Convalesce is a poor choice of word

[NoRestarts]

While it is technically correct, it is not something most people are going to know the definition without googling. "Recovery" or even "recuperate" would probably be a better choice of words. At the very least, update the tool tip. If someone doesn't know the definition of "convalesce" then a description of "convalesce while wounds heal" is not much help.

[XartaX]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

XartaX a écrit :

So what? It doesn't matter if you don't know the word. Just look it up. It's not hard.

You're arguing for arguments sake. Localizations is nowhere near the same thing as what's being discussed. So either come up with a valid argument, or go back to the kids table.

Your argument makes this stance just as valid as your own. So no, it is exactly the same thing as far as your argument is concerned.

[DeadMechGaming]

XartaX a écrit :

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

You're arguing for arguments sake. Localizations is nowhere near the same thing as what's being discussed. So either come up with a valid argument, or go back to the kids table.

Your argument makes this stance just as valid as your own. So no, it is exactly the same thing as far as your argument is concerned.

You keep going off track. Localizations is not the same thing. Your fighting over translations of a word, I'm saying the word fits and that people shouldn't want it removed just because they don't know what it means. Two entirely different arguments.

So since you can't stay on track and are trying to devolve the conversation into something that has nothing to do with it because you have no argument, blocked. I'm not going to waste my time on someone who moves the goalpost simply because they don't know how to accept that maybe they don't know something.

[NoRestarts]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

1. The word Convalesce's roots come from the Latin words com- ("with, together, jointly") and the verb "valescere" ("to grow strong"). Recovery has no Latin roots. So the word Convalesce predates Recovery by a few centuries.

We are not talking about the Latin root word, convalescere, as it was not used in the game (as it is even more obscure, and makes even less sense to use).
And you are incorrect, "convalesce" does not predate "recover".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convalesce

"First Known Use of convalesce
15th century, in the meaning defined"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recover#h2

"First Known Use of recover
Verb (1)
14th century, in the meaning defined at transitive sense 1"

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

2. The 15th century is the 1400's. The game is set in the mid 14th century (check the game date in the top corner. You start in 1352). So it is indeed pre-industrial. Anything BEFORE industrial would be considered pre-industrial. Hell the classical era is pre-industrial because the word pre literally means BEFORE.

I'm not disputing that it is pre-industrial.
However the Renaissance is also pre-industrial, as is the Stone Age.
But the game does not take place in either of those time periods.
It takes place in the Medieval period.
Since the game takes place in 1352, how is it logical to use a word that didn't exist until the 15th century (at least 48 years after the game take place)?

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

3. According to Websters dictionary, the word Recovery wasn't used till the 15th century. Also, since Convalesce has it's roots in Latin, that'd mean that those who were educated back then (monks and royalty) would've used the Latin word. And since monks were usually the healers (surgeons and herbalists weren't always readily available, but monasteries where everywhere in Europe), that'd mean the most commonly used word would be the Latin word.

See point 1, recover was first used in the 14th century.
Convalesce (not its Latin root word) was not used until after the game takes place.

And as for the Latin root word for recover, again see the merriam-webster link above:

"History and Etymology for recover
Verb (1)

Middle English, from Anglo-French recoverer, from Latin recuperare, from re- + *caperare, from Latin capere to take — more at HEAVE entry 1"

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

So yes, my argument was 100% time accurate. Try again

So no, you argument was not 100% time accurate, you try again.

[DeadMechGaming]

NoRestarts a écrit :

*all wrong*

Convalesce

https://www.google.com/search?q=root+word+convalescent&newwindow=1&safe=off&ei=wLq_YL6sDM7RtAaCj5qIDw&oq=root+word+convales&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB46BwgAEEcQsAM6BQgAEJECOgIIADoECAAQCjoICAAQFhAKEB46BggAEA0QHjoICAAQCBANEB5Qln9Y7ZoBYNumAWgEcAJ4AIABf4gBjwiSAQMzLjeYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz

Recovery

https://www.google.com/search?q=root+word+recovery&newwindow=1&safe=off&source=hp&ei=3rq_YJTPC8SwtgWnz72IBA&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYL_I7khRUVYz9Ywjq8K98gDa7ik65Ax7&oq=root+word+recovery&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjoICAAQ6gIQjwE6BAgAEEM6BQgAEJECOgIIADoICAAQsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOggILhCxAxCDAToKCC4QxwEQrwEQQzoECC4QQzoFCAAQsQM6BQguELEDOggILhDHARCvAToHCAAQsQMQQzoCCC46CAgAELEDEMkDUMIMWLIlYIkoaAFwAHgBgAHaAYgBnxKSAQU3LjkuMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXqwAQo&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiUtoOJ2YjxAhVEmK0KHadnD0EQ4dUDCAk&uact=5

Pay attention to the use over time section. Either way, it still doesn't change my original point. You're arguing for them to remove a word simply because people are too lazy to look up what it means, or pay attention to what the actions of said word is.

