So...

[Kawayol]

...judging by the characters' shadows, this is based off of PSOne's release, despite developers openly stating several times in the past that they're going to use Saturn's original as a base. Looks like someone couldn't chew more than he/she bit off of this pie.

Don't get me wrong, though - I always preferred PSOne's release over Saturn's due to it being a superior version in many aspects (better shadows, transparency effects which Saturn completely lacked, ACTUAL 3D objects instead of Saturn's pseudo-3D squares (in case if you didn't know - Saturn's "3D" wasn't actual REAL 3D because Saturn simply couldn't do proper triangle polygons AT ALL, thus "substituting" them with SQUARES that were mishmashed on top of each-other, often producing heavy visual glitches similar to Z-fighting. Here's a couple of prime examples - https://images2.imagebam.com/d1/05/5d/d753921303785034.jpg ~ https://images2.imagebam.com/95/e6/d9/2d43781303785054.jpg. Notice how Saturn's versions are also quite "darker"? This is not due to design choice or TV/monitor panel/game settings, but simply because Saturn also has lesser color/dynamic range than PlayStation, so very many versions of games which were released both on Saturn and PSOne alike - were much darker on Saturn), more responsive controls, higher quality of video (FMVs), sound, and textures), but Saturn had a couple things up it's sleeve which always were deemed as "worthy enough of notice so much that Saturn's release SOMEHOW could be considered a superior release" inside the worldwide Grandia fanbase. One of those things is loading times (locations, scenes, etc), which were a bit faster on Saturn indeed, and the second one is the fact Saturn's version had more "3D" (again - not ACTUAL 3D, because see above) objects on the field and especially on battle maps than PSOne's release had (almost every battle screen/map on Saturn has at least one "3D" object, while PSOne's release mostly has 2D textures of same objects being blend into the background, instead).

If this game is actually just a souped-up HD remaster of PSOne's release, with no Saturn's content present whatsoever...I can tolerate that just fine personally, but most of the """""truly hardcore""""" and "absolutely faithful to the original no matter what" people from the Grandia commune would highly likely not. Tough cookies, I guess.
All I care about personally, is for this HD remaster to have full original Japanese track (voice-overs, sound effects, and music alike) and for FMVs to be upscaled properly (essentially fully restored) to modern resolutions. I've seen/experienced the rest already.

[the_randomizer1889]

The Saturn using quads instead of triangles was a really stupid design choice, like, seriously.

[Kawayol]

The architecture was "theoretically better than PSOne", but, like in the case with PS 3 roughly a decade later, Saturn's hardware and software were obtuse, poorly documented, black-boxed, and inconvenient. Yes, even for first-party devs. This is because Saturn was never meant to be a "3D" platform to begin with. It was mainly aimed at 2D content, like sprite/raster/flat 2D. Yet sheer computing power allowed for "3D" objects to be made, despite Saturn lacking real triangle polygonal calculations (and alpha), and, adding Sega's absolutely INEPT management at the time to the fray, the "3D" gimmick was essentially FORCED upon most of the developers, back then.

All of this resulted in Saturn's versions of 3D games being waaay inferior than their PSOne and EVEN (later) Nintendo 64 counterparts, because even N64 was doing PROPER and HONEST 3D on FRIGGIN' CARTRIDGES, rendering Saturn an absolute mess of a platform because Saturn struggled heavily with doing any "3D" AT ALL while being CD-based. Saturn lost the fight for the market for many different reasons, usually due to mismanagement on all fields and fronts, but it's extremely-difficult-to-program-for hardware and software definitely took their toll too. It was doomed from the start, despite theoretically being better than BOTH PSOne and N64. Saturn's hardware was NEVER utilized to absolute 100%, there's not even one single Saturn game released (out of it's entire catalog) that managed to push it's capabilities to it's absolute maximum. Not even Panzer Dragoon, not even Shenmue's prototype, not even Shining Force III. It was literally PS 3 of early and mid-90s. Barely any developer could use it properly and to it's max. Saturn was mainly a 2D platform, because it's pseudo-"3D" was incorrect and inferior to actual honest 3D. And when it came to 2D titles, yes, in THOSE Saturn was superior to PSOne almost each and every time, but...that's that. Nothing else. It was a dawn of the new era, 3D was becoming all the rage, and Saturn couldn't do it right. That's why Saturn lost against it's competition. Their 2D was superior, but it simply wasn't enough anymore. People wanted 3D and Saturn couldn't deliver it. A shame.

[Chizu]

Maybe I missed it in that wall of text, in which case I apologise, but I think one of the things you left out was that things like the background textures for battles were also twice the resolution on Saturn, meaning they're alot better looking, if anything I'd consider that the biggest reason to want at least to have had the saturn's assets used in place of the psx ones in the remaster. Rather than the blurry filtered ones we got that I think look even worse than had they just used the psx ones as are.

Originally they made it sound like they were taking the best of both worlds to come up with a definitive version, sadly thats clearly not turned out to be the case though.

[Kawayol]

Originally posted by Chizu:

background textures for battles were also twice the resolution on Saturn, meaning they're a lot better looking

They weren't. The difference is only in that Saturn has actual physical objects ("3D" models) on battlefield, while PSOne had these exact objects being painted on the background instead of physically being present there as separate models. Quality of background texture-wise during battle they're pretty much same (PSOne's version MIGHT seem "blurrier" due to the said previously-physically-present objects now being painted onto the backgrounds and thus "blurred" to better match the initial textures, but overall texture is of pretty much same quality as Saturn's one). The difference is literally just in that Saturn had these objects as "3D" models and PSOne has them painted as a part of the background texture. They're BOTH there, just done differently.

