Flaws in wines (mercaptane, oxidation etc.)

[tomh]

Where do the flaws like mercaptane, oxidation etc. come from?

It's super annoying not having any information about this. How am I supposed to know how to avoid flaws?

[Moroulia]

Hi there!
I have found that the flaws resemble what happens IRL in wine making. It takes a lot of googling and unserstanding of chemistry/biology etc... the game is actually pretty realistic in this sense so I can share some basic tips I think I figured out.

Doing a small punch-down on Barb helps prevent Mercaptan (a specific type of "reduction" that happens due to lack of oxygen exposure. Mercaptan has sulfites, as do onion and garlic).

I THINK doing too long of a fermentation on Char is causing either reduction or mercaptan in my game. Cannot say with certainty yet. I also think that maybe not aging Char helps? I also read online that some pesticide sprays have sulfur, but I do not know if the game is programmed to account for timing your spray treatment prevention so at this point I am purely speculating.

Oxidation IRL happens due to too much oxygen exposure. Uncertain which step leads to this HOWEVER I believe using dark and green bottles helps prevent this. Could be also too much punch-down on Barb? A minimal punch down seems to work well for Barb to avoid both oxidation (too much oxygen) AND Mercaptan (too little oxygen). Also, be sure to use green or dark bottles. Using clear bottles might be leading to your oxidation issue. Cork type also matters--natural cork has a chance to impart a good cork flavor, but also, "cork taint" is possible too. Glass corks seem to be the most inoffensive.

[Moroulia]

Just made an Excel sheet with all my flawed wines, and it's now pretty clear that punch-down helps reduce Mercaptan in Barb.

Barb

12 flawed Barb wines.

9 are Mercaptan, 2 Oxidation, 1 Reduction.

11/12 Barb varieties with a flaw have no punch-down.
1/12 Barb variety with a flaw has a 1 per day punchdown (Mercaptan)
1/12 flawed Barbs has Reduction (no punch-down)
2/12 have Oxidation--both of which both have clear bottles

[tomh]

The game should tell you what went wrong.

[Moroulia]

I do think it would have been nice if the game included an indication before you play that the stats are meant to reflect what happens in real life ;)

[Moroulia]

For Oxidation, I have too few instances of it to gather data on my own, but my guess is that you are using clear bottles?

[Chris]

Originally posted by Moroulia:

Hi there!
I have found that the flaws resemble what happens IRL in wine making. It takes a lot of googling and unserstanding of chemistry/biology etc... the game is actually pretty realistic in this sense so I can share some basic tips I think I figured out.

Doing a small punch-down on Barb helps prevent Mercaptan (a specific type of "reduction" that happens due to lack of oxygen exposure. Mercaptan has sulfites, as do onion and garlic).

I THINK doing too long of a fermentation on Char is causing either reduction or mercaptan in my game. Cannot say with certainty yet. I also think that maybe not aging Char helps? I also read online that some pesticide sprays have sulfur, but I do not know if the game is programmed to account for timing your spray treatment prevention so at this point I am purely speculating.

Oxidation IRL happens due to too much oxygen exposure. Uncertain which step leads to this HOWEVER I believe using dark and green bottles helps prevent this. Could be also too much punch-down on Barb? A minimal punch down seems to work well for Barb to avoid both oxidation (too much oxygen) AND Mercaptan (too little oxygen). Also, be sure to use green or dark bottles. Using clear bottles might be leading to your oxidation issue. Cork type also matters--natural cork has a chance to impart a good cork flavor, but also, "cork taint" is possible too. Glass corks seem to be the most inoffensive.

FIrstly, Oxidation is pretty much only a problem after fermentation ends, if you dont keep sulfite levels up in real winemaking. Second Mercaptan is from Hydrogen sulfide from stressed yeast converting into other compounds aka Mercaptans that are permanent and flaws in wine.
Reduction is actually from too little oxygen.

And finally punch downs are good for a wine, better extraction of color,aroma and flavor and oxygen benefits the wine at this stage.

Cork Taint is from Chlorine coming into contact with microbes which react with it.

[tomh]

I appreciate you guys trying, but information about real life wine making isn't really useful here.

I want to know exactly what went wrong with my wines in the game. When repeating the same steps doesn't lead to the desired outcome the game should at least tell me why.

[Chris]

Originally posted by tomh:

I appreciate you guys trying, but information about real life wine making isn't really useful here.

I want to know exactly what went wrong with my wines in the game. When repeating the same steps doesn't lead to the desired outcome the game should at least tell me why.

Its so that people know what causes it, ingame cork taint is from not cleaning your equipment, if you use dirty gear it increases the chance of all kinds of taint and flaws.

You get reduction ingame from leaving a wine aging in a tank or barrel for too long before bottling it. Mercaptans ingame are caused also by unclean equipment if you have dirty tanks or presses you can get them. I know this because I had access to the game before it was publicly available and put in tons of testing and was told some of it by yves.

[Moroulia]

Originally posted by Chris:

Originally posted by Moroulia:

Hi there!
I have found that the flaws resemble what happens IRL in wine making. It takes a lot of googling and unserstanding of chemistry/biology etc... the game is actually pretty realistic in this sense so I can share some basic tips I think I figured out.

Doing a small punch-down on Barb helps prevent Mercaptan (a specific type of "reduction" that happens due to lack of oxygen exposure. Mercaptan has sulfites, as do onion and garlic).

I THINK doing too long of a fermentation on Char is causing either reduction or mercaptan in my game. Cannot say with certainty yet. I also think that maybe not aging Char helps? I also read online that some pesticide sprays have sulfur, but I do not know if the game is programmed to account for timing your spray treatment prevention so at this point I am purely speculating.

Oxidation IRL happens due to too much oxygen exposure. Uncertain which step leads to this HOWEVER I believe using dark and green bottles helps prevent this. Could be also too much punch-down on Barb? A minimal punch down seems to work well for Barb to avoid both oxidation (too much oxygen) AND Mercaptan (too little oxygen). Also, be sure to use green or dark bottles. Using clear bottles might be leading to your oxidation issue. Cork type also matters--natural cork has a chance to impart a good cork flavor, but also, "cork taint" is possible too. Glass corks seem to be the most inoffensive.

FIrstly, Oxidation is pretty much only a problem after fermentation ends, if you dont keep sulfite levels up in real winemaking. Second Mercaptan is from Hydrogen sulfide from stressed yeast converting into other compounds aka Mercaptans that are permanent and flaws in wine.
Reduction is actually from too little oxygen.

And finally punch downs are good for a wine, better extraction of color,aroma and flavor and oxygen benefits the wine at this stage.

Cork Taint is from Chlorine coming into contact with microbes which react with it.

Hey thanks so much for getting back to me on this!! Looks like I had some of my chemistry backwards when I posted. Much appreciated!

[Strobe]

Originally posted by tomh:

The game should tell you what went wrong.

Or at least have an option to pay for wine analysis or something.