[NoRestarts]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

*all wrong*

LOL, your link to convalescent says mid 17th century and recovery is mid 14th century.

And I love how you just hand wave away facts.

Are you disputing that recover is from the 14th century?
Again, look at both merriam-webster and dictionary.com and tell me it says different:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/recovery

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recover#h2

[DeadMechGaming]

NoRestarts a écrit :

LOL, your link to convalescent says mid 17th century.

My god.. it's like talking to a brick wall.

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

Also, since Convalesce has it's roots in Latin, that'd mean that those who were educated back then (monks and royalty) would've used the Latin word. And since monks were usually the healers (surgeons and herbalists weren't always readily available, but monasteries where everywhere in Europe), that'd mean the most commonly used word would be the Latin word.

That means they would've said Convalescere (Convalesce). They wouldn't have said the word Recovrer (Recovery) because it came later and was originally a Norman French word. English monks spoke mostly Latin, not Norman French.

(And before you argue this too, yes I am well aware that they spoke Middle English and Anglo-Norman too, but they tried to stick to Latin as much as possible. So the most common word used would've been Convalescere, not Recovrer)

So again, using the word Convalesce is perfectly acceptable for the time and setting of the game. The end.

[NoRestarts]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

My god.. it's like talking to a brick wall....

You aren't making any sense.
The game does not use the word Convalescere, if it did, you might have had a point.
The game uses Convalesce.
Are you saying that the word Convalesce was used during the time the game takes place?
Because all the facts (posted above) do not show that.

Are you also still claiming that the word Convalesce (not the root word for it) is older than Recover (not the root word for it)?

[XartaX]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

XartaX a écrit :

Your argument makes this stance just as valid as your own. So no, it is exactly the same thing as far as your argument is concerned.

You keep going off track. Localizations is not the same thing. Your fighting over translations of a word, I'm saying the word fits and that people shouldn't want it removed just because they don't know what it means. Two entirely different arguments.

So since you can't stay on track and are trying to devolve the conversation into something that has nothing to do with it because you have no argument, blocked. I'm not going to waste my time on someone who moves the goalpost simply because they don't know how to accept that maybe they don't know something.

It's not off track. Your entire argument is, "it's fine because you can look it up". If that is your only argument, we might as well put words from random langauges on things. Because you can look those up too. And the fact that you can provide no reasonable explanation to justify why it's not the case and have to run away and block the other party just displays to everyone how you're incapable of defending your position.

[DeadMechGaming]

NoRestarts a écrit :

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

My god.. it's like talking to a brick wall....

You aren't making any sense.
The game does not use the word Convalescere, if it did, you might have had a point.
The game uses Convalesce.
Are you saying that the word Convalesce was used during the time the game takes place?
Because all the facts (posted above) do not show that.

Are you also still claiming that the word Convalesce (not the root word for it) is older than Recover (not the root word for it)?

The devs used the modern version of the word they actually used back then. Do you honestly think old English was the same words we say now? If you heard someone speaking the English from that century you wouldn't understand ANY of it. 90% of the Modern English language is words stolen from other languages. Hell, our American English is even worse when it comes to stolen words compared to British English.

So what I'm saying makes perfect sense if you actually take a minute and think about it. If you really want them to use ONLY the words they used back then, fine. All of the words should be in the Latin forms that was historically used during the timeframe and then translated into the modern ones for people to understand. Oh wait, they already did that. Hence the word Convalesce.

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/medievaldocuments/languages.aspx

"Latin was still the preferred language for many purposes. With its fixed grammar and spelling, it was easy to abbreviate without misunderstanding. It remained the medium for international scholarship until the seventeenth century.

The Catholic church used Latin in its services, so all liturgical books were written in this language until the Reformation in the sixteenth century. The theologian John Wycliffe began to translate the Bible into English in the late fourteenth century, but the Lollard movement with which he was associated was persecuted by the authorities, so late medieval Bibles in English are rare."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine_of_Western_Europe

"Monasteries developed not only as spiritual centers, but also centers of intellectual learning and medical practice. Locations of the monasteries were secluded and designed to be self-sufficient, which required the monastic inhabitants to produce their own food and also care for their sick. Prior to the development of hospitals, people from the surrounding towns looked to the monasteries for help with their sick."

So if Latin was the major language of the educated in that time period, and monasteries were a main source for medicine, then that'd mean that Latin was typically the language of medicine (especially so because it was one of the only common languages among the educated in Europe, as stated in the 1st link). So for the devs to use the Modern version of Convalescere, which is Convalesce, is 100% correct.

Yes, you are correct that Convalesce wasn't used till the 15th to 17th century, the word they actually used, Convalescere, was used from the Roman times and on into the 14th century. Which is why I kept saying the ROOT WORD!

Now, are you done whining about the modernized and bastardized version of the actual word used during that time frame being used in a game, or shall we continue?

