The order is all Wrong!

[Harry Napel]

T2 Windmill requires heavy tools that come from a T3 forge. This is one of MANY examples of the building tiers not making any fkin sense.

You can make all the T2 resource buildings before being able to make the T2 resource pits that you get the resources from. There are so many things like this that make absolutely no sense. Getting to the point of smelting iron bars is way more complicated and backwards that it should be.

[Teralitha]

When you have a building that is not available yet, hover your mouse over them and it tells you the requirements. Often they require that another building be built first.

[xScaramouchx]

Buy them from a trader.

[SgtScum]

One of the traders typically has heavy tools and other useful items especially for a budding town. Make sure that the t2 industry is making stuff that the trader also wants to buy so you can basically trade your good for the tools.

[Harry Napel]

Originally posted by Teralitha:

When you have a building that is not available yet, hover your mouse over them and it tells you the requirements. Often they require that another building be built first.

I don't think you understand my complaint. I fully understand how to see a building's requirements to build. I'm saying the order that you unlock the buildings is backwards.

First thing to unlock in resources is the means to collect it. For instance, a clay pit should be unlocked BEFORE the pottery building. I should be able to make a foundry, BEFORE being able to make an armory.

Think about it logically... if you were out in the wilderness "unlocking tech", you wouldn't "discover" how to make an iron shield before knowing how to smelt iron ore into bars.

Does that make sense now?

[Nuprin Feelgood]

think of it as less of a tech tree, and more of 'your city unlocking the ability' to host higher industry. for example you can build a pub, but dont get brewery until next tier. makes sense since you can import beer, and maybe your little town aint ready for a brewery.
at least thats how i think the devs are framing it. and it is different from the common approach of games like this. doesnt mean its wrong. do I like it, nope. i agree with the op, but it is what it is and presumably by design.

[SgtScum]

Originally posted by Harry Napel:

Originally posted by Teralitha:

When you have a building that is not available yet, hover your mouse over them and it tells you the requirements. Often they require that another building be built first.

I don't think you understand my complaint. I fully understand how to see a building's requirements to build. I'm saying the order that you unlock the buildings is backwards.

First thing to unlock in resources is the means to collect it. For instance, a clay pit should be unlocked BEFORE the pottery building. I should be able to make a foundry, BEFORE being able to make an armory.

Think about it logically... if you were out in the wilderness "unlocking tech", you wouldn't "discover" how to make an iron shield before knowing how to smelt iron ore into bars.

Does that make sense now?

Pretty sure this is on purpose to simulate how a real life starting settlement would need imported tools to do some tasks since they didn't have the required advanced industry to make it themselves. Remember you start the game with a finite set of normal tools and other supplies without which it would be impossible to even build the town hall? People need to get used to the fact that the trade house is an integral part of the entire simulation and not just a tacked on function to make some extra gold. Some things will require using the trade house at least in the beginning.

[Harry Napel]

Originally posted by Nuprin Feelgood:

think of it as less of a tech tree, and more of 'your city unlocking the ability' to host higher industry. for example you can build a pub, but dont get brewery until next tier. makes sense since you can import beer, and maybe your little town aint ready for a brewery.
at least thats how i think the devs are framing it. and it is different from the common approach of games like this. doesnt mean its wrong. do I like it, nope. i agree with the op, but it is what it is and presumably by design.

I'm glad at least you agree with me on the point. I'm sure any of us could RP out some fringe concept to explain the current design, but at the end of the day it's stupid and should be changed. Hopefully the devs change it to a system that makes more sense, and avoid taking a "different approach" on basic mechanics that only leave you scratching your head in frustration.

I'm a big fan of taking a new approach on things, but not for basic fundamental things such as build order being logical. Otherwise you are just messing with people for the sake of challenge that doesn't give you the "I overcame a challenge" feeling at the end. It leaves you with more of a ♥♥♥♥ and ball torture feeling.

[CraziFuzzy]

I do like that it takes bringing in things via trade - they just need to fix the trade (like at least notifying when a trader is arriving or leaving).

[Buntkreuz]

Originally posted by Nuprin Feelgood:

think of it as less of a tech tree, and more of 'your city unlocking the ability' to host higher industry. for example you can build a pub, but dont get brewery until next tier. makes sense since you can import beer, and maybe your little town aint ready for a brewery.
at least thats how i think the devs are framing it. and it is different from the common approach of games like this. doesnt mean its wrong. do I like it, nope. i agree with the op, but it is what it is and presumably by design.

I think it makes sense EXCEPT in terms of beer brewing.
I was totally fine with heavy tools and all that fuzz, but having grain/wheat, honey and water, i kind of have to ask why the heck i cant brew beer until far too late into the game although i could have a pub already.

Im totally fine to trade what my map doesnt offer.
Oh my map has no iron? Fine, let me trade that in with a trade route, i dont care.
But hey i have all ingredients to brew beer but i cant because...
Nah, sorry, thats dumb.
The Brewery is possibly the only building that makes no sense.
If you want then have two different breweries. One early one and a Tier 2 one. Tier 3 could be wine.
Thats fine.

[SgtScum]

Originally posted by Harry Napel:

I'm sure any of us could RP out some fringe concept to explain the current design, but at the end of the day it's stupid and should be changed.

What is not logical about a budding settlement needing to import something to advance their tech? Again you start with a wagon full of things you can't make yourself until you use them to make the buildings that allow you to advance. Once a year someone shows up with heavy tools and this is how you get to your tier 3 items. Real world settlements had to do the exact same thing to thrive and grow. Think of it as the old sci fi adage of you don't have the technology to make the machines to replicate our technology but we can give you some pre made stuff to make machines with your tech which can make the machines to replicate our technology.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by Harry Napel:

T2 Windmill requires heavy tools that come from a T3 forge. This is one of MANY examples of the building tiers not making any ♥♥♥♥ sense.

It is like that on purpose. It is meant to force you to learn to buy and sell with traders. That's where you have to get your first heavy tools from.

[Harry Napel]

Originally posted by SgtScum:

Originally posted by Harry Napel:

I'm sure any of us could RP out some fringe concept to explain the current design, but at the end of the day it's stupid and should be changed.

What is not logical about a budding settlement needing to import something to advance their tech? Again you start with a wagon full of things you can't make yourself until you use them to make the buildings that allow you to advance. Once a year someone shows up with heavy tools and this is how you get to your tier 3 items. Real world settlements had to do the exact same thing to thrive and grow. Think of it as the old sci fi adage of you don't have the technology to make the machines to replicate our technology but we can give you some pre made stuff to make machines with your tech which can make the machines to replicate our technology.

Ok... how about having the pottery building before clay pits? Do u think that's "logical" as well?

[Orgull]

Not once in four towns have I yet seen a trader who sells heavy tools. I sat for four years once just waiting, watching every trader come and go. No heavy tools. I have yet to see one in game.

[Harry Napel]

Originally posted by Teddy:

Not once in four towns have I yet seen a trader who sells heavy tools. I sat for four years once just waiting, watching every trader come and go. No heavy tools. I have yet to see one in game.

That is exactly what prompted my initial post, I was year 15, not a single heavy tool trader.

[Orgull]

Originally posted by Harry Napel:

Originally posted by Teddy:

Not once in four towns have I yet seen a trader who sells heavy tools. I sat for four years once just waiting, watching every trader come and go. No heavy tools. I have yet to see one in game.

That is exactly what prompted my initial post, I was year 15, not a single heavy tool trader.

Yep. 12.8 hours played and have not yet seen a single heavy tools. If they're going to make progress dependent on a specific item, the item needs to actually be available.