Can't get enough hides

[Olleus]

Is there a way of large amounts of hide in this game? I've got an upgraded Hunter's Lodge (with 4 traps) for each herd of deer in the game and that's barely enough to keep up with coats and shoes. If I try to make armour, or shields, or anything else, I start to have serious shortages.

Ranching animals barely seems to make a difference (I have a shed full of cows, and am growing a goat one) because they breed so slowly. Traders rarely seem to have them, and only in small quantities. Adding more hunters leads to herds depleting dangerously fast. Am I grossly underestimating how many animals I should be raising? Are goats or cows better? Is there a rule of thumb for a cow (or goat) to villagers ratio?


As an aside, I think that too many production chains in the game rely to heavily on hides: both for gameplay and immersion reasons. Leather was simply not a particularly common material for making textiles (flax and wool dominated it) at any point in history: no one in the middle ages wore modern biker and BDSM gear (as far as we know, at least). While adding sheeps and wool into the game would be very natural, I think that a lot of the production lines could be tweaked to balance the use of different resources a little better:

• Add a clod inspired alternative to shoes available from an upgraded cobbler: 1 wood -> 1 clod (compares to 1 hide -> 2 shoes)
  
• Add a lower quality armour called Gamberson (half as effective as Hauberks, only wearable by guards, archers, and light infantry) that weavers can make for 15 Flax and 1 leather a piece
  
• Replace the leather in Hauberks with flax so the recipe becomes 12 Iron, 12 Flax, 4 Coal
  
• Replace the Hide in Platemail with Flax at the same ratio. Oh, and rename it just to Plate or Harness, "mail" means interlinking rings so platemail is nothing but a 19th C contradiction.

Note that I'm replacing hides with a larger quantity of wood or flax for balance because those are far less valuable resources. This means that hides will still be necessary for coats shields, and books; an option for shoes and early game armour, but not a necessity for late game combat gear.

[Zephyr]

I would guess that leather was used primarily for armor and working clothes, something like a smiths apron. Pelts were most likely for the nobility. Sure, for the peasant folk ist was whool and flax mostly.

In the game the best way for pelts are upgraded hunters. You can build such a hunter anywhere (or put the work area anywhere), no deer required :). I have usually at least 4-5 hunters upgraded for 600-700 ppl who will only lay traps to get hides, no hunting :). At this point they do not matter that much for food anymore and I use them purely as trappers then. Barns are much better for meat and milk/cheese as food, not so much for hides (they only support there).

[Olleus]

Originally posted by Zephyr:

I would guess that leather was used primarily for armor and working clothes, something like a smiths apron. Pelts were most likely for the nobility. Sure, for the peasant folk ist was whool and flax mostly.

Leather aprons possibly, but leather armour just wasn't a thing. There are some cuirasses of cuire bouilli but they were never very common and treated in such way that they didn't resemble normal leather at all being rigid. Leather certainly wasn't used as a padding behind mail or plate armour either (which is presumably why its needed for Hauberks and Plate in game): this was done by having multiple layers (typically quilted) of wool, flax, or other textiles. The trope of leather jackets being used as light armour is almost 100% a modern fantasy without basis in real history.

But historical realism is not the main point here. It's that hides are overly necessary in the game compared to the ability to produce it, and it's a "tier 1" resource which increases in importance with progression. My 5 upgraded hunters with traps can't cope with 450 villagers without even trying to make armour or books. I don't find it great fun that hunter-gather resources you start getting on day 1 of year 1 are what is limiting my mines, foundries, and armouries from making stuff. No other resource in the game works like that.

[LadyMiska]

With regard to Livestock, once you have a breeding Pair you don't need to purchase anymore from the Merchants at the Trading Post.

Just build another Barn/Coop and then Split the Livestock Herd and send however many you want from Heard A to create the new Herd B.

I agree with Zephyr on the upgraded Hunter.

I haven't and won't upgrade them all. I just have several upgraded.

I actually discovered the 'Pelt Increase' when I upgraded the first Hunter I upgraded.

I have an outpost way out on the fringe of the Fog where there are several Wolf Dens where Bears spawn also. I built a Tower out there and two Hunters. After upgrading one of the Hunters I saw a noticeable Spike in Pelts and with only One Trap. I plan to increase Traps there soon.

I Recommend looking around for Wolf Dens, then building a Tower close by making sure the Dens are within the Tower's Circle. During construction, some Builders will be Killed. It can take some time to finally get the tower setup BUT once you do, you have a running supply of Meat and Hides.

I also recommend first building Two Hunters somewhere else, then Move them both and then start the construction of the Tower. This way, at least the Builders will have more protection while building. Then once the two Builders and Tower are setup, upgrade one of the Hunters.

Just my .02 :)

[Cotaks]

Originally posted by Olleus:

My 5 upgraded hunters with traps can't cope with 450 villagers without even trying to make armour or books.

5 basic hunters are more then enough to supply 2x cobbler and 2x shirts buildings producing at full speed, then the trader will take the tons of surplus you create.

I'm at year 80 or so, town tier 4 houses as well, 600+ people and im selling like 400 skins a year to keep space in my storages.

Make sure you have tools, hunter use tools to butcher/skin the animals. As i said don't upgrade hunters, shooting a deer gives meat, tallow and hides, setting traps waste a lot of time that the hunter could kill a deer.

Another thing, deer spawns with 6+ deers can fully suply 2 hunter cabins. So add more hunters per deer spot if possible, in a fullgrown forest 5+ will do, in open fields you need atleast 6+ per spot.

[Olleus]

Hmm, I'm clearly doing something inefficient with my hunters then. Tools maybe the problem, or perhaps logistics, will try different stuff out.

