. Health somehow gives you better odds of completing your build? What? And did you not read what I said earlier? I said to maintain interest gold, unless losing more than 15hp per loss.
How do you even increase your win rate? By rolling for heroes or leveling, correct? Did you not read what I said earlier? I said, you can deny yourself interest, if you're confident of maintaining a win streak. You are behaving as if I said maintaining 50 gold is an absolute.
No ♥♥♥♥ maintaining a winning streak can produce more gold than interest. The question is, how the hell do you intend to maintain said winning streak? There's never any guarantee that you'll maintain a win streak. You're talking as if spending gold, and denying yourself interest in the meantime, will guarantee a win streak - it doesn't.
You know what guarantees you gold on the other hand? A literal 100% guarantee? Interest
You've probably spent too much time watching Lord games instead of playing Lord games. I'm Big Boss 4. I get matched with Lords. I know what I'm talking about.
You seem to bring up points without actually understanding them. Yes, maintaining a win streak is great. But how do you intend to do that? When is there ever any guarantee that re-rolling will get you the heroes that you want? Dafuq...??
It seems I missed this question of yours. Let me try and make it easier for you to understand:
Let's say you are at 40 gold. You are currently playing a 1* Pudge on the board, and you have just managed to roll another pudge, but you have yet to purchase it. Instead of buying the Pudge and going down to 38 gold when you have no intention of playing it, you wait until the round starts before purchasing it. You CANNOT wait for the next round to start, because a new set of heroes will then be provided.
Here's another scenario:
You are let's say 4/8 on EXP and are at 20 gold. You have a benched hero that you need to place on the board which is crucial to your comp. However, doing so requires that you spend 5 gold which would deny you interest. You also do not know if placing the hero on the board will net you a win. Or if it does net you a win, you may end up missing out on losing streak gold. You could wait for the next round to start, sure. But really, why does it matter if you already know this hero is crucial to your comp, and you're going to place it on the board to begin with?
I'm standardizing this strategy, because clearly your suggestion isn't applicable to the first scenario. It's a very strange thing for you to nitpick about, but sure.
That you said Gold is King. And you might count how many games you can keep 50 gold and for how many rounds without lossing 15 + per round? saving 30 or 40 is more common and balance.
I have 3 lord account now. If you want to move up, learn spending not saving. Because saving isn't a thing that you have to learn. The first step: keep thinking what happen if I spend this money, what's the up side and downside, risk and reward. Not, just simply consider "gold is the king", let's get to 50 and take the full interest then think about spending it.
Yes, gold is king, because it is the very foundation on which the entire game is based on. It's like you can't read. Having more gold guarantees you flexibility. Denying yourself interest and re-rolling in the hopes that you will get something you need is bad.
My suggestion is you focus on proper reading, because I never said accumulating interest is an absolute, but rather prioritized, because once again, and let me try and make this as simple for you to understand:
1. More gold = more chances to re-roll
2. More chances to re-roll = better chances of getting 3* heroes
3. Better heroes = winning
And now you're telling me: "risk and reward".
Yeah no ♥♥♥♥ risk vs reward, that's literally been my entire point. Interest is risk free, meanwhile your suggestion to blindly re-roll in the hopes of getting upgrades, or just simply so you can place more heroes on the board for no good reason, somehow makes more sense? Also, did I not make it very, very clear that sacrificing interest gold is WORTH IT if you're confident of maintaining a win streak?
I have not been matched with a single high tier player who has claimed maintaining 50 gold is impossible 90% of the time. That is utter rubbish. Instead, you seem to be under the impression that maintaining winning streaks are a hell of a lot easier than getting interest gold.
Even going on YouTube or Twitch right now would constantly show empty benches on top tier players because of them trying to accumulate interest gold.
Seriously, we could have both saved a whole lot of time here if you actually read properly and understood what I meant when I said "gold is king". The mistake many newbies make early is spending too much gold on re-rolls hoping to get something they need, and in the process screwing themselves over for the next several games. Why do you think you see so many of these morons coming here complaining about RNG?
I am at exp 4/24 (normal upgraded at 5/9), have 51 gold, already winning 3 game in roll. Should I take the you call rise free interest to stay at, or I go for a upgrade ?
First, at this very very common point, interest is not risk free. You risking 3 things.
1. your next winning income, 1 gold
2. your winning steak gold chance, somewhere greater than 0 (we talk about the number later)
3. your health lose value.
So call risk free interest only happen in(at all I can think about) :
1. you are way ahead and not one might even catch up you.
2. you are way behind that even a good re-roll or one additional units won't help you at all.
3. you are going under a losing steak plan(which is very rare now)
4. you need save up to level up as that's your only need.
I should explain what I talking about re-roll before going deep. When I said re-roll, I am not talking about risking all your interest, I am just talking about risking 1 or 2 interest total. like I am at 52 when turn start, I can take some risk to re-roll down to 45 or 40 even 39 (after purchase). I am trading about 1-2 gold to get better chance to win the fight, like in some point I have 2-3 unit waiting to get ** or one to get ***.
So, let say the exp 4/24, 51 gold, I decision process is :
1. double check the TAB and find out the chance I am winning next round if I level up and put one more unit up. Of course, it can't be 100% correct, but the better you get it , the better you play.
