Skills too high, locking out recipes

[Lizstar]

I recently got Edicts Martial up to level 5, which brings its moon to 6 and its edge to 5. Edicts Martial is, as far as I can tell, the only source of the memory Old Wound, which is gotten from its 5-challenge crafting. Now that the edge is level 5 however, it overwrites the moon, even though that's the highest number. I guess cause Edge is the furthest to the left?? I dunno.

Either way, this basically makes it impossible for me to get this relatively useful memory. It's not EXACTLY impossible. I could bring the craft up to 10, without fulfilling the 10 difficulty requirement, which is memories. And that's the easiest way to get it to 10, is memories. Every other way is kinda rough.

It's not locked out, but it feels bad because I HAVE what's required, it just straight up won't let me use it the way I want to use it. Not sure how it'd be possible to swap between them though. Has anyone found a way around this kinda issue?

[darkling235]

Are all your skills + 10? Just use a non aspect specific soul card to cut yourself down. The skill determines the product, not what soul card you use.

[gunroot2525]

Originally posted by darkling235:

Are all your skills + 10? Just use a non aspect specific soul card to cut yourself down. The skill determines the product, not what soul card you use.

Since there's a hierarchy of symbols, the fact that moon is above 5 locks him out of the level 5 edge recipe.

[HappyIguana]

There is no way around it. It would be nice if workbenches that only allow certain aspects would only allow recipes of those aspects, so as to avoid this issue. I have run into it in a few places and getting a skill to level 10 (or for some skills, even level 9) would make it even worse.

[citablekettle]

Locking down by workbench removes interesting puzzles. The proper solution is to prioritize Principles that have higher total intensity, search for matching recipes in descending order of Principle intensity.

[Wereducky]

In doing a bit of testing, it does appear to check the leftmost(first alphabetically) aspect of the skill first, and the intensity of aspects does not matter if both aspects are above 5. It doesn't matter what is placed in other slots to change the balance of aspects unless one reaches the 10 threshold.

The intuitive expectation is that higher aspects would take precedence but that seems not to be the case. For now, it seems like the best option is to not upgrade that skill you depend on for that craft, and build up another for those higher aspect numbers.

Hopefully Weather Factory can change up the crafting logic in the future to favor the highest aspect in the crafting table and avoid some skills losing usefulness when they level up. As it stands, a skill can be leveled up to the point of making it's 5 aspect craft cost 10 and that definitely feels bad

[Tubers]

I agree about the changes to crafting logic, but the problem also seems to be that there is only one skill that can produce Old Wound (according to the community sheet), which is a super useful memory. Is that the case for any other crafting recipes?

[Stim The One]

Add more edge to reach 10 of the aspect. It will let you make it (and give the hint of what you need for level 10)

[Rithrin]

Originally posted by Tubers:

I agree about the changes to crafting logic, but the problem also seems to be that there is only one skill that can produce Old Wound (according to the community sheet), which is a super useful memory. Is that the case for any other crafting recipes?

Yeah, there's others I believe. There are many skills that seem to have unique crafting trees.

For now, here's a reliable way to get Old Moment without any books or skills necessary: After reaching the top of the Gullscry Tower, you can hatch the oversized egg into a tortoise (Called "Living Ancient"), and interacting with that tortoise using Talk and any Soul card, the experience will provide you with an Old Moment. Then all you have to do is feed him again after.

[Wlerin]

Originally posted by gunroot2525:

Originally posted by darkling235:

Are all your skills + 10? Just use a non aspect specific soul card to cut yourself down. The skill determines the product, not what soul card you use.

Since there's a hierarchy of symbols, the fact that moon is above 5 locks him out of the level 5 edge recipe.

Most if not all recipes can be done with multiple skills. That said what Stim The One said also works. Look up at the title to see what you'll actually be crafting.

Originally posted by Tubers:

I agree about the changes to crafting logic, but the problem also seems to be that there is only one skill that can produce Old Wound (according to the community sheet), which is a super useful memory. Is that the case for any other crafting recipes?

Assuming you mean Old Moment,
1) That's a Scholar-Level recipe. The issue only exists afaik for Prentice-level recipes.
2) There's at least three skills that can produce it. Edicts Martial, Coil & Chasm, Disciplines of the Scar

[somebodybond]

Yeah, if you get to (for example) Moon 10 and don't include the ingredient needed for the Moon 10 craft, I bet you get the Moon 5 craft and can bypass this issue. Haven't tried it myself yet, but it would make sense. It's not elegant, though, I agree.

Also note that the crafting spreadsheet is far from complete; I would emphasize that Edicts Martial is the only crafting source of that memory that we know of so far. We know that some skills have off-principle crafts; even if we've checked all the Moon skills, it could be available from a non-Moon skill that we haven't identified yet.

[Wlerin]

Originally posted by Lizstar:

I recently got Edicts Martial up to level 5, which brings its moon to 6 and its edge to 5. Edicts Martial is, as far as I can tell, the only source of the memory Old Wound, which is gotten from its 5-challenge crafting. Now that the edge is level 5 however, it overwrites the moon, even though that's the highest number. I guess cause Edge is the furthest to the left?? I dunno.

Edge 5 + Edicts Martial makes Labhitic Tincture. Sounds like whatever source you're consulting is mistaken (probably mixed up with Old Moment, which is Edge/Scale 10 + Memory and can be crafted with multiple skills).

[rpgfreakiod]

The thing I find really annoying is if you master the skill, it locks you out of the other aspect all together. Now I'm not sure if the ingredients for the 10 craft can affect this, but 1 really annoying example is Pyroglyphics which at mastery is 10 Forge/9 Lantern, and both of its 10 crafts use a Liquid, so once it is mastered you can no longer make Iotic with it, just Xanthotic Essence. I'm sure there are more skills that can make Iotic Essence, but it is annoying that mastering a skill seems to punish you like that.

Is there even much of a point to mastering a skill other than more aspect in it? I know aspects are super important, but it seems like a really bad deal if that is all it gives you, 1 more point, but you can no longer craft the sub aspect.

[Tubers]

Originally posted by Wlerin:

Originally posted by Lizstar:

I recently got Edicts Martial up to level 5, which brings its moon to 6 and its edge to 5. Edicts Martial is, as far as I can tell, the only source of the memory Old Wound, which is gotten from its 5-challenge crafting. Now that the edge is level 5 however, it overwrites the moon, even though that's the highest number. I guess cause Edge is the furthest to the left?? I dunno.

Edge 5 + Edicts Martial makes Labhitic Tincture. Sounds like whatever source you're consulting is mistaken (probably mixed up with Old Moment, which is Edge/Scale 10 + Memory and can be crafted with multiple skills).

Edicts Martial and 5 Moon makes an Old Wound, a Edge1 Moon2 Winter3 memory.

Originally posted by Wlerin:

Assuming you mean Old Moment,
1) That's a Scholar-Level recipe. The issue only exists afaik for Prentice-level recipes.
2) There's at least three skills that can produce it. Edicts Martial, Coil & Chasm, Disciplines of the Scar

As above, we’re talking here about Old Wound, not Old Moment. It requires 5 Moon, which gets superseded when the skill passes 5 Edge.

[Wlerin]

That's... extremely easy for a 3 Aspect memory. Perhaps precisely because you can lock yourself out of it.

[taggedjc]

You can de-level Edicts Martial to 1 by considering it during Numa. You'll even gain enough Many-Faceted Lessons to bring it back up to level 4 and have some spare to use for other skills!