Going Medieval

Going Medieval

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Oragepoilu May 26, 2023 @ 11:19pm
Train archery : asking for tips
Hello,
Im playing on the non-experimental version of the game.

I can't equip ranged weapon beside shortbow because of the skill requirement.

Thus I'v decided to ask my colonist to shoot their friend. (I only have one cow, and hunting barely give any experience since they shoot/miss once and go back to home).

I place two people in front of each other, max distance, behind a window, with a merlon in front of the window.

So far, decent cover, but I still hit too often - I can't reach my max xp per day because I don't want to hurt them too much (I still need them to work/defend after).

I tried putting more window/merlon in a lot of different setup, but it block sight. I tried to put other cover between them, like table, but I can't see any difference between mutiple test of people shooting at each other with or without the extra cover between the windows/merlons.

I tried using height (2 floor, then 6 floor tested) to decrease hit chance, but I can't seems to notice any difference (archer that shoot down tend to crit more often, but hit as much - I need to test more)

I could put someone as a dummy behind a window and close it before the archer fire but after they start aiming, and I think it's the best way right now, but it's really tedious to do so manually. And the guys behind don't get any xp.

So ... any good idea ? I don't mind a lot of cheese.
Last edited by Oragepoilu; May 27, 2023 @ 2:06am
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Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
failsafe May 27, 2023 @ 1:16am 
Hunting is not that bad. If you hunt a lot, like really a lot, you will slowly get there... and also, if you keep in mind that you actually get food this way, it is not a loss of time. And you can kill all animals on the map, since they will respawn.

I never tried very hard to boost xp. Any bow does job, so you dont need to get to best possible option asap.
Oragepoilu May 27, 2023 @ 2:06am 
Mh. Im swimming in food/wine with one guy planting some redcurrant (to the point I don't even plant crops now), but the leather is appreciated. the biggest issue is how they just shoot once and leave - I still hunt because leather, but that's like 100-200xp per full day of hunting if left done automatically, on top of the need to reload save after an animal decide to kill them.

While you think I don't need the best option asap, my guys still get killed by the master archer, behind merlon+window while using fine (or better) gambeson; Using short bows, I don't have the time to kill them before they snipe one of my guy (unless I abuse the window open/close button).

Side note : aint a complain btw, just trying to play on hard. It's fine if it's just like this.
Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
...my guys still get killed by the master archer, behind merlon+window while using fine (or better) gambeson;...
Я очень сомневаюсь, что повышение Меткости даже в 2-3 раза хоть как-то поможет решить эту проблему.
К тому же, правила игры заданы так, что получить Меткость хотя бы 30-40 (стартуя с 15-20) потребует 5-6 лет ЕЖЕДНЕВНЫХ тренировок.

Тем самым:
1. Решение проблемы с мастер-лучником - не в повышении Меткости, а в:
- увеличении количества стрелков, которые ведут по нему огонь;
- создание для этих стрелков оптимальных условий для точной стрельбы (башни на 2-3 уровня выше, чем находится мастер-лучник (+20% к точности Ваших стрелков, -20% - к точности мастер-лучника). А его можно и в яму загнать, что даст дополнительные бонусы Вам и штрафы врагу.
- использование дальнобойного оружия. Арбалеты имеют дальность стрельбы 25, против 18 у луков. Используйте это!
2. Я посмотрел много прохождений этой игры. И ни разу не видел, чтобы игроки специально тренировали Меткость. Более того: как правило, к исходу 4 или 5 года максимальное значение этого навыка у стрелков редко превышает 23-25. По-видимому, этого вполне хватает даже на высокой сложности.
failsafe May 27, 2023 @ 6:49am 
I agree with cyrylica guy. Towers + narrow entry points solve most problems. I try to keep four entrances to my walled area. I place 2-4 people on the ground, to do some melee stuff behind the entrance and rest one or two levels higher. It is always better to have better weapon and skill, but it doesnt count that much. Archers or crossbowmen shooting from tower can survive much longer than archers shooting from the ground. And you can always focus on most difficult enemies first. Oh, just give them some armour, it also helps.
failsafe May 27, 2023 @ 6:51am 
Just to show the example - and this is one of first tower I've ever built in this game, so it is not a best thing really.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2928918606
Oragepoilu May 27, 2023 @ 7:04am 
I'll put this here again (I quote myself from the first post) because it seems people keep missing it somehow.

Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
I can't equip ranged weapon beside shortbow because of the skill requirement.

Most of my people are under 10, even if it's slowly increasing.

That's why Im trying to leveling up mostly, since shortbow aren't doing it when you have 10-15 archers aiming at my colonists. Moving my colonist away doesn't change much since the hit register as soon as they fire, but after they aim, leaving very little time to use it - and it's impossible when there is so much of them with different timing.