2. I find out that I can quite certainly beat 6 players but might still lose to one, like 70% or so, then I come up the following EV (Expect Value like poker).
Interest gain without spending: 5*4=20 (if you don't level up now, you won't go until 8/24)
Interest with after spending , only consider worse case next 4:
2+3+3+4+2(losing steak or winning money) =14
Risk of gold lose total: 6 max/4 = 1.5 each round.
Winning after level up: 1 winning gold, assign 3 gold value for win steak (the formula to valuing win steak is different for each player, but I consider 3 is the lowest). =4
Chance of happening= 6 out 7 , so 85.71% chance I gain 4 gold or 3.47 net.
Chance of losing= 14.29%, cost of losing : 1.5 golds, 0.21435 net
Add up and round down, 3.25 gold gain is my net ev just by gold.
The 3.25>3, so for the following round, leveling up is better.
Sure, if you want to compete the full rundown, you would have to run the chance of you get the win without spending, so are in fact getting a net 4 gold+3 interest clear better then spending. This chance is not zero for sure, but also we have to consider health value, dmg value, stop other winning gold value. I won't able to go that deep, not here , not now.
For those of you who like, you can pull up a excel sheet and using the method to do so.
Also, it just a raw rundown, might be the number or method is not very good, or it is hard to read as I am not native Eng speaker. But the point is clear: interest is not always risk free. Gold value can be count down using the EV method same like Poker. (As I am also a long time poker player in holdem and Omaha)
For a easy line, more high rank game maintain the bank from 30-50, it is OK for a little trade off , as long as your still above 30 in gold, you are not going broke.
I had hardly remember come back with saving interest in a losing game. But I did remember toll down all my 50 in 18 and getting back to the fight.
When you state "1. More gold = more chances to re-roll", which is true.
But please don't forget "more HP=more chances to re-roll and free re-roll". Even some level up won't give you a win, but it might save you 10 HP, which also a considerable action, always.
I didn't mention anything about blindly setting interest. In fact, I mentioned several criteria to spending gold for leveling up - which is what OP was asking about in the first place. Had he asked about re-rolls, I would've went more in-depth about it, but he didn't, which is why I didn't go into specifics.
Since you're basically repeating everything I said earlier about learning how to spend gold. I'll talk about something else you mentioned: winning streaks.
And let's be honest here. The math is simple. Since you talked about winning streak gold being more than interest gold, let's take a look at the kind of win streaks you need for that:
3 wins = +1
5 wins = +2
7 wins = +3
8 wins = +4
You mentioned staying at 30 gold instead of 50. This would mean that you would have to get a streak of 5 wins in order for that to net you any profit.
Now let me ask you this, since you talk about watching Lord games. How often do you see Lords, or even any players, manage to pull off a 5 win streak? You are playing against 7 other players, and are subject to RNG. Firstly, there's no guarantee you'll roll for a hero you need. On top of that, you need to only lose to 1 of the other players, and there goes your win streak. You'd then be wondering why you didn't just take the safer route in going for interest in the first place.
As I mentioned before, if you can get a 5 win streak, great. But the math here is self explanatory. Win streak gold is dependent on what the other 7 players are doing. Interest gold on the other hand, is dependent only on the gold you've accumulated.
If you're telling me you can consistently get 5 win streaks, and according to you, "90% of time" you can't accumulate 50 gold and maintain a safe level of HP, then there's nothing more to say here because you obviously can't calculate basic probability, and have no clue what you're talking about.
You keep avoid the HP= gold value fact. Plus ,you are eating the 1 winning gold. The match is not simple. Just talking winning steak, your math is also wrong.
I roll down from 50 to 30, my interest grow on next 3 round is
3+3+4 =10, 5 less then 5*3, or if I am just end up at 32 or sell 1 unit, which I get back 40 at next turn, then it just be 4. If there are nature wave in between (as we are talking about re-roll, not upgrade), then it can be down to even 3(no interest in nature) .
And if I take 3 wins in next 3 round, 3+4+5=13, the pure gold value even at the 4 wins. Or I just adjust at not 30 but 31/32 (at we might start at 53 or 51 roll down), which become 4+4+5=14, tiny profit at 4 wins. Not counting the HP value.
Even say I stay at 3 for a while like 3 rounds, I am looking at about 10 gold lose, but it might save me 10 HP or so, it in need should be a considerable action.
Also, if talking about leveling up exp, the math change, since the re-roll might have 0 return(roll nothing), Leveling up have value.
So , clear, whenever you are up 30 in gold, you should consider action other than saving up.
I am not saying 90% of the time I can win, but for a single fight, winning odd can be (but not easy) counted. And there are windows you can quite sure your next couple fight outcome. You know your very unlikely meet the same player you met last time. You can quite sure you will able to beat certain number of players (in certain time window of course) , you make your movement base on your judgement and the outcome would tell how good you are.
Yes, taking interest is safe and easy clear, you know what you get. But don't let it stop you from doing some more aggressive action will give you a bigger return. There are windows for attack, I would chose to risk some to take it down.
Gold don't take you to win, HP does. If everyone saving, you can also slow down. But now, game is very fast, everyone is leveling up, then you have to catch up.