Why no Love for new Principles?

[Izmister]

On The Tree of Wisdom we can see all the principles that were aspects in Cultist Simulator (Except for one), But none of the other principles that just came with this game. (Rose, Scale, Nectar, Sky, Moon). Were these left off for stylistic reasons? Is there something fundamental Lore wise that separates the 2 groups? or perhaps its just a reference to cultist simulator, if that were the case though I'd imagine that the tree representing some obscure mechanic would be less likely or odd.

Don't really expect the dev's to answer, so what d y'all think?

[Derpfen]

My initial thoughts on the matter were that the new principles were ones that no longer had Hour claim as a major aspect. Scale and Nectar seem like they correspond to the Wheel and to the Hour that the Grail usurped. Sky could fit there too, but that doesn't really make sense with Moon and Rose, since the Meniscate IS the moon, and Rose is a renamed Secret Histories.

Maybe they're minor principle, with only one Hour having them, and are therefor less powerful than the others, enough that they can't be used for ascension on their own. That could be why the Cultists didn't bother with them.

[Mango]

man i've only gotten through 25% of Hush House, but PERSONALLY i think these are "lesser" principles because they can be "derived" from the pre-existing aspects.

Like, Moon seems very Lantern-y to me. If the Sun is Lantern, and the Moon comes from the Sun, then you could say that Moon-aspect is the creation of Lantern-aspect and as a creation, it is not as important as its creator.

Nectar, which once was Blood, seems *very* Grail-y to me (Isn't the red color of Grail already evocative of blood? Not to mention that birth and cannibalism, both bloody subjects, are already included under Grail's umbrella).

Rose (not that I understand it that much) seems to be the principle of understanding and exploring all the nine "valid", "primary" principles. Again, its power comes from principles that already exist.

Not sure which principles could produce Scale and Sky; they strike me as linked to Gods-from-Stone tbh.

[Devilfish]

Originally posted by Mango:

Like, Moon seems very Lantern-y to me. If the Sun is Lantern, and the Moon comes from the Sun, then you could say that Moon-aspect is the creation of Lantern-aspect and as a creation, it is not as important as its creator.

But I just read a book that said the sun and moon are unrelated, the man was quite insistent

[Wintermute]

There are also mentions of nectar-Long, so those are fully powered occult aspects.

[Angry Obnoxious Goose]

I guess it's cuz one is your SOUL elements, and the Tree of Wisdom holds the 'paths' and shows how the various Soul elements and skills derived therefrom connect with those wisdom-paths.

[Halfshell]

I wonder if the new aspects are derived from nature. Plants, reptiles, birds and night. Rose though I'm unsure of, logically it'd be mammals including humans.

Only moon being night seems weak here. And by calling sky as birds sounds overly simple but I mean more "how do birds see the world flying from so far up high".

[Maina]

It is worth noting that AK has been avoiding calling them Principles. They may be something else entirely.

But, in my opinion:

1. They aren't new.
2. They aren't useful from an occult perspective.

Nectar is mostly useful for... cooking. And growing plants. That isn't a particularly useful skill set for an Adept.

Most of what Rose does, an Adept does with Secret Histories or Lantern or some other Lore that has other, more direct occult uses. Think about how you navigate in CS. Moth for forests, Lantern for finding secret ways, etc. They all do the same thing but can also be used for more potent effects like raising zombies or summoning spirits. Why bother with Rose as an Adept?

Moon covers keeping secrets, but an Adept is typically more interested in uncovering them. It's more useful for Librarians (and the Suppression Bureau).

Sky is similarly uninteresting to Adepts, who are more interested in the Mansus than the stars.

Generally, these psuedo-Principles seem geared around mundane life (useful for managing a library) and not so much being an Adept or seeking Long-hood. Makes sense that the Principles more directly related to the Occult are more directly related to the paths of knowledge relating to the Hours and Mansus and their powers.

And while some books may claim things like 'there are Nectar-Long' there are also books that claim there are only six Principles and Nectar is one because honeycomb has six sides. Guy's just a bee-nut trying to justify his bee addiction.

Kinda gotta take in-universe books as written by unreliable narrators.

[Halfshell]

Originally posted by Maina:

Generally, these psuedo-Principles seem geared around mundane life (useful for managing a library) and not so much being an Adept or seeking Long-hood. Makes sense that the Principles more directly related to the Occult are more directly related to the paths of knowledge relating to the Hours and Mansus and their powers.

I think you're onto something here, mundane was definitely the word I was searching for earlier. But, scale seems like something that would have been particularly useful to a cultist. Scale is the aspect I have had the least amount of success with, so naturally I can't speak to what uses it would have other than the potential for someone with malicious intent.