[That Drunk Fellow]

Okay, so on the topic of googling a word versus randomly chosen words from different languages.
This is a ridiculous argument, there is a huge difference between going to google, knowing the word you are looking for is English and googling one or two words, versus having to google every word, figure out their language, then translate every single word in the game.
So whoever initially made that argument, that was the most nonsense argument in this entire thread.

Now my opinion on this whole thing, I have no issue with changing the word, however people who are getting angry over having to google one word in an entire game and then goes to the forums to complain about it? That is dedication to not wanting to learn new words.
As a non native English speaker, who is not from any country that has any ties to the word "convalescence" and this is a word I learned in my mid/late teenage years.
I realize the word is becoming less and less used and as such less and less people are likely to learn the word, cause they are not exposed to it.
So my point here being, making use of the word that is very fitting description for what it does, is helping keeping an aspect of the English language alive, that is otherwise dying out and giving some incentive for people to educate themselves and expand their vocabulary.

So from a social culture and language stand point, asking to have the word changed, a completely valid and fitting word in the situation, is encouraging dumbing down and simplifying of the English language and lack of verbal distinction through the extension of vocabulary.

I will admit, purely from a "ease of use" perspective, yes changing the word is the "right" solution, but this honestly seems like such a small tiny thing, that as someone who actually appreciates encouraging myself and others to learn to extend their vocabulary to make communication clearer? Changing it would honestly just be another tiny step towards the social tendency of simplifying and dumbing down the English language.

[DeadMechGaming]

Drunk N' Deadly a écrit :

*snipped it just because it was a lot to read*

Finally! Some common sense!

And the one you were talking about in your first paragraph, would've been XartaX. Hence why I've blocked him. That nonsense "argument" wasn't worth investing anymore time towards.

[XartaX]

Drunk N' Deadly a écrit :

Okay, so on the topic of googling a word versus randomly chosen words from different languages.
This is a ridiculous argument, there is a huge difference between going to google, knowing the word you are looking for is English and googling one or two words, versus having to google every word, figure out their language, then translate every single word in the game.
So whoever initially made that argument, that was the most nonsense argument in this entire thread.

Now my opinion on this whole thing, I have no issue with changing the word, however people who are getting angry over having to google one word in an entire game and then goes to the forums to complain about it? That is dedication to not wanting to learn new words.
As a non native English speaker, who is not from any country that has any ties to the word "convalescence" and this is a word I learned in my mid/late teenage years.
I realize the word is becoming less and less used and as such less and less people are likely to learn the word, cause they are not exposed to it.
So my point here being, making use of the word that is very fitting description for what it does, is helping keeping an aspect of the English language alive, that is otherwise dying out and giving some incentive for people to educate themselves and expand their vocabulary.

So from a social culture and language stand point, asking to have the word changed, a completely valid and fitting word in the situation, is encouraging dumbing down and simplifying of the English language and lack of verbal distinction through the extension of vocabulary.

I will admit, purely from a "ease of use" perspective, yes changing the word is the "right" solution, but this honestly seems like such a small tiny thing, that as someone who actually appreciates encouraging myself and others to learn to extend their vocabulary to make communication clearer? Changing it would honestly just be another tiny step towards the social tendency of simplifying and dumbing down the English language.

If your entire argument is "you can take the time to look up the word", then no, there's no difference. You don't have to "figure out which language" or anything. Assuming it's in latin letters, you can just input it into a search engine and you'll get it. You can even just type "<word> to english" and you'll immediately get the english meaning of the word. Now, come on, try to justify why one is okay, and not the other, ONLY using the argument "you can take the time to look it up".

[That Drunk Fellow]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

Drunk N' Deadly a écrit :

*snipped it just because it was a lot to read*

Finally! Some common sense!

And the one you were talking about in your first paragraph, would've been XartaX. Hence why I've blocked him. That nonsense "argument" wasn't worth investing anymore time towards.

While I am glad you agree with me, I suspect the reason that most people were so against your perspective is how you have been approaching the debate, noticed it in a few threads that you have a highly aggressive manner of debating, which pushes people away from agreeing with you, even when you make good points.

[DeadMechGaming]

Drunk N' Deadly a écrit :

While I am glad you agree with me, I suspect the reason that most people were so against your perspective is how you have been approaching the debate, noticed it in a few threads that you have a highly aggressive manner of debating, which pushes people away from agreeing with you, even when you make good points.

Probably right, old habit; but an aggressive truth is still the truth. And typically I'm not aggressive until someone is aggressive towards me or if what they are saying is completely asinine. After that, "don't dish it if you can't take it" ya know?

[XartaX]

DeadMechGaming a écrit :

Drunk N' Deadly a écrit :

While I am glad you agree with me, I suspect the reason that most people were so against your perspective is how you have been approaching the debate, noticed it in a few threads that you have a highly aggressive manner of debating, which pushes people away from agreeing with you, even when you make good points.

Probably right, old habit; but an aggressive truth is still the truth. And typically I'm not until someone is aggressive towards me. After that, "don't dish it if you can't take it" ya know?

Lol, so he says after blocking someone.