30XX
KaRMiG May 6, 2022 @ 3:38pm
PATCH 0.36: MY PERSONAL REVIEW
After getting sometime after work. I was testing the 0.36 patch and I'm capable to do an honest and reliable review.
NOTE: I'm not doing this review as any form of complaint or demand, Just to provide the feedback and contribute to the final build we all expect this game will be.
after making this clear, let's move on.

I'm and ACE-ONLY PLAYER, any possible bugs found and this review were while playing as Ace.

BUGS FOUND:
- The bug that gets you stuck at the edge of each platform is still present
- in the ascent, the comets falling during the Hoot Omega boss fight sometimes don't hit the player when is supposed to. hit detection needs to be fixed.
so far no other bugs found

POINTS OF INTERESTS:
- Some enemies are damage sponges and has a lot of stamina even at earlier levels
compared to all enemies in that stage, By example the Robot workers at Dustria, and the small enemies with robes at Penumbra.
- Mines at watergrav should have some kind of angle when hit. they look weird flying so straight when they fly from a hit.
- Watergrav shows no changes and it's still as frustrating as before.
- the background music at penumbra was modified, why? it was perfect
- the Economy system is now very hard, despite we have a difficulty setting also affecting this, no shop smasher means extreme poverty almost all the run.
- some backgrounds like Penumbra and ascent change in a harsh and brusque way
- some levels gets generated in an almost impossible way of getting unharmed (ex: Deepverse, penumbra and the ascent, tempo Stage Mini-boss. I've had very bad moments, despite my skill)
- some be swift challenges are impossible to complete due to very powerful enemies with plenty of stamina (Dustria)
- Gautlets sometimes are completely missed from runs
- if you don't have at last 12 to 15 attack power, you will not survive at the last 3 boss fights with Zen Primus, Legacy or Absolution.
- Potentia fragments are useless as the skill shop only requires memoria
- sometimes despite killing a boss or mini-boss, despite being fast and or without damage, you only get 1 memoria
- some prototypes found in very safe labs have such high and negative side effects that
don't worth the risk instead of being fun. they do not follow the "entirely beneficial" description.
- sometimes, glory zone challenges have better rewards at bronze than Gold

MY PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT THE GAME AFTER THIS PATCH
The changes and the additions are welcome, Runs were fun and the option to choose nuts and aug or skill, are very fun and welcome, but some other problems persist.
some other changes are too exaggerated like that brutal Nerf done to the Renewal pod, as now is virtually useless and is more like a cosmetic, until properly re-balanced is best to re-roll it or avoid it. another thing is that the economy is now the one of a third world country and now you have to choose very carefully at the shop. this makes the upgrade for the shop item count a waste of memoria.

CONCLUSION:
we are slowly getting there and the devs still have a lot to do.
in my opinion the renewal pod should be rarer o have it available at later levels instead of that brutal nerf that made it virtually unusable.
Runs shall be re-balanced in terms of not arriving at late levels with such a low attack power that you loose all hope.
as a Rogue-like game, this shall be fun and rewarding, despite being hard, that can be solved re-balancing and adding more items and augs to make every run unique.
Thanks for reading.
Last edited by KaRMiG; May 6, 2022 @ 3:57pm
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Deathraven13 May 6, 2022 @ 6:40pm 
Originally posted by KaRMiG:
I'm and ACE-ONLY PLAYER,

...I'm sorry but that's usualy where I would stop reading and not taking you seriously, if you only play Ace you can't review the game in it's overall, it's like if you've played DMC4/5 and only played Nero's part.

I'll keep on reading as I'm curious to see what you'll write and I'll comment at the same time.

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- the Economy system is now very hard, despite we have a difficulty setting also affecting this, no shop smasher means extreme poverty almost all the run.

I see no issues here, what's the problem ? (you are not supposed to be super rich).

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- The bug that gets you stuck at the edge of each platform is still present

Can you show us a video of that bug ? Maybe i'll be able to pinpoint the problem (and maybe fix it with some help, no promise tho since everyone is busy).

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- some levels gets generated in an almost impossible way of getting unharmed (ex: Deepverse, penumbra and the ascent, tempo Stage Mini-boss. I've had very bad moments, despite my skill)

"Impossible" as Ace I assume, Ace was always the risk reward character so with Nina that would have been different, or not ? (If you have a video I wouldn't mind).

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- if you don't have at last 12 to 15 attack power, you will not survive at the last 3 boss fights with Zen Primus, Legacy or Absolution.

