What's the Best Way To Handle Upgrading Skills?

[Armads]

So I've been trying to plan out how I upgrade skills, in that I've been trying to only upgrade the skills that I need to upgrade to add them to the tree, so I can get the next soul piece and upgrade those.

However this has resulted in me having a bunch of lessons I can't use at the moment, and I'm worried that Numa is going to hit and erase them all and doom this run entirely.

So should I just be using them to upgrade the skills, even though I have already used them on the tree at lower levels and used them to upgrade the soul parts, even though I can't use them for that again?

[Maina]

You can absolutely do it that way, and feel free if you find it fun

But honestly, I have done a run where I do it that min-max way, and I have done a run where I only spent lessons on the skill it was for (mostly because I didn't think to do it any other way).

And, you know what? The latter way was actually a much easier game, even if it was less efficient. My skills had way higher Aspects, which means it was a lot easier to craft and read books. Which is, honestly, more important than having more soul cards. You can always just wait another day for them to refresh.

My advice? Don't stress about minmaxing the skills unless you find that kind of thing fun. It isn't necessary. I'd argue it isn't even all that helpful.

Just upgrade whatever you want.

[Karlito]

Did you know you only need to match one of the aspects of the skill to use a lesson for upgrades? The lesson and skill don't need to have the same name.

There are some skills you might want to upgrade anyway for crafting.. Definitely better to use the lessons than lose them all in Numa.

[citablekettle]

Upgrading weak uncommitted skills lets you retrieve a reasonable number of lessons from them in Numa (starting at level 3, more than it took to upgrade them). The skills are not thereby lost if they were at least level 2.

[Armads]

Originally posted by Maina:

You can absolutely do it that way, and feel free if you find it fun

But honestly, I have done a run where I do it that min-max way, and I have done a run where I only spent lessons on the skill it was for (mostly because I didn't think to do it any other way).

And, you know what? The latter way was actually a much easier game, even if it was less efficient. My skills had way higher Aspects, which means it was a lot easier to craft and read books. Which is, honestly, more important than having more soul cards. You can always just wait another day for them to refresh.

My advice? Don't stress about minmaxing the skills unless you find that kind of thing fun. It isn't necessary. I'd argue it isn't even all that helpful.

Just upgrade whatever you want.

I tried that in one run and I basically ended up kinda softlocking myself, because I ended up putting a bunch of skills on the tree that don't have any upgrade points, and that meant I couldn't actually upgrade my soul cards, which meant I couldn't easily boost the people I hired to open more doors.

I had a different run where I tried to do as you did and only upgraded with their own thing, but the result was having a ton of weak skills and no real way to advance anything, since while I know you can use any lesson, you do still need A lesson.

But obviously since I don't really know what lessons spawn from what books, I have like 8 or 9 lessons that I'm not able to use to either get a new skill or upgrade an uncommitted skill so I can commit it.

For example, right now I am trying to upgrade rhyme and rejuvenation so I can slot it into level 4 birdsong, but I've got no lessons for moon or winter. And because of that, I am just sitting on random lessons and worried they're going to get wasted.

[Ashley]

For what it's worth, don't worry too much about skill evolutions being impossible; I'm not 100% sure if it's exclusive to the beta branch, but there's an interesting workaround for that now.

Take a look at some of the more high-level crafted memories, some of them have an 'evolves with' aspect, that lets you use them to evolve skill/soul combos that wouldn't normally have a bench that they can work with.

That said, don't feel too bad about upgrading some skills even if they're not going into the tree. You're not really expected to fully 100% the entire tree in one playthrough anyway (I think, at least), and I do sometimes like to upgrade skills just because it makes crafting with them more convenient. I love having high level Lockworks & Clockworks for example, for easily turning glass into metal without needing to scrounge up a Knock mood.

That, or just looking at skills that have one aspect that you need a lot more of to reliably read books, and upgrade that...

Generally I'd say the pressure's low enough that there aren't too many disastrously wrong choices you can make. :)

[Armads]

Originally posted by Ashley:

For what it's worth, don't worry too much about skill evolutions being impossible; I'm not 100% sure if it's exclusive to the beta branch, but there's an interesting workaround for that now.

Take a look at some of the more high-level crafted memories, some of them have an 'evolves with' aspect, that lets you use them to evolve skill/soul combos that wouldn't normally have a bench that they can work with.

That said, don't feel too bad about upgrading some skills even if they're not going into the tree. You're not really expected to fully 100% the entire tree in one playthrough anyway (I think, at least), and I do sometimes like to upgrade skills just because it makes crafting with them more convenient. I love having high level Lockworks & Clockworks for example, for easily turning glass into metal without needing to scrounge up a Knock mood.

That, or just looking at skills that have one aspect that you need a lot more of to reliably read books, and upgrade that...

Generally I'd say the pressure's low enough that there aren't too many disastrously wrong choices you can make. :)

See, I'm not sure that I'd agree with that? The pressure is extremely high in this game to avoid what seems to be impossible softlock situations. Most of this is due to the fact that you'll end up in places where you can't progress at all because you can't upgrade anything, won't have any books, and and can't exalt help to get any further.

I'd like to say that this was a casual, no pressure game but after 60 hours this feels a lot closer to trying to manage Eve Online than anything else, and that's not a good thing.

[Reshemin]

I sincerely do get the feeling the pressure is yours here. Just my two lines:

Having a load of Soul Aspect cards is of course helpful, but quite secondary. I don't have any Soul cards maxed, I am, in fact, right now doing a bunch of Scholar- and Keeper-level Knock recipes, and I am doing that not even with my one, lonely, singular, never upgraded Shapt card... I can use about anything else and still could set up an industrial-style production line for Sacrament Ascite.

