Am I just really unlucky, or...

[Elegant Caveman]

Finish tutorial. Start campaign. See three peasants. "Okay, that looks like a decent introductory noob fight." Hero gets killed by peasants.

Wat...?

Was playing on normal, Warlord hero, peasant got a crit, second peasant finished my hero off.

This was literally the first turn of the campaign. I didn't even have enough resources to build a temple to heal. Ended turn, built temple.

Not enough money to resurrect. Ended turn.

Resurrect. Now I need to heal, but healing apparently takes forever, only healing a few points at a time. It would have taken multiple turns of just sitting there and ending turn just to afford healing.

/ragequit

I'm already not impressed by the game (terrible UI, clunky gameplay, artwork is interesting but too "busy" and drab). Is there any point in my trying again? Does the game get better?

The combat's mediocre at best, so what's the draw? It's not the strategy/city building aspect, since that's pretty crappy too. I'm vaguely curious about the storyline, but not enough to really care.

[byzsla]

ionutz1280 eredeti hozzászólása:

I think the game has been changed and redone so many times that they completely messed up the balance. D2 was hard at times as well, but this is just ridiculous.

This is true. dat team since the beginning of making Disciples 3 repeatedly changed the philosophy of the battle (doing many bugs - eg. in 1.3 patch for D3:renaissance gaining exp fall to 10% relative 1.0 version). HEX team must quickly fix an incorrect model (eg. Cover in "D3: Resurrection" is activated before the attack the aggressor) and adapt all units. Before the bankruptcy of Akella HEX team find the source of many another bugs (patch was to be published in Clans addon; this addon was advanced works). Unfortunately happened what happened...

I'm curious, what do you mean by "fixed problem with exp"? What was it like before?

Example

Team A (Warrior Commandor + Squire + Acolyte + Archer) vs Team B (Squire + Acolyte + Archer)

In native game - any units get about 80 exp.
In my mod - any units get about 270 exp.

Standard way any units have EXP base (in stats file description) and this determines how many experience gives killing of unit and how many need EXP to promotion. So if another mod is reduction of EXP base for army of playable races this "fixes" a problem if you do not fight the armies of race (if eg. relations battlers Team A vs Team B to promotion is 30 that relations no change).

In my mod I use another way. I give any units individual, hide multiplier. I dont know how it works (eg Squire have in mod +100%, and gets not 160 but 270), but i can calibrate this multiplier for any units individual. My testers are very happy with this (polish Disciples community in disciples.pl <we live mainly in "forums chat" ;-) >)

[LarkinVB]

I guess your exp changes will make the hotseat maps much too easy. I played them all with the standard system and they were balanced fine or were even on the easy difficulty level.

[LarkinVB]

byzsla eredeti hozzászólása:

LarkinVB eredeti hozzászólása:

Where is your mod ?

Site with changelist (is polish) http://disciples.pl/viewtopic.php?t=1707&start=0
Site to download http://disciples.pl/dload.php?action=file&id=34

I'm still working on it and looking for ways to add new models of units, buildings, etc.

I can't see the direct download link on the page you provided.

[Janthis]

Just to clarify, I wasn't actually using your mod, I had been using the balance rework mod from Larkin and Mr_KBS. I will try yours next, as I don't think they work together.

[byzsla]

LarkinVB eredeti hozzászólása:

byzsla eredeti hozzászólása:

Site with changelist (is polish) http://disciples.pl/viewtopic.php?t=1707&start=0
Site to download http://disciples.pl/dload.php?action=file&id=34

I'm still working on it and looking for ways to add new models of units, buildings, etc.

I can't see the direct download link on the page you provided.

You must have account in forum.

[Janthis]

Regarding what I was talking about earlier - the elven marauder is a perfect example. He gets 2 shots, which often do critical damage, and his initiative is so high he will often get 2 turns before you've even moved once. That means he gets a total of 4 shots on me before I've even moved. And yet the xp he gives upon death is fairly low. Please, please tell me how that is "fair" and "balanced".

[byzsla]

Marauder vs Angel.

In normal game native game - no mods)

Marauder 2x shot in Angel. 2x52 dmg = 108 dmg
Angel move and defence.
Marauder muve and 2x shot in Angel. 26 dmg + 80 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 141 dmg.
Marauder 2x shot in Angel. 26 dmg + 80 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 141 dmg.
Angel strine ik Marauder. Miss.
Marauder want move. Angel use cover. 2x80 dmg (2x critic); 2x +30% critics premium. Angel use 2x skill 282 dmg. Marauder is dead.
Angel get 1012 exp.

Another situation (native game - no mods)

Marauder 2x shot in Angel. 2x80 dmg (critic) = 160 dmg. 2x +30% critics premium. Angel use 2x skill 282 dmg.
Angel move and defence.
Marauder 2x shot in Angel. 2x80 dmg (critic) = 160 dmg. 2x +30% critics premium. Angel use 2x skill 282 dmg. Marauder is dead.
Angel get 1012 exp.

In my mod

Marauder 2x shot in Angel. 2x58 dmg = 116 dmg
Angel strike in Marauder. 132 dmg
Marauder want move. Angel use cover. 116 dmg to Angel. 132 dmg to Marauder.
Angel strike in Marauder. 132 dmg
Marauder 2x shot in Angel. 58 dmg + 87 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 42 dmg. Marauder is dead.
Angel get 2277 exp.

Any problems?