I can no hit Zen (you need to time your dashes right), of course with Nina it's easier but at least you can afford to get hit unlike in some DMC games in hell & hell mode........ wich is a great mode. Show that Gorilla you can dash !

Legacy as Ace is trickier if you want to no hit but it's still possible,

Absolution as Ace is trickier, you really need to learn the paterns , it's far easier as Nina for sure, but it's not impossible to beat it with Ace if you want a no hit run.

My advice is that you play as Nina and learn the boss patterns first, Ace is too risky if you don't have some knowledge of the game, just like playing Zero in MMZ series take some time to S rank because Zero as a short range with his Z-saber and X is less risk reward in the megaman series because he does have multiple abilities that are long ranged, while Zero do have some skills like a flaming upper slash that can coonect with an ennemie meaning that you'll take damage. So while Ace is more challenging to fight such boss it's not impossible.

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- Potentia fragments are useless as the skill shop only requires memoria

????

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- some prototypes found in very safe labs have such high and negative side effects that
don't worth the risk instead of being fun. they do not follow the "entirely beneficial" description.

Like in 20XX you mean, You don't need them so don't use them like I do. :marathon:

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
MY PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT THE GAME AFTER THIS PATCH
The changes and the additions are welcome, Runs were fun and the option to choose nuts and aug or skill, are very fun and welcome, but some other problems persist.
some other changes are too exaggerated like that brutal Nerf done to the Renewal pod, as now is virtually useless and is more like a cosmetic, until properly re-balanced is best to re-roll it or avoid it. another thing is that the economy is now the one of a third world country and now you have to choose very carefully at the shop. this makes the upgrade for the shop item count a waste of memoria.

Renewal pod is fine this way TBH, same as having to chose your upgrade carefuly in the shop, you are not supposed to buy all items.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've read the conclusion, but in the end i was right: you can't comment on the whole game if you've only played with 1 character, Nina can do things that Ace can't and vice versa, so if you make the game easier because you use a character that, no offense, requiere more skill & knowledge than Nina, then it's definitly not a good thing because the game will be way more easy as Nina, yes it's hard to balance 2 characters with one being ranged and the other not so much but that's not a reason to make the game not very challenging with one character. I could write how it would be possible to balance Ace more rather than balance the whole game but this isn't the topic (and I'm not hired by the devs to playtest their game), in the end your problem is playing Ace without knowing boss patterns and while it's true that Ace have more difficulties in situations that Nina does not......... play Nina and learn the boss pattern then you'll see what I'm talking about (no need to do a no hit run tho, you don't have to be like me lol, Platinium games, DMC, MGR, Bayonetta......... I just love almost impossible challenges you know :p)

Well I hope that help you. Tell me what you thing of this build once you've done some runs with Nina.
KaRMiG May 7, 2022 @ 8:47pm 
Originally posted by Deathraven13:
Originally posted by KaRMiG:
I'm and ACE-ONLY PLAYER,

...I'm sorry but that's usualy where I would stop reading and not taking you seriously, if you only play Ace you can't review the game in it's overall, it's like if you've played DMC4/5 and only played Nero's part.

I'll keep on reading as I'm curious to see what you'll write and I'll comment at the same time.

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- the Economy system is now very hard, despite we have a difficulty setting also affecting this, no shop smasher means extreme poverty almost all the run.

I see no issues here, what's the problem ? (you are not supposed to be super rich).

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- The bug that gets you stuck at the edge of each platform is still present

Can you show us a video of that bug ? Maybe i'll be able to pinpoint the problem (and maybe fix it with some help, no promise tho since everyone is busy).

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- some levels gets generated in an almost impossible way of getting unharmed (ex: Deepverse, penumbra and the ascent, tempo Stage Mini-boss. I've had very bad moments, despite my skill)

"Impossible" as Ace I assume, Ace was always the risk reward character so with Nina that would have been different, or not ? (If you have a video I wouldn't mind).

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- if you don't have at last 12 to 15 attack power, you will not survive at the last 3 boss fights with Zen Primus, Legacy or Absolution.

I can no hit Zen (you need to time your dashes right), of course with Nina it's easier but at least you can afford to get hit unlike in some DMC games in hell & hell mode........ wich is a great mode. Show that Gorilla you can dash !

Legacy as Ace is trickier if you want to no hit but it's still possible,

Absolution as Ace is trickier, you really need to learn the paterns , it's far easier as Nina for sure, but it's not impossible to beat it with Ace if you want a no hit run.