The relevant thing here is that whatever you create first depends on the Skills you use. So you first need to learn which skills give you what, then level a selection of these high enough to cater to your needs. Levelling attributes is more useful with unlocking rooms, but apart from that it's better having high (and hand-selected) Skills than Soul cards.

Ok, that's too many lines for two... but I really would like to direct your attention to citeablekettle's post above again. If you break down some (uncommitted!) level 5 skill in Numa then that's thirteen Joker Lessons out of that - Lessons, not Memories. Sure, you have to spend these in just one game day... but you can relevel the Skill afterwards, repeat that ad infinitum, and with the kind of 'profit' you make... and yes, technically, as in, if the game would have skill levels that high, it would just be a matter of time alone to get each and every Skill to 1337 - except for one, of course. :D

Which of course works only with uncommitted Skills, so...

There's a very fundamental difference here. I do the above, levelling the Skills however I like - and, from the very beginning, I only ever commit a Skill to the tree and get my Soul card if there is NO other way to get what or where I want. I avoid committing them like the plague and will only do that if I absolutely must.

And no, I am not feeling any pressure. :D

[Tom Diepstraten]

I commit whatever is convenient to the tree, rarely upgrade my soul cards, and haven't any issues beating the game several times (with real endings). Do I need 7 level 1 healths? No, but I can sure pick a lot of flowers during Numa haha

[Yimi]

In my last run, I didn't upgrade any soul cards until late in the game, and not really because I needed to. Upgrading soul cards is quite unnecessary, strong skills and a variety of items will fix most of your reading and room-unlocking needs. A few soul cards might be worth upgrading, Health and maybe Phost, or whatever you find convenient for your crafts. Having a lot of actions is much more powerful that having stronger soul cards.

As for optimising how you spend your lessons to fill up your Tree of Wisdom, I wouldn't mind TOO much, it is not that useful to fill it up completely. Eventually you'll have plenty of cards anyway, maybe not enough to fully level up those souls, but it doesn't matter because it wouldn't help you progress the game anyway.

[Grennan]

When I get to 3-4 of a soul card, I'll do one +, but you can achieve any victory without ever upgrading a soul card and I've found I'd much rather have the extra cards than the ++ most of the time.

If there's a soul card I'm particularly short on then I'll try to prioritize getting a skill slotted to unlock more of it, but otherwise I just try to use the lessons as they come in, either to bump a skill toward a possible slot, or to increase the more useful crafting skills.

I do try to keep one unslotted skill in the 4-6 range for respec, and try to make sure I have no lessons left when Numa rolls around; it's not critical, just more efficient to use them first.

If I haven't had a recent Numa, this means I go in waves: read books in the first few days, then furiously slot skills before month end. But if I get caught, eh, worst case is I spend a few extra hours at the end of the game waiting for one more Numa, and maybe picking up a few auction books along the way.

[Ten4]

If your stuck you can just open the game files and buff the skill or soul trait you need.

[Runix]

Originally posted by Armads:

The pressure is extremely high in this game to avoid what seems to be impossible softlock situations. Most of this is due to the fact that you'll end up in places where you can't progress at all because you can't upgrade anything, won't have any books, and and can't exalt help to get any further.

I agree that it can be easy to feel like you're soft-locked, particularly early in the game. I do think there should be a few more options of helping new players out of awkward early-game situations. My tips for avoiding soft-locks:

• Early on, you should focus on slotting in skills to your tree that will help you fill out your set of souls, so that you have one or two of each. You really don't have to min-max for this, it's fine if one or two of the skills you slot in need to get upgraded later.
  
• Once you have enough soul cards to work with, upgrading skills is more important than combining souls. Don't sweat it if you don't have a good route to combining souls, it's more important for the end-game than the early game.
  
• A few good leveled up skills is more important than a zillion level 1 skills. I usually get one level in each skill just to make sure I have it available, but then use any lessons beyond that to upgrade the key skills I use most (Inks, Pyroglyphics, Glassblowing, anything with Nectar.)
  
• Be aware of all the assistants, what their base stats are, and which ones take which special items to boost their stats. Wait for the right weather (a lot more good weather cards during autumn and winter), then match it up with the right items and the right assistant, and you can get you into a lot of the main section of the house.
  
• Use the drinks and foods you encounter early on to boost your assistants to help unlock rooms. It's fine, there are plenty of other sources for consumables that come later on. I would be a bit careful of pouring out some of the really rare stuff like the 6 stat beverages (and I wouldn't use fabrics or metals, which can be rare,) but anything in a wine bottle is fair game.
  
• Your Journal: Re-read it if you haven't done so yet. After you arrive at the village and get it dried out, you can read it once more to get a few basic skill cards that will help you get started.
  
• Special assistants: Put both a soul card and money into the inn and it will unlock special assistants, who have both much higher stats and take special items. They're a random roll and a lot more expensive, but you don't have to commit the money until you see who's available. Combined with just the weather, they can get you into most of the main section of the house if you're struggling to do so with just the basic assistants.
  
• Late-game room unlocks: My usual approach for the really difficult rooms is usually a special assistant and a matching memory, soul card, drink, and tool. That alone gets to around 11 stats, and that can be further boosted by upgrading to a crafted memory or using a special item specific to the helper.
  
• As a last resort, you can always pick stuff up off the beach. You can also wait for visitors to come and read your books and then use the currency to buy new ones if you're struggling to find something readable.