Are the new gates useless? (or only decorative structures?)

[Van_Clif]

I was really hyped when the new gates were presented. Especially the portcullis...
Even if they are very complicated to open and close.
So I immediately installed them in a three-layer gate system.
The ornate gates on the outside to impress visitors. Then the portcullis behind it, as the actual main defense, and finally the normal gates to hold back the enemy one last time while the troops retreat into the keep, where they can once again entrench themselves behind two layers of reinforced doors.

But after the first attack I was simply disappointed.
The ornate gate fell relatively quickly. But ok, it was only the first layer and more ornamental.
The portcullis would surely... oh... It was destroyed as quickly as if it hadn't even been there.
So I retreated to the keep...

After the battle, I took another look at the gates and the portcullis and did the math.

With 500 HP, the large gate has a good 166% of the HP of a reinforced door. But the double width also means two attackers instead of one. This reduces the effectiveness in combat to 83% of the reinforced door.
The ornate door with its 470 HP is still 78% effective.

But the worst was the portcullis.
550 HP make it 183% more durable than the reinforced door, but the quadruple width also means significantly more attackers and an effective usage of just 45%, and that's not even taking into account the fact that the attackers also like to stack, i.e. two of them stand on the same square and attack...

This means that all three layers of the gate system (decorated large gate, portcullis, large gate) are only about 103% as effective as two layers of reinforced doors. If you factor in research costs, construction costs and the cumbersome operation, this reduces the benefit even further.

From this perspective, gates would have to have at least 600 HP and portcullis even at least 1200 HP to have the same effectiveness as a reinforced door. Or am I missing something?

[Kjoris2]

They are practically useless as defensive structures, as the size to health ratio is as it is yes.

And even as normal doors they are almost useless because you have to leave them open or closed "all the time", even during winter, meaning you need regular doors anyway.

[Jambie Lionheart]

You can use these gates offensively if you have enough melee fighters. You pretty much just box the enemies in, poke 'em from the front and side then shoot 'em in the rear with arrows. (platform built slightly behind the gate)

[Kjoris2]

This works with reinforced doors as well, and because they come in single file you can even kill some before they even hit the gate. just place windows next to the doors, and have 2 melee fighters and all archers focus on a single tile. That way the reinforced door will last way longer, and if broken threw, your settlers are still save.

And you don't have to manually open close all doors

[AvengingSilence]

I just had an issue, first siege after unlocking and building portcullises to defend my keep.

Enemies just... Walk right through the portcullis. Three of them, back to back, with two layers of reinforced doors behind them as a last resort. All three portcullises closed and locked, but the enemies just walk through all three and attack the reinforced doors like some sort of phantoms.

But my people can neither move through them or attack through them with ranged weaponry... Seems even more useless than their Health to Size ratio would imply.

Extremely disappointing.

[Jambie Lionheart]

Originally posted by Kjoris2:

This works with reinforced doors as well, and because they come in single file you can even kill some before they even hit the gate. just place windows next to the doors, and have 2 melee fighters and all archers focus on a single tile. That way the reinforced door will last way longer, and if broken threw, your settlers are still save.

And you don't have to manually open close all doors

I prefer manually commanding the units to attack through the door :P The pointy boys are legends from one game to the next.

[Van_Clif]

My melee fighters nearly never have to fight.
I use a 2 layer reinforced door defense Surrounded by three Levels higher platforms for archers.
Before the attackers reach the melees, they are shot down by the archers...

They mostly Not even get through the fist Doors.

Thats why I was so disapointed by the gates.
The Gate House Looks great with them, but while the old 2 layers defense is Not even broken at one layer, the gates Fall all three in no time...

But for the topic:

I suggest, that the New Gates get HP matching their size and Research Level.
600 for large Ornate Gates
800 for large gates
1800 for the portcullis.

(Also Armor against melee weapons excluding battering ramms would be possible in Exchange of some HP, maybe as a reinforced version?)

In adition a new Job: the Gate ceeper.
In the Work time the guard/ceeper watches and operates the gates and portcullis to ceep animals and foes outside and let setlers and friendly visitors in.
So the gates require a worker for them, what makes them more expensive to build and run, but gives them the Same use as normal Doors while more durable and usefull as defense Line with also more Style.

[Stoney]

Well after reading this I am definitely disappointed. I spent the last few days reworking the gates in my settlement to include the new portcullis and doors and finish off the keep i had been building..i had turned off raids while doing this as i find it annoying when i'm trying to build things. Anyhow after reading this i'm getting the distinct impression that until they release an update increasing the hp of these things I just went and made my settlement that much weaker in the meantime. =/

[JosephPhelonius]

I agree with this. My main gripe with the new gates (love how they look) is that you need to constantly keep them either permanently open or permanently locked. If we don't have something like the Gate Keeper role as you mentioned, OP, then just having the option for the gates to work like doors would be wonderful. Now I feel like my glorious Great Hall with its big ornate gates for an entrance is... well, pointless.

[Shealladh]

They definitely need a few tweaks, doors seem to work better that's for sure.
I suggested it ages ago, but a town bell alarm you can ring. Your people then go into combat mode, lock doors (new additions first) and meet at the designated area like a Animal Pen Marker.

["MrHindsight"]

Do you guys have screenshots of your gates and defenses? I'd like to see how you poke them from the sides and such. haha Thanks!

[Calcium+]

It looks like the values for the HP is in BaseBuildingRepository.json, so we should be able to fix this with a quick mod for the time being.

Ids are "wood_gate_tall", "wood_ornate_gate_tall" and "wood_portcullis"

[Shealladh]

Originally posted by Calcium+:

It looks like the values for the HP is in BaseBuildingRepository.json, so we should be able to fix this with a quick mod for the time being.

Ids are "wood_gate_tall", "wood_ornate_gate_tall" and "wood_portcullis"

Cheers

[Stoney]

Thanks Calcium

[Shealladh]

Originally posted by Calcium+:

It looks like the values for the HP is in BaseBuildingRepository.json, so we should be able to fix this with a quick mod for the time being.

Ids are "wood_gate_tall", "wood_ornate_gate_tall" and "wood_portcullis"

Wish they'd add a fortified version of them as a QOL and solution ;)

[po10cySA]

This is a huge problem with the game, nothing beats just building a maze with traps and have your archers pick the enemies off. As soon as you enclose your base completely trebuchets just wreck your buildings, its annoying. Every playthrough is the same, mole people with a maze above ground made out of earth....unbeatable.