Why did they bother?

[Pridit]

As far as I can tell every single cutscene has been adjusted for the worse. The "extended" story points involving Sarah are awful, and so irrelevant to the story as a whole. The characters aren't faithful to the originals what so ever, Paulie is a good example of this with how eccentric they've made him. It's so frustrating to see that they've ruined or outright removed so many subtleties that makes the original so charming, such as some of the dialogue between the detective and Tommy throughout (outside of the cutscenes specifically with them).

I could look past the changed voice actors, begrudgingly, but if you are genuinely a true fan of the original story in Mafia there's no way you can look past the creative changes they've made for absolutely no reason, it's clear they didn't actually understand the story or what it was trying to tell.

I feel like the final cutscenes at the end with the showdown between Tommy and Sam are going to be the most heinous bastardization out of them all.

Does anyone think these are positive changes?

[Pridit]

Publicado originalmente por Meelis13:

OP complains about story being changed around. Its highly likely (based off hints and sayings of dev team) that significant portion of story was cut due to limitations on technology back then.

I've already given examples that this wouldn't be applicable to, so not a very good argument.

Publicado originalmente por Meelis13:

Not to mention, while great, original's story has quite a few significant glossing over bits remake seems to remedy (based off what ive seen in YT videos).

If things are expanded, sure. This doesn't justify changing or removing elements, which alters original meaning.

Publicado originalmente por Meelis13:

'"The characters arent faithful to originals"- wait, what? in what sense? quite the opposite actually- they manage to make characters more like what they were hinted or said to be in original.

Any example? Tommy originally joined the Salieri family due to being backed into a corner, not a lust for revenge. Paulie antagonizing Ralph during the first encounter we see between them seems very uncharacteristic to his original counterpart. The full game isn't out to do a deep dive, but it's very obviously going to be compounded once we see more than the first few hours.

[🅵🆁🅴🅳🅴🆁🅸🅺]

Perhaps let the game release and give it a try for yourself before judging a book by the cover? If you don't like it you can always refund it and go back playing the classic. As long as they learned their lesson from Mafia III I'm all down for this game how it looks in the trailers and the previews.

[Skadess]

Stop crying Pridit.

[Oops, I Crapped My Pants]

its no simp september and my man out here really be changing their name to simp for sarah

[Skadess]

Publicado originalmente por Electric Aunt Jemima:

its no simp september and my man out here really be changing their name to simp for sarah

Oh hey, I forgot that you exist buddy.

[Erectus Sol Invictus Spiritus]

Publicado originalmente por Electric Aunt Jemima:

its no simp september and my man out here really be changing their name to simp for sarah

that female forename has its origins in the "fertile crescent" region, also "canaan", you surely know who i am refering to here hust hust..and maybe ask yourself now where is this leading to..

well, see for example the great masterpiece "Once Upon a Time in America" movie by sergio leone, gangster epos, loosely based on the autobiography/novel by "harry grey" aka "herschel gold_berg" :wink:

"noodles" is "David Aaronson"

the point is: in reality, it was not so much about the italian mafia, more so about the usual guys as always :wink:

so its a nice little detail, that forename, vavra is a great writer
our near eastern friends luv the moon cults and worship or should i note war_ship or who.re-ship ;);)
this remark is to go full circle (pun) regarding "simp" (moon..)

this probably will go above peoples heads but your comment inspired me to shed some light on these connections a bit

[Oops, I Crapped My Pants]

Publicado originalmente por 5pi.ritua|Raci5T:

Publicado originalmente por Electric Aunt Jemima:

its no simp september and my man out here really be changing their name to simp for sarah

that female forename has its origins in the "fertile crescent" region, also "canaan", you surely know who i am refering to here hust hust..and maybe ask yourself now where is this leading to..

well, see for example the great masterpiece "Once Upon a Time in America" movie by sergio leone, gangster epos, loosely based on the autobiography/novel by "harry grey" aka "herschel gold_berg" :wink:

"noodles" is "David Aaronson"

the point is: in reality, it was not so much about the italian mafia, more so about the usual guys as always :wink:

so its a nice little detail, that forename, vavra is a great writer
our near eastern friends luv the moon cults and worship or should i note war_ship or who.re-ship ;);)
this remark is to go full circle (pun) regarding "simp" (moon..)

