about Deep Mines

[sephichen]

So really why does a mine with heavy tools, that cost a ton of money and ressources, and on top of that double the manpower of a normal mine, yet still only gives out half the output?
I mean the idea was that you don't have to expand in great distances, just to keep up producing the ores that you need.
But by the time the normal mines are empty and you have to rely on those deep mines you are practically doomed, since you can't keep up producing as much gold, iron whatever to just keep the supply on the same level as before.
In all honesty I call this stupid.
With heavy tools and double the manpower it should put out double the amount as before and not half of it. What is the reason behind that?
It's just gameplay haltering up to a point that the outpost managing just for ores gets completely frustrating.
Really I hope that modders do a better job in balancing those deep mines or multiply the ressource outcome for convenience.

Also yes I know there is trading and yeah you make lots of gold that way but it is random. In prices and products. Sadly an industry can't really rely on that.
And I don't know how the ordering system would change that. Like what if the trader has iron but only 100 and not the 200 you need to last for a year?

Anyway I feel like the deep mine output can and should be balanced so it feels actually worthwile building and maintaining them. Right now it is better to build a normal mine reaaaaaally far away and that just doesn't feel right.

[madracc00n]

The idea is:Different maps have different resourcec.Deep mines are there in case u dont have alot of them on the map,so u can get some income in the late game anyway.

[Zantai]

Deep Mines are an endgame bottomless resource for those that want to run their town unto infinity. The are not there to supplant the smaller deposits, which are still the most efficient (but finite) way to get resources.

By the time you need deep mines, you should have plenty of excess laborers to run them.

[sephichen]

The problem is not about enough laborers. The problem is that there is not enough output.
With such a low output one can't run their town infinitely since
-> the attackers are still getting greater in numbers
-> your defense needs improvement hence more money
and without having like 4 infinite gold mines nearby you can't easily expand anymore at all since that would not even cover 2 normal gold mines.

The game stops beeing a game and instead work if you want to continue.

So if there isn't a reconsidering in balance for deep mine outputs... mods will have to save the game for me here.

[Groovy]

Originally posted by sephichen:

The problem is not about enough laborers. The problem is that there is not enough output.
With such a low output one can't run their town infinitely since
-> the attackers are still getting greater in numbers
-> your defense needs improvement hence more money
and without having like 4 infinite gold mines nearby you can't easily expand anymore at all since that would not even cover 2 normal gold mines.

The game stops being a game and instead work if you want to continue.

So if there isn't a reconsidering in balance for deep mine outputs... mods will have to save the game for me here.

not true. I had/have no mines and no deep mines on my map and I am
swimming in gold with 1.4 million on year 171. Deep mines were just added
and never needed. If I added a deep gold (I can't there are none on my map)
I would have like 2 million gold. Which would not help at all since I can't
spend the gold fast enough already.

simply put learn how to play better. If I can do it anyone can. I am on the toughest
map on vanquisher setting and I fond it too easy. Forget about mines there are not needed.

[Delta-9]

^^^

*Git Good* lol

On a serious note, What do you sell to the trader? I make most of my gold from selling clothing/soap/candles etc. I dont sell much food as it doesnt bring a high price usually, and I feel like my people need it more. (even if it spoils) Cheese can bring a good little chunk since I seem to swim in cheese. And, honey can do well. I keep all wax for candle making. And, once you start making beer it can bring a lot because you'll make alot if you have the honey and grain.

Anyway, set up a small field that grows nothing but flax, and as many tailors as you can. (I build 2 buildings) You can make it rich just off that.

[SgtScum]

Traders sooner or later offer all the finite resources and you should have the gold income from trade and markets to buy all you ever need. Deep mines are simply there as a trickle income so you don't have to completely rely on traders when your finite stuff runs out. The finite stuff is what should be getting you to the point of self sufficiency anyways where deep mines trickle income is sufficient with the odd trade purchase.

[DiViNe NeKO]

I use deep mines for Coal/Gold/Stone/Clay , you dont really need sand or iron since there is so much of it around map most of time

[[MT] Foxtai]

Originally posted by Groovy:

Originally posted by sephichen:

The problem is not about enough laborers. The problem is that there is not enough output.
With such a low output one can't run their town infinitely since
-> the attackers are still getting greater in numbers
-> your defense needs improvement hence more money
and without having like 4 infinite gold mines nearby you can't easily expand anymore at all since that would not even cover 2 normal gold mines.

The game stops being a game and instead work if you want to continue.

So if there isn't a reconsidering in balance for deep mine outputs... mods will have to save the game for me here.

not true. I had/have no mines and no deep mines on my map and I am
swimming in gold with 1.4 million on year 171. Deep mines were just added
and never needed. If I added a deep gold (I can't there are none on my map)
I would have like 2 million gold. Which would not help at all since I can't
spend the gold fast enough already.

simply put learn how to play better. If I can do it anyone can. I am on the toughest
map on vanquisher setting and I fond it too easy. Forget about mines there are not needed.