[Discussions_Acc]

Originally posted by Highti3rd0g:

Quality of background texture-wise during battle they're pretty much same

Pick any battle background and then point to a detail that is "pretty much the same".

Here's one you can start with:
https://i.imgur.com/vp5cXrN.png

[Melodia]

If nothing else, here's the biggest proof that they completely lied about using the Saturn version as a base: And what made it ovious that the Saturn ones was clearly better. This was something I noticed the very first time I played the PSX one (I had played the Saturn one for a short while beforehand) and it's extremely obvious:
Saturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWMviQPo6V4&t=4m55s
PSX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl4tm89vUrE&t=7m59s
Remaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXIAHBlBaZo&t=7m13s

[justinbrg]

The truth is: people are never satisfied.....

[Chizu]

Originally posted by Highti3rd0g:

Originally posted by Chizu:

background textures for battles were also twice the resolution on Saturn, meaning they're a lot better looking

They weren't. The difference is only in that Saturn has actual physical objects ("3D" models) on battlefield, while PSOne had these exact objects being painted on the background instead of physically being present there as separate models. Quality of background texture-wise during battle they're pretty much same (PSOne's version MIGHT seem "blurrier" due to the said previously-physically-present objects now being painted onto the backgrounds and thus "blurred" to better match the initial textures, but overall texture is of pretty much same quality as Saturn's one). The difference is literally just in that Saturn had these objects as "3D" models and PSOne has them painted as a part of the background texture. They're BOTH there, just done differently.

https://twitter.com/VictSok/status/1163267864939438080
The texture resolutions used were literally double on the saturn version, the saturns were 512x512 whilst the psx version had them reduced to 256x256.
https://i.redd.it/1f7oaf7qi6g31.png

You can't tell me theres no difference in fidelity besides the presence of "3d" objects.

One other thing to add is that the Saturn also had an extra sprite for everyone so they had both a left side and a right side, instead of mirroring like the PSX does. i.e sues purse always faces the camera on the PSX which ever side is facing the camera, whilst the saturn version, the purse is on her left side and not her right. Both games have their positive aspects, but they really should have pulled assets from the saturn version if they wanted to make this the ultimate version.

[Kawayol]

Originally posted by Discussions_Acc:

https://i.imgur.com/vp5cXrN.png

You've just proven my point with that link. They're exactly same, the difference is only in that objects in the background (like the box, or whatever that is) are "3D" on Saturn while on PSOne it's blended into the 2D texture of the background. I've already told you - the "blurring" is due to them trying to merge the objects better with the said backgrounds, not because Saturn's texture is somehow "better" or "of higher resolution". There's no extra details anywhere in that.

Originally posted by Melodia:

Saturn version was clearly better

That is an absolute fallacy.

Originally posted by Melodia:

I had played the Saturn one for a short while

That is problematic. You've played it very little/only for a little while, yet you've immediately jumped to (absolutely wrong/utterly incorrect) conclusion on "what's clearly better". Saturn's gfx are worse.

Originally posted by Chizu:

https://i.redd.it/1f7oaf7qi6g31.png

That is NOT "higher resolution", but merely different camera placement.
It's zoomed in on PSOne, while on Saturn it's zoomed out. Also, I've already mentioned before that Saturn's Grandia absolutely lacked proper alpha/transparency effects. You're talking about "extra sprite" and "fidelity", yet you're preferring to completely "ignore"/"deny" the mere fact that Saturn has absolutely garbage shadows and fugly smoke instead of what PSOne has. If anything, it is Saturn that has "difference in fidelity" on the LESSER side, in comparison to PSOne. I'm not blind.

[Discussions_Acc]

Originally posted by Highti3rd0g:

Originally posted by Discussions_Acc:

https://i.imgur.com/vp5cXrN.png

You've just proven my point with that link. They're exactly same, the difference is only in that objects in the background (like the box, or whatever that is) are "3D" on Saturn while on PSOne it's blended into the 2D texture of the background. I've already told you - the "blurring" is due to them trying to merge the objects better with the said backgrounds, not because Saturn's texture is somehow "better" or "of higher resolution". They're not. They're the same thing, and your link clearly shows it. There's no extra details.

So the floor, walls and everything is 3D? Because clearly everything, not just the barrels and whatever, has a lower quality on PlayStation. Can you really not tell the difference?

Have another one which is even more obvious:
https://i.imgur.com/IWIjTu5.png


You also conveniently ignored the link from the other post:
https://twitter.com/VictSok/status/1163267864939438080

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Highti3rd0g:

That is problematic. You've played it very little/only for a little while, yet you've immediately jumped to (absolutely wrong/utterly incorrect) conclusion on "what's clearly better". Saturn's gfx are worse..

Quite a number of people 'back in the day' claimed the Saturn one was better. Claims by people who played both. In the last 20 years I can't say I've ever heard the claim that PSX is in fact better. Granted this game doesn't come up too often and when it does it's usually from people who didn't even know the Saturn one existed.....but still. This is hardly a novel claim, and pretty much every screen shot I've seen comparing the two -- right now, in the context of the old ones vs the remaster -- have shown at least in stills the Saturn one being better.

The screenshots you showed aren't from Grandia. I'm not quite sure what Tomb Raider's worse performance on the console has anything to do with how Grandia's performance.

[GamerXT]

hes comparing Tomb Raider pictures to say that Saturn`s 3D was worse than on PS1 regardless of the Saturn version of Grandia having extra things like building shadows and more detailed textures. He likes the PS1 basically.........lol