this probably will go above peoples heads but your comment inspired me to shed some light on these connections a bit

ok, this is based

[Capitán_Manco]

Publicado originalmente por Pridit:

As far as I can tell every single cutscene has been adjusted for the worse. The "extended" story points involving Sarah are awful, and so irrelevant to the story as a whole. The characters aren't faithful to the originals what so ever, Paulie is a good example of this with how eccentric they've made him. It's so frustrating to see that they've ruined or outright removed so many subtleties that makes the original so charming, such as some of the dialogue between the detective and Tommy throughout (outside of the cutscenes specifically with them).

I could look past the changed voice actors, begrudgingly, but if you are genuinely a true fan of the original story in Mafia there's no way you can look past the creative changes they've made for absolutely no reason, it's clear they didn't actually understand the story or what it was trying to tell.

I feel like the final cutscenes at the end with the showdown between Tommy and Sam are going to be the most heinous bastardization out of them all.

Does anyone think these are positive changes?

This entire thing can be resumed into a simple quote: "That's like... Your opinion, man".

You might not like how the cutscenes turned out in the remake. Some are a welcome improvement, in my opinion.

You might not give a damn about Sarah having more screen time. I actually believe it's a good change given it may provide us players a better comprehension of the choices Tommy ends up making.

Agreed on characters not being faithful to the OGs, but it doesn't mean its going to be absolute trash. I actually like that they gave Sam more voice lines and a more interesting personality, cause the original was a dead giveaway of his final choice regarding you. Paulie was an absolute clown in the czech version, so them adjusting it to fit with it doesn't sound bad at all. Not digging Salieri tho or even Vincenzo cracking jokes, but I'll have to play to decide if I absolutely dislike it or end up enjoying the change.

Let me end this one by reminding you of a simple fact: this isnt Illusion Soft anymore doing MAFIA. It's Hangar 13 with some of the original devs, but not all of them. It's a remake, a 2020 remake and there's a target market out there and an entirely different playerbase that you need to appeal to. So far, I'm happy that they haven't butchered the game with stupid changes that might ruin the best game in the franchise. I actually applaud that they dared to expand the story and take the risk of improving what was already an outstanding narrative experience, but as I said before, I'll have to play before I can finaly give any judgement wheter positive or negative about the changes they dared to make.

Once again, like I said before, in the end, this is just my opinion, as is yours. But already trashing on the game before it's even out and you had the chance to give it a full playthrough doesn't make much sense to me.

[cube]

I'm actually kinda hoping they've just made this their interpretation of the story. I still have the original CDs (death to patch 1.1), so I'm fine with looking at this as Mafia 4 instead.

[Margaret von Waldeck]

Yet if they did the same approach SpongeBob Rehydrated style, some would complain that it was more of a remaster than a full-on reimagining.

[Meelis13]

Publicado originalmente por Pridit:

[
I've already given examples that this wouldn't be applicable to, so not a very good argument.


If things are expanded, sure. This doesn't justify changing or removing elements, which alters original meaning.


Any example? Tommy originally joined the Salieri family due to being backed into a corner, not a lust for revenge. Paulie antagonizing Ralph during the first encounter we see between them seems very uncharacteristic to his original counterpart. The full game isn't out to do a deep dive, but it's very obviously going to be compounded once we see more than the first few hours.

1. Yet this is one of main complaints i see- "why they changed how things work, how DARE they do that with tech advancing. How DARE they make game more accessible"- that kind of bs in these forums

2. How come it doesnt justify altering things if they are altered to improve the storytelling. Not to mention, i havent seen a single piece yet thats changed meaning significantly from originals intent.

3. uhm, have we played 2 totally different mafias by any chance? Because i sure as heck recall Paulie at least once verbally antagonizing Ralph in the original. It was bit later though, but it was there. Also keep in mind that theres a lot of stuff that was said either behind the scenes/off-game back then. For instance, Sam is supposed to be womanizer. We didnt see it in original, but we saw it here. Besides its out of character for Paulie to be like that? He was reckless and more bratty (for lack of better word) compared to Sam and well, if you played original, you should know that, due to certain events im not gonna mention here.