My advice is that you play as Nina and learn the boss patterns first, Ace is too risky if you don't have some knowledge of the game, just like playing Zero in MMZ series take some time to S rank because Zero as a short range with his Z-saber and X is less risk reward in the megaman series because he does have multiple abilities that are long ranged, while Zero do have some skills like a flaming upper slash that can coonect with an ennemie meaning that you'll take damage. So while Ace is more challenging to fight such boss it's not impossible.

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- Potentia fragments are useless as the skill shop only requires memoria

????

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- some prototypes found in very safe labs have such high and negative side effects that
don't worth the risk instead of being fun. they do not follow the "entirely beneficial" description.

Like in 20XX you mean, You don't need them so don't use them like I do. :marathon:

Originally posted by KaRMiG:
MY PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT THE GAME AFTER THIS PATCH
The changes and the additions are welcome, Runs were fun and the option to choose nuts and aug or skill, are very fun and welcome, but some other problems persist.
some other changes are too exaggerated like that brutal Nerf done to the Renewal pod, as now is virtually useless and is more like a cosmetic, until properly re-balanced is best to re-roll it or avoid it. another thing is that the economy is now the one of a third world country and now you have to choose very carefully at the shop. this makes the upgrade for the shop item count a waste of memoria.

Renewal pod is fine this way TBH, same as having to chose your upgrade carefuly in the shop, you are not supposed to buy all items.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've read the conclusion, but in the end i was right: you can't comment on the whole game if you've only played with 1 character, Nina can do things that Ace can't and vice versa, so if you make the game easier because you use a character that, no offense, requiere more skill & knowledge than Nina, then it's definitly not a good thing because the game will be way more easy as Nina, yes it's hard to balance 2 characters with one being ranged and the other not so much but that's not a reason to make the game not very challenging with one character. I could write how it would be possible to balance Ace more rather than balance the whole game but this isn't the topic (and I'm not hired by the devs to playtest their game), in the end your problem is playing Ace without knowing boss patterns and while it's true that Ace have more difficulties in situations that Nina does not......... play Nina and learn the boss pattern then you'll see what I'm talking about (no need to do a no hit run tho, you don't have to be like me lol, Platinium games, DMC, MGR, Bayonetta......... I just love almost impossible challenges you know :p)

Well I hope that help you. Tell me what you thing of this build once you've done some runs with Nina.
you are a very rude guy.
I don't care if you red it or not, this review like said in the post was for feedback to developper, not for you.
second
Deathraven13 May 8, 2022 @ 5:44am 
Originally posted by KaRMiG:
you are a very rude guy.
I don't care if you red it or not, this review like said in the post was for feedback to developper, not for you.
second

I believe that you didn't finish your reply, or you wanted it to finish with "second" ?
mna99 May 8, 2022 @ 7:00am 
Originally posted by KaRMiG:
- Some enemies are damage sponges and has a lot of stamina even at earlier levels
compared to all enemies in that stage, By example the Robot workers at Dustria, and the small enemies with robes at Penumbra.

Those enemies didn't gain any hp in the new build that I know of. You might be doing less damage, but . . .

Mines at watergrav should have some kind of angle when hit. they look weird flying so straight when they fly from a hit.

Originally they didn't move at all. Now the developer seems to be using them as an option to clear out certain groups of enemies if you choose to hit them when their eyes are open. They would have to redesign those encounters to accommodate more directions of movement.

Watergrav shows no changes and it's still as frustrating as before.

You don't think the changes to the mines helped some?

- the Economy system is now very hard, despite we have a difficulty setting also affecting this, no shop smasher means extreme poverty almost all the run.

I just got Shopsmasher on a run. Playing as Ace. But yeah there are fewer nuts now, and the game can feel a little stripped-out. It's the combination of fewer nuts overall, very little dropping in the gauntlets (which were handing out cash like crazy), and the glut of new mods that don't necessarily help a typical Ace build.

- some levels gets generated in an almost impossible way of getting unharmed (ex: Deepverse, penumbra and the ascent, tempo Stage Mini-boss. I've had very bad moments, despite my skill)

Since you're running Ace, try to get at least Zen Ascent and Echo Shell before you attempt Penumbra.

- some be swift challenges are impossible to complete due to very powerful enemies with plenty of stamina (Dustria)

Gotta agree there. Some of the swift challenges are a bit on the stupid side. They appear to be designed for people with leg cores/augs.

- Gautlets sometimes are completely missed from runs

This is a common feature. You won't get four gauntlets all the time. It was happening before 3.6 . Not sure if that's a good thing, but it happens . . .