I learned something meanwhile tho - didn't noticed that low durability on armor reduce it's efficiency, I changed my armor rule and keep brand new armor and it help a lot.
Also, While stick trap are worthless, metal trap destroy people's legs allowing me for once to hit and hide.
Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
Most of my people are under 10, even if it's slowly increasing.
Простой арбалет не имеет требований по навыку Меткости для использования. По крайней мере, мой боец с Меткостью 2 им спокойно пользуется.
Разница между коротким и длинным луками только в величине наносимого урона. Все остальное (дальность, точность) - одинаковые.
У меня тоже 3 бойца имеют Меткость менее 10. Это не особо мешает им вполне неплохо воевать.

Совет 1: если так уж раздражает низкий навык Меткости, установите этому поселенцу режим дня, при котором он будет охотиться в то время, когда звери (волки, лисы, хорьки) спят. По спящим шансы на попадание существенно выше (я бы сказал, процентов на 20%). С другой стороны: если стрелок НЕ попадает, опыт все равно дается (уменьшенный). Три промаха - примерно как одно попадание. Зато "мишени" надольше хватит.

Совет 2: если не стоит вопрос с тем, как побыстрее убить бандитов, можно, убив лучников врага, убрать своих "прокачанных" стрелков, предоставив стрелкам с низкой Меткостью спокойно тренироваться на бандитах с оружием ближнего боя. Цена вопроса - 2-3 "укрепленных" двери. Таким образом вполне реально "выбить" дневную норму опыта (1200 очков).

GT:
A simple crossbow has no Accuracy skill requirement to use. At least my fighter with Accuracy 2 is comfortable using it.
The difference between short and long bows is only in the amount of damage dealt. Everything else (range, accuracy) is the same.
I also have 3 fighters with an Accuracy of less than 10. This does not really prevent them from fighting quite well.

Tip 1: if the low Accuracy skill is so annoying, set this settler to a daily routine in which he will hunt at a time when animals (wolves, foxes, ferrets) are sleeping. For sleepers, the chances of getting hit are significantly higher (I would say, 20 percent). On the other hand: if the shooter does NOT hit, experience is still given (reduced). Three misses is about the same as one hit. But the "target" is enough for a long time.

Tip 2: if there is no question of how to quickly kill the bandits, you can, after killing the enemy archers, remove your "pumped" shooters, leaving the shooters with low Accuracy to calmly train on the bandits with melee weapons. Issue price - 2-3 "fortified" doors. Thus, it is quite possible to gain a daily rate of experience (1200 points).
Last edited by Чебриков В.М.; May 27, 2023 @ 10:27am
tedosnyder May 27, 2023 @ 10:32am 
Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
Hello,
Im playing on the non-experimental version of the game.

I can't equip ranged weapon beside shortbow because of the skill requirement.

Thus I'v decided to ask my colonist to shoot their friend. (I only have one cow, and hunting barely give any experience since they shoot/miss once and go back to home).

I place two people in front of each other, max distance, behind a window, with a merlon in front of the window.

So far, decent cover, but I still hit too often - I can't reach my max xp per day because I don't want to hurt them too much (I still need them to work/defend after).

I tried putting more window/merlon in a lot of different setup, but it block sight. I tried to put other cover between them, like table, but I can't see any difference between mutiple test of people shooting at each other with or without the extra cover between the windows/merlons.

I tried using height (2 floor, then 6 floor tested) to decrease hit chance, but I can't seems to notice any difference (archer that shoot down tend to crit more often, but hit as much - I need to test more)

I could put someone as a dummy behind a window and close it before the archer fire but after they start aiming, and I think it's the best way right now, but it's really tedious to do so manually. And the guys behind don't get any xp.

So ... any good idea ? I don't mind a lot of cheese.
you can hunt in levy mode. that is how I took care of a large wolf pack.
Oragepoilu May 27, 2023 @ 10:46am 
Hunting while animals are sleeping is actually a great idea, It didn't crossed my mind (too used to rimworld lighting accuracy debuff and lying down hit chance decrease ...).
Going to sleep early and do a drafted hunt gave me some decent xp, thx for the advice.

I checked the crossbow; I bought one before and needed 15 skill to equip it ... but it was the heavy variant. I assumed the regular crossbow would require more skill since it's further in the tech tree. Time to start crafting more of them.
Хочу заметить, что арбалет куда менее выгоден для прокачки навыка, чем короткий лук: время атаки больше, урон больше. Прокачка замедлится раза в 2.
Соломоновым решением может стать вооружение арбалетами только 2-3 стрелков с хорошей Меткостью, чтобы именно они выбивали лучников, а бойцов с низкой Меткостью вооружить короткими луками.