This is such a dumb comment. It does not matter how much gold you are swimming in. At year 51, I am at end-game and have a positive income of gold, but even with all the traders that come through, they dont even come close to fixing my iron issues.. and no amount of gold will ever fix that. What matters is the resources that you can pull in to sustain your town. Mines are going to run out and you will eventually have nothing close-by except for those deep mines, and those deep mines dont even come close to sustaining a town. The deep mines are rare enough, so I see absolutely no reason why production should be reduced over an regular iron mine, and players should be rewarded for setting up a settlement near one and investing time to get to the point of profiting from it, not being punished for it.

I for one was very excited to get to that point after days of playing, and justified the amount of people needed by thinking that the output would be equal or even greater than the finite mines, and all the iron issues that have plagued me for all of the game would finally be solved... yeah, no. I immediately pulled out of that mine directly inside my town to favor an iron mine that is on the other side of a large map, which still produced quite a bit more than what was directly in town. What logic this is I will never know.

Honestly, poor decision making and bad design on the development team's part. The building is end-game for a reason.

[garthurbrown]

It's a trade off. You get infinite output but it comes at a slower rate. Do you think Deep Mines should work faster? That wouldn't make sense.

[jcmeerman]

According to the dev: "Deep Mines are an endgame bottomless resource for those that want to run their town unto infinity."

This basically means that the deep mines should make your town self-sufficient. And that means that their output should be high enough to never needing the trader. Else, the intention of the dev is not met in the current design. Now it could be that the deep mine is very labour-intensive. Or expensive. Fine. But its output should be high enough to supply a good sized town.

Alternatively, the dev could implement that you can order specific goods and quantities in the trade hub. For a premium of course :)

Note to Garthurbrown: I would expect that a mine where heavy tools are used is more productive than a mine with light tools. Maybe not per laborer, but definitively per day.

[garthurbrown]

The heavy tools are needed to extract the ore, which is harder to get to than a surface mine. These aren't upgraded regular mines.

But also, why are gold mines less productive than iron mines? This is also true in the real world.

[ungamer]

Originally posted by jcmeerman:

According to the dev: "Deep Mines are an endgame bottomless resource for those that want to run their town unto infinity."

This basically means that the deep mines should make your town self-sufficient. And that means that their output should be high enough to never needing the trader. Else, the intention of the dev is not met in the current design. Now it could be that the deep mine is very labour-intensive. Or expensive. Fine. But its output should be high enough to supply a good sized town.

Alternatively, the dev could implement that you can order specific goods and quantities in the trade hub. For a premium of course :)

Note to Garthurbrown: I would expect that a mine where heavy tools are used is more productive than a mine with light tools. Maybe not per laborer, but definitively per day.

heavy tools for deep mine are needed because it is A DEEP mine, so light tools are not enough to dig hard ground, so it is real thing. (heavy tool doesnt always mean more productive thing ,, sometimes it means harder conditions and no other way without it to do something, so it takes more labor and time to get even less, but have some)

by the way , for example if you need coal , did you know that there are infinite coal without mines ? just use trees to make coal, will be more profitable than deep mine, why does it make sense to use deep mine ?
as for me - after i decided not to use infinite resources , there is no problem
trade or get from regular mines is enough. just play more and get better strategy to get money with goods selling to get resources that you need from traders.

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by ungamer:

by the way , for example if you need coal , did you know that there are infinite coal without mines ? just use trees to make coal, will be more profitable than deep mine, why does it make sense to use deep mine ?

This is incredibly inefficient. You have to have employ villagers to cut trees, turn the trees into firewood, and two firewood get you one coal. You can only have 4 people working in a charcoal kiln at a time, so you'll need to build several.

A fully staffed deep coal mine takes 16 workers but gets you ~250 coal per yer.
4 charcoal kilns fully staffed is 16 workers get you about the same output, but that's not counting the people you are employing to chop the firewood and cut down the trees in order to get it.

The only reason to use charcoal kilns is when you don't have easy access to coal mines or deep coal mines.

[ungamer]

Originally posted by garthurbrown:

Originally posted by ungamer:

by the way , for example if you need coal , did you know that there are infinite coal without mines ? just use trees to make coal, will be more profitable than deep mine, why does it make sense to use deep mine ?

This is incredibly inefficient. You have to have employ villagers to cut trees, turn the trees into firewood, and two firewood get you one coal. You can only have 4 people working in a charcoal kiln at a time, so you'll need to build several.

A fully staffed deep coal mine takes 16 workers but gets you ~250 coal per yer.
4 charcoal kilns fully staffed is 16 workers get you about the same output, but that's not counting the people you are employing to chop the firewood and cut down the trees in order to get it.

The only reason to use charcoal kilns is when you don't have easy access to coal mines or deep coal mines.

after some point i have enough free laborers to turn them to people needed to make coal, and no problem , and no need to have a deep mine , especially when you dont have such on the map.
ofc i got the idea, but there is always another way.
and again - trading is one of the most important things in FF , it's better to learn how to trade than try to find everything you need near the settlement, sometimes there could be a few resources with low quantity , so trading is crucial in this game

[...loading name]

i hope for a mod changeing that, seems devs will not listen. I think its rather stupid.

Historically many fought over mines, its so silly that in this game its better to spend the manpower into making kandles and selling through market than mining gold. LOL

At least balance it till its even.