- if you don't have at last 12 to 15 attack power, you will not survive at the last 3 boss fights with Zen Primus, Legacy or Absolution.

Legacy is easy, not sure why you wouldn't walk all over him even with low ATK. The only attack he has that's worth a darn is when his drones spit out sparks. The others, you can manage it.

That being said, by that point in the run, you should have accumulated a fair amount of ATK or PWR (or both). I did have one run as Ace in this version where I was struggled to get relevant augs. And it would make bosses less of a cakewalk if you can't put together a good build by level 6.

- Potentia fragments are useless as the skill shop only requires memoria

Many players have complained about Potentia losing its value quickly. The devs will be making changes to the system later. Maybe.

- sometimes despite killing a boss or mini-boss, despite being fast and or without damage, you only get 1 memoria

Also a very old complaint. It's not clear why Memoria rewards vary.

- some prototypes found in very safe labs have such high and negative side effects that
don't worth the risk instead of being fun. they do not follow the "entirely beneficial" description.

The "entirely beneficial" thing is just a joke. Obviously they are not entirely beneficial unless you can get the penalties cleaned up later.

You aren't entirely wrong though. Some of the benefits are pathetically weak, like . . . full HP at the end of a level! Why would anyone take that? Only way that makes any sense is if you use it in combination with the reduced healing penalty from another prototype, in which case they would (sort of) cancel each other out. But in a vacuum that benefit is pretty terrible, so no downside would be worth it.

There are a few prototypes that are fun from a risk/reward scenario, like Contractor Beta, that I will take nearly any time that I see it (even if I do occasionally suffer from it). Those are easily the best ones.

- sometimes, glory zone challenges have better rewards at bronze than Gold

That's been a thing ever since glory zones offered a choice of rewards (there didn't use to be a choice). The bronze and silver are meant to be cores, while gold is just a random aug thrown in to give you an alternative to cores in case you have too few core points or just don't like what's on offer. There is no guarantee that silver or gold choices will be better for your build, or even in general.

brutal Nerf done to the Renewal pod, as now is virtually useless and is more like a cosmetic

I have used it twice since the patch and while it's less amazing, it's still pretty useful. Get it early in a run and it will easily pay for itself in extra nuts. The old version was ridiculously OP. I would get 5-10 slot tokens from it in a run, plus tons of nuts.

another thing is that the economy is now the one of a third world country

The combination of gauntlet enemies dropping nuts and the old Renewal Pod (plus some other stuff) made money too easy. You could buy out the entire store with lots of items up for sale. If you had Shopsmasher and Shopaholic it got a little silly. I enjoyed it! Don't get me wrong. But that had to end eventually.

They did lower nut drop rate in later levels a little too much, and they keep adding augs that aren't as immediately useful as stuff like Thorned Hull, Juiced Reserves, and Nutholder's Might. Get too many of the new "interesting" augs and you'll be struggling to put together a winning build. I have experienced this problem even without increasing difficulty, and actually failed on a run for the first time in awhile playing Ace.

Nina does not currently have any major problems since Autodrone is so incredibly good. Among other things.

Runs shall be re-balanced in terms of not arriving at late levels with such a low attack power that you loose all hope.

They may need to start dropping a few extra +2 ATK/+3 PWR augs here and there. Not sure how that would be balanced against the current item economy. Perhaps they could do it if your ATK and PWR are below a certain point past level 4 or level 5, but at the same time, if you had choices to get better PWR and ATK earlier in the run and you just picked something else . . . should the game help you anyway?

as a Rogue-like game, this shall be fun and rewarding, despite being hard, that can be solved re-balancing and adding more items and augs to make every run unique.
Thanks for reading.

On the contrary, the currently expanding selection of augs is watering down the aug pool and making it harder to get the older augs that consistently made runs work. I'm not sure I want an aug that makes my next power gain up to +100% damage after I land attacks when I could have just gotten Juiced Reserves (or similar) instead. It's nice to have some variety, but it's bad when the best augs you get come together to form a build that's unworkable.
Deathraven13 May 8, 2022 @ 7:49am 
Originally posted by mna99:
On the contrary, the currently expanding selection of augs is watering down the aug pool and making it harder to get the older augs that consistently made runs work. I'm not sure I want an aug that makes my next power gain up to +100% damage after I land attacks when I could have just gotten Juiced Reserves (or similar) instead. It's nice to have some variety, but it's bad when the best augs you get come together to form a build that's unworkable.