GT:
I want to note that the crossbow is much less beneficial for leveling a skill than a short bow: the attack time is longer, the damage is greater. Pumping will slow down by 2 times.
The "Solomon's solution" could be to equip only 2-3 shooters with good Accuracy with crossbows, so that they would kill archers, and equip shooters with low Accuracy with short bows.
Oragepoilu May 28, 2023 @ 12:37am 
I kept my crappy short bow I first crafted super early for training, I intended to deal with the archer first with the crossbow; I have a bunch of stick trap that heavily slow the melee guy so I can kill them later using the crappy bow.
Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
I kept my crappy short bow I first crafted super early for training
Save scumming не используешь?
На примере: только что получил "нападение": 15 бандитов, ни одного стрелка. Стрельбище! Тир! Один "минус": они пришли под вечер, когда вся моя команда уже спать собирается. Так и подмывает загрузить сохранение часов на 5 раньше, чтобы самых слабых своих стрелков положить спать. И пусть потом всю ночь тренируются!
Ловушки разве не наносят урон? Хорошей альтернативой ловушкам может стать лабиринт: дорожка в один блок шириной, добавочно засаженная деревьями. По такой дорожке враги идут, как в киселе: скорость раз в 10 меньше обычной, но при этом урон не получают (кроме, как от твоих стрелков, конечно).

GT:
Save scumming you don't use?
For example: just received an "attack": 15 bandits, not a single shooter. Shooting range! Tyr! One "minus": they came in the evening, when my whole team was already going to bed. So it’s tempting to load the save 5 hours earlier, so that the weakest shooters can be put to sleep. And then let them train all night!
Don't traps deal damage? A good alternative to traps can be a maze: a one-block-wide path, additionally planted with trees. Enemies go along such a path, as if in jelly: the speed is 10 times less than usual, but they do not receive damage (except from your shooters, of course).
Oragepoilu May 28, 2023 @ 3:06am 
I don't always save scum, I keep going. Lost some trained people because of this. Also restarted because of this, but I keep trying a few time and restarted only because I was totally overpowered. I do not reload before the raid.

Yeah traps do some damage, but "stick trap" (tier 1) do only a ridiculous tiny amount of damage. People with light armor can walk trough 50 stick trap and be fine, meanwhile the "metal trap" (tier 3) really kill people fast and usually mangle their leg before straight up killing them.

It does cost a lot of Iron tho, and I'm playing on the map with the least amount of Iron. im currently doing some caravan trip just to buy more Iron.
Originally posted by Oragepoilu:
I don't always save scum, I keep going. Lost some trained people because of this.
Save scumming - не совсем то, что у тебя описано. Я имел в виду именно то, что написал в примере: зная, что будет нападение (ночью!), положить нескольких людей спать, чтобы они могли подольше стоять на ногах.
А вообще в этой игре проявлять принципиальность с сохранениями, по-моему, не лучший выбор. Игра настолько не сбалансирована, ИИ настолько туп, что без загрузки сохранений иной раз просто не обойтись.

GT:
"Save scumming" is not exactly what you describe. I meant exactly what I wrote in the example: knowing that there will be an attack (at night!), put a few people to sleep so that they can stand on their feet longer.
In general, in this game, being principled with saves, in my opinion, is not the best choice. The game is so unbalanced, the AI is so stupid that sometimes you simply cannot do without loading saves.
Oragepoilu May 28, 2023 @ 4:25am 
The current definition of save scumming is know as "reloading a save with the goal to get a better outcome".

The act of saving often isn't being required in the definition since while it's obviously tied to your ability to load a game, your ability to save is game dependant (some allow you to save all the time, some allow you to save once, some don't allow you to save manually).

So yeah, what you do and what I do count as save scumming : You reload with the intent to get a better outcome knowing what will happen.

It doesn't really matter, like a lot of expression there is a lot of nuance you can pull from it but I think it's best to clear about it especially since GT isn't perfect.

While I agree with you on the state of the game balance or of the AI, I think most players can play and enjoy this game without needing to reload; Unlike rimworld where the game actively try to bring you down to create "story" and include an extreme variation of chalenges, here the only two chalenges are either archers (metal trap solve this on it's own with no further works for the player) and trebuchet (but I'v disabled for now since it's incredibly bugged and is the only real fully unfair part of the game).

Even if you fail the game actively give you more colonists up to a soft/hard cap, and the amount of raider is directly tied to the amount of colonist present on your map when the raid occur.
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Date Posted: May 26, 2023 @ 11:19pm
Posts: 27