[Janthis]

That's a 1 vs 1 scenario. But now consider a group with 2 marauders and 2 elven healers which give the marauders even more intiative. Consider that each marauder will go twice before your people have even moved, and one of your characters is dead (for ex. healer) before you could even do anything.

But no, the xp system really is messed up. I finished fighting a group of elves which were extremely annoying, killed 3 of my guys, and my group got about 200 xp each. Then we killed a deathdragon which was actually easy, took him down in 2 turns with no losses, got like 1000 xp each. It seems that it only cares about level and nothing else.

Doesn't matter anymore now because I just found a training camp and leveled the crap out of everyone, but it still seems weird. In fact, in every level I barely slogged along until I found a training camp and abused it. :)

[byzsla]

Scenario 2

Team A
Warrior-Leader (25lvl); Angel; Prophetess; Imperial Assassin (22lvl)

Team B
2x Marauder; Sylph; Sundancer

In normal game.

Marauder(1) 2x shot in Angel. 2x87 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 2x132 dmg.
Marauder(2) 2x shot in Angel. 2x87 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 2x132 dmg.
Imperial Assassin shot in Marauder(2). 102 dmg + toxic.
Sylph heal. Bonus for INI.
Marauder(2) 61 dmg (toxic); 2x shot in Angel. 2x87 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 2x132 dmg. Marauder(2) dead.
Marauder(1) 2x shot in Angel. 52 dmg + 87 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 132 dmg. Marauder(1)
Angel move and defence.
Prophetess heal.
Sundancer heal. Bonus for DMG.
Leader move and use skill. Bonus for INI
Imperial Assassin shot in Marauder(1). 102 dmg + toxic.
Marauder(1) 2x shot in Imperial Assassin. 2x85 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium.
Imperial Assassin shot in Marauder(1). 102 dmg and dead. Bonus for INI.
Angel strike in Sundancer. 176 dmg.
Sylph want move. Angel use cover. Heal, bonus for INI. Angel strike 88 dmg.
Imperial Assassin shot in Sylph. 102dmg + toxic.
Prophetess heal.
Angel strike in Sylph. Dead.
Sundancer heal. Bonus for DMG.
Leader strike in Sundancer. 159 dmg.
Imperial Assassin shot in Sundancer. 102 dmg.
Imperial Assassin shot in Sundancer. 102 dmg. Dead.

Award for winning: 3k. exp.

In my mod.

Marauder(1) 2x shot in Angel. 2x58 dmg = 116 dmg
Marauder(2) 2x shot in Angel. 58 dmg + 87 dmg (critic); +30% critics premium. Angel use skill 42 dmg.
Imperial Assassin move and shot in Marauder. 50 dmg + toxic.
Sylph heal. Bonus for INI.
Marauder(2) 45dmg (toxic); 2x shot in Leader. 2x58 dmg = 116 dmg.
Angel strike in Marauder(2). 132dmg.
Prophetess use skill on Angel. +2 cover.
Sundancer heal. Bonus for dmg.
Leader move to Angel. Use skill bonus for INI.
Angel strike in Sundancer. 176 dmg.
Marauder(2) 45dmg (toxic); move and 2x shot in Leader. 2x58 dmg = 116 dmg.
Angel strike in Sundancer. 176 dmg.
Marauder(1) want move. Angel use cover. 132dmg.
Prophetess heal.
Imperial Assassin shot in Sundancer. She's dead. Assassin give INI bonus.
Imperial Assassin shot in Marauder(1). 112 dmg (critic) + toxic.
Marauder(1) 45dmg (toxic); 2x shot in Prophetess. 2x72 dmg = 144 dmg
Marauder(2) 45dmg (toxic); 2x shot in Leader. 2x58 dmg = 116 dmg
Sylph heal. Bonus for INI.
Marauder(1) 45dmg (toxic); 2x shot in Prophetess. 2x72 dmg = 144 dmg
Marauder(2) 2x shot in Leader. 2x58 dmg = 116 dmg
Angel strike in Marauder(1), 196 dmg (critic). He's dead.
Imperial Assassin move and shot in Marauder(2). 75dmg + toxic.
Leader strike in Marauder(1). 254 dmg.
Prophetess move and heal.
Imperial Assassin shot in Marauder(2).
Marauder(2) 45dmg (toxic). Dead
Sylph heal. Bonus for INI.
Angel strike in Sylph. 88 dmg
Sylph heal. Bonus for INI.
Leader strike in Sylph and kills her (critic).

Award for winning: 7k. exp.

[byzsla]

Scenario AI vs AI.

[Janthis]

Well, the time I fought them they all targeted my leader during the first turn and he was almost dead before I could even move. Then he missed. It doesn't always the work the way it does on paper.

I do appreciate that your mod increases the xp amount though. Should make things somewhat easier.

[LarkinVB]

Please forget my comments about xp as I now remember we always play with xp * 1.5 settings. So yes, standard xp progression is too slow but we found no need to mod as you can change the setup.

[LarkinVB]

byzsla eredeti hozzászólása:

LarkinVB eredeti hozzászólása:

I can't see the direct download link on the page you provided.

You must have account in forum.

Please make it available here too or send it by email. I'd like to have a look.

[MassiveBallSack]

haha, I agree peasents OP! :D It's funny though.

[Janthis]

Heh, just wait until you reach some fun enemies, like griffins. Then it's:

You: miss
Enemy: critical hit
You: miss
Enemy: critical hit
You: miss
Enemy: critical hit

Game over.