[Pridit]

Publicado originalmente por Meelis13:

1. Yet this is one of main complaints i see- "why they changed how things work, how DARE they do that with tech advancing. How DARE they make game more accessible"- that kind of bs in these forums

This has nothing to do with anything I've said. My complaints are predominantly with the narrative, not the tech or gameplay, which this doesn't excuse.

Publicado originalmente por Meelis13:

2. How come it doesnt justify altering things if they are altered to improve the storytelling. Not to mention, i havent seen a single piece yet thats changed meaning significantly from originals intent.

When I refer to altering I'm referring to things like Morello being the one to cause the road incident. How does that improve storytelling to portray Morello as an incompetent oaf?

The power dynamic completely changing between Tommy and the detective is pretty significant. I recommend you compare the first two scenes as these are not at all minor alterations. The full game isn't out yet to see how all of the scenes have changed, but judging from the first few hours this will only compound.

Publicado originalmente por Meelis13:

3. uhm, have we played 2 totally different mafias by any chance? Because i sure as heck recall Paulie at least once verbally antagonizing Ralph in the original. It was bit later though, but it was there.

17:19
https://youtu.be/rxApGeuwNQ8?t=1039

34:05
https://youtu.be/3Gh5uKzmVaQ?t=2045

These are not remotely close to being the same thing. I certainly don't remember the line about the brake lines at any point in the original, nor taking the joke Ralph made about them being cripples to be met with such hostility.

[V I D A L]

I just watched the intro because I don't wanna spoil anything. Looks great.. I kinda loved how they switched at the end and it's the detective that comes out of the train and Tommy is already waiting at the bar this time.

[Skadess]

Publicado originalmente por V I D A L:

I just watched the intro because I don't wanna spoil anything. Looks great.. I kinda loved how they switched at the end and it's the detective that comes out of the train and Tommy is already waiting at the bar this time.

Yeah, intro is just gorgeous.

[Meelis13]

Publicado originalmente por Pridit:

This has nothing to do with anything I've said. My complaints are predominantly with the narrative, not the tech or gameplay, which this doesn't excuse.


When I refer to altering I'm referring to things like Morello being the one to cause the road incident. How does that improve storytelling to portray Morello as an incompetent oaf?

The power dynamic completely changing between Tommy and the detective is pretty significant. I recommend you compare the first two scenes as these are not at all minor alterations. The full game isn't out yet to see how all of the scenes have changed, but judging from the first few hours this will only compound.
17:19
https://youtu.be/rxApGeuwNQ8?t=1039

34:05
https://youtu.be/3Gh5uKzmVaQ?t=2045

These are not remotely close to being the same thing. I certainly don't remember the line about the brake lines at any point in the original, nor taking the joke Ralph made about them being cripples to be met with such hostility.

1. Ok, apparently i need to spell this one out for you (does nobody bother to think of something other than themselves these days?): it was not meant for you specifically, but it is meant for whiners in these forums in general when actual product hasnt even been released yet.

2. Apparently you didnt pay attention of what that scene was supposed to convey. And it wasnt to show him incompetent oaf (which wasnt even the case- idk how the heck you read that out). It was supposed to convey his easy irritability (which it did), violent tendencies (also did it), large influence (again the case) and the fact that he is so powerful even police wont do anything even if he literally murders person in prominent spot in broad daylight in front of police officers. Big large checkmark. All these were present in original too. So, again, what was changed in way that drastically changed the meaning
The detective and Tommy dynamic is also pretty much the same. The changes made in opening scene do make sense (tbh thats actually one of main areas that bugged me in original- how Tommy sat with back exposed to the door and in middle of large window and didnt even slip a look across room to see if anyone is there to off him). Its also still apparent that both sides have what other want. Its changed in a way that detective is more chatty, but that doesnt change much imho.

3. like i said, its not one on one trade, but its quite apparent how things are there., plus again, it happened later down the line with it being out of cutscene, the scene im thinking of.