[Olleus]

Originally posted by Cotaks:

Make sure you have tools, hunter use tools to butcher/skin the animals. As i said don't upgrade hunters, shooting a deer gives meat, tallow and hides, setting traps waste a lot of time that the hunter could kill a deer.

Another thing, deer spawns with 6+ deers can fully suply 2 hunter cabins. So add more hunters per deer spot if possible, in a fullgrown forest 5+ will do, in open fields you need atleast 6+ per spot.

So my hunters all have tools, and I've reduced the number of traps they have. Still no improvement. However they're wasting a lot of time: 20% idle, 30% meeting basic needs, 15% transferring good, and only 35% actually working... I've placed my lodges closeish to the deer, within spitting distance of a temporary shelter and a well. I'm guessing that's not a good way to do it?

[Cotaks]

Originally posted by Olleus:

Originally posted by Cotaks:

Make sure you have tools, hunter use tools to butcher/skin the animals. As i said don't upgrade hunters, shooting a deer gives meat, tallow and hides, setting traps waste a lot of time that the hunter could kill a deer.

Another thing, deer spawns with 6+ deers can fully suply 2 hunter cabins. So add more hunters per deer spot if possible, in a fullgrown forest 5+ will do, in open fields you need atleast 6+ per spot.

So my hunters all have tools, and I've reduced the number of traps they have. Still no improvement. However they're wasting a lot of time: 20% ideal, 30% meeting basic needs, 15% transferring good, and only 35% actually working... I've placed my lodges closeish to the deer, within spitting distance of a temporary shelter and a well. I'm guessing that's not a good way to do it?

ideal distance depends on 1 or more cabins used per spot.

with 1 then ideal distance is half the circle away from the spot
with 2 then ideal distance is ateast a full circle away from the spot.

circle = the hunters work area circle

- Dont use temp shelters, their only for mines and logging camps.
- Build a well near the hunter cabin(s)
- don't want them to walk for food/firewood, then build a cart building and build a market near your hunters cabin(s)

Smokehouses and laborers will haul meat from hunters to smokehouses/storages. Smokehouses and storages build them in your city where ever you want them.

But you just need enough arrows, bows and tools. basic hunter cabin is fine no upgrade needed.

[chef]

To add to what Lady Miska has brought up. I usually march out a few soldiers out to a couple of boar areas so the builders can construct a tower and hunter's cabin throw in a smoker and you will have a meat and hide machine. once the tower is up remove the soldiers to the barracks. You may need extra capacity if you build near two fair sized dens of boars.

[KO]

From my experience, the ideal numbers that tier 1 hunters should be getting in a year is 240 meat, 10 hides. Anything less should warrant a closer look.

[Deus Vult]

Originally posted by Olleus:

• Add a lower quality armour called Gamberson

Wtf is a gamberson?

[風鈴]

Originally posted by Olleus:

Is there a way of large amounts of hide in this game? I've got an upgraded Hunter's Lodge (with 4 traps) for each herd of deer in the game and that's barely enough to keep up with coats and shoes. If I try to make armour, or shields, or anything else, I start to have serious shortages.
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The wolf den needs to be carefully protected and not cleared. It is an important source of leather as your population grows into the thousands.

[Olleus]

Originally posted by Deus Vult:

Originally posted by Olleus:

• Add a lower quality armour called Gamberson

Wtf is a gamberson?

*Gambeson

It was a hugely common, relatively cheap, medieval armour made of layers of padded linen, cotton, or wool quilted together. Image a duvet, fill each of the "pockets" with as much textile as you can, stitch it all tightly, and shape it as a jacket. The lighter versions could be worn underneath chainmail to provide some cushioning effect against the percussive effects of heavy blows, and the thicker ones as standalone armour which provides moderately good protection against cuts and lighter thrusts.


As for the actual topic of the thread, I started a new settlement and this time hunting is giving me an insane amount of resources. Even at 400 pop I'm getting more than half my food from meat, and more hides than I know what to do with. Having lots of deer spawned close to my village, and so cutting down on commute time, made a huge difference. I think in my first game I was unlucky by just how little hunting there was.

[Cotaks]

Originally posted by Olleus:

I think in my first game I was unlucky by just how little hunting there was.

A good thing to do is build a barn ASAP, in any playtrough.

[Olleus]

Originally posted by Cotaks:

Originally posted by Olleus:

I think in my first game I was unlucky by just how little hunting there was.

A good thing to do is build a barn ASAP, in any playtrough.

Meh, it's a big investment: the animals can be pricey (or it can take a long time if you don't request them), the barn itself requires tons of planks at a time when they're in short supply, and it eats into your food supply. If hunting is plentiful, barns can be delayed IMO. I'd go so far as to say it's one of the very few buildings in the game which is optional.

[Cotaks]

Originally posted by Olleus:

Originally posted by Cotaks:

A good thing to do is build a barn ASAP, in any playtrough.

Meh, it's a big investment: the animals can be pricey (or it can take a long time if you don't request them), the barn itself requires tons of planks at a time when they're in short supply, and it eats into your food supply. If hunting is plentiful, barns can be delayed IMO. I'd go so far as to say it's one of the very few buildings in the game which is optional.

Early game it's optional, late game it's a must have, 2+ of them atleast. Meat is the most common food, out of the 4 types you need to upgrade your houses. A barn also produces milk witch you can turn into cheese, it will become your number 2 food type. So a barn actually meets half your food varity.

Food and wood for barn is a 1 time thing, 3 cows makes a baby every year, so you dont really need to buy 10/20 cows, just 3 or 4 to start, that's why you want to build a barn asap. At a farm field that does flax and hay, now you can make clothing and supply your barn for low cost/upkeep.

At 650+ people and 8+ deerspots whit 2 hunter each, they can't keep up with meat demand.