Well that's the roguelike style just like in 20XX, you always have some kind of RNG so you have to do with what you have, technicaly you requiere no upgrade at all it just that they make things easier.
mna99 May 11, 2022 @ 4:15am 
Originally posted by Deathraven13:
Well that's the roguelike style just like in 20XX, you always have some kind of RNG so you have to do with what you have, technicaly you requiere no upgrade at all it just that they make things easier.

20XX gave you tools to narrow down your aug selection once you had them all unlocked (which we do by default in 30XX, at least during this alpha period). The alpha is going to become increasingly unwieldly unless we get some similar tools.

Might be a fun way to burn up all that spare Potentia.
Deathraven13 May 11, 2022 @ 6:19am 
Originally posted by mna99:
Originally posted by Deathraven13:
Well that's the roguelike style just like in 20XX, you always have some kind of RNG so you have to do with what you have, technicaly you requiere no upgrade at all it just that they make things easier.

20XX gave you tools to narrow down your aug selection once you had them all unlocked (which we do by default in 30XX, at least during this alpha period). The alpha is going to become increasingly unwieldly unless we get some similar tools.

Might be a fun way to burn up all that spare Potentia.

Well that's part of the roguelike elements, a buff is a buff regardless and you can always complete a run vanilla.

Honestly the game isn't that hard (granted I do have experience with Megaman games, MMZ series and 20XX but aside the first few runs to learn the game and patterns the game is pretty easy by default).

Runs are not supposed to be the same so if you could decide all the stuff you'll get then there is less roguelike elements, better play with a seed then if you want to have the same maps and gear (not that I've tested it in 30XX).
The be swift weapon shrines are awful with Ace's kit. The margins for error are too dependent on lucky aug combo's. I think kills made as Ace in these shrines should roll the timer back a second or so.

This would give him a fairer chance at beating these since he doesn't have Nina's screen clearing capacity while giving him some room to maneuver around enemies with invulnerability periods such as Watergrav's Turtle or Echo Beast's Moles. It would also keep the timer compatible with Nina in coop.

Does the renewal pod even scale with the number of times it's picked up now? I haven't noticed a difference between having a level 1 pod and a level 4 + zookeeper pod. The nerf would be more reasonable if it still scaled.
mna99 May 18, 2022 @ 4:08am 
Originally posted by Deathraven13:
Honestly the game isn't that hard

The question is whether or not the current aug selection gives Ace an even chance to finish a run on default difficulty. In earlier Alpha builds it certainly did, but the latest build seems to trend away from that direction. You can still string together some ugly high-ATK madness with Ace, and he can now run a PWR build more-legitimately than before, but gone are the days where having 30+ ATK on every run was basically a lock. Plus you used to get the crown a lot, which was really handy since he used to be able to make himself invulnerable much of the time even with an ATK build (now you just run out of NRG).
Deathraven13 May 18, 2022 @ 5:23am 
Originally posted by mna99:
Originally posted by Deathraven13:
Honestly the game isn't that hard

The question is whether or not the current aug selection gives Ace an even chance to finish a run on default difficulty. In earlier Alpha builds it certainly did, but the latest build seems to trend away from that direction. You can still string together some ugly high-ATK madness with Ace, and he can now run a PWR build more-legitimately than before, but gone are the days where having 30+ ATK on every run was basically a lock. Plus you used to get the crown a lot, which was really handy since he used to be able to make himself invulnerable much of the time even with an ATK build (now you just run out of NRG).

You've confirmed what I've said, the game is not very hard and so devs should nerf what they think need to, the thing is you can't really balance Ace as if she was Nina, Ace is a character that should be used by people good at the game who know the game, or very skilled player, while Nina is more newbie/low skill friendly.

Since OP only use Ace they can't see that the issue is not Ace or the upgrade but themselves, as mentionned they do believe that some bosses are impossible if you don't burst them before you die yet that's not the case, so they want devs to make the game even more easier so that they can keep playing Ace without improving themselves, the thing is that there are some really good Ace players who can clear the game with certain restrictions so saying that it's impossible to beat some boss if you don't have X amount of this or that is wrong.

Some people also said that some run are impossible because they don't get some equipment, they are wrong of course but people can beat the game without much effort so such balance is welcome, the game is not that hard at all and you can beat bosses easily once you know the patern, I mean it's like in 20XX (well 30XX have mini bosses but it's patterns too), so the issue is not Ace nor the upgrade, if OP played Nina and learned boss patterns and improved over time by playing more they may see that I'm right.
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Date Posted: May 6, 2022 @ 3:38pm
Posts: 10