GF Siren has been censored

[Marusame]

Ill concede and say ultimecia is mostly fine and I jumped the gun on this, still Ill leave the comparison below just so people know what the remaster version looks like.

Ultimecia
https://i.imgur.com/Y2nuTq2.jpg Original
https://i.imgur.com/NoxIRJ4.png Original better quality(from the fandom wikia)
https://i.imgur.com/QKQBVfV.jpg Remaster
Siren/Rinoa
https://i.imgur.com/GKfYvgN.png FF8 Original
https://i.imgur.com/4yLjgna.png FF8 Remaster

It seems that Shiva is not censored, though I am still unsure about Ultimecia Final Form because in order to do that in hd they pretty much have to draw out blue shaded bare breasts which I dont think they have the balls to do.

[Just Chill]

I think we all can agree, that the header here is wrong.

"Siren got more clothes to cover her" would be rather correct.


As she never was uncensored, therefore she never can get censored. XD

[Tia1230]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I think we all can agree, that the header here is wrong.

"Siren got more clothes to cover her" would be rather correct.


As she never was uncensored, therefore she never can get censored. XD

To cover the feathers she already had?

[Just Chill]

What's wrong with the word "cover"?

Another user already got very sensitive about. XD

[FiReWaTeR🔥💧]

ya barret was always bleeped

[Tia1230]

Originally posted by nonlosoebasta:

Originally posted by Acadia:

I still don’t get how a design change for a remastered version of a game is censorship. I consider censorship to be Final Fantasy 7 and them bleeping all of Barrett’s text instead of leaving the words he actually said in the PS1 version when they brought it to PC’s and the PS4. But that’s just my opinion.

Wait, what? I do remember they bleeped text in the PS1 version.

If you play the PS1 version and then play the PC port you will notice they bleeped things out he said.

[Mancunian Prophecy]

Originally posted by nonlosoebasta:

Originally posted by Acadia:

If you play the PS1 version and then play the PC port you will notice they bleeped things out he said.

There are bleeped words on PS1.

Guy is right... Some words were censored on the PC version

https://youtu.be/F-piu_4K8kI

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

What's wrong with the word "cover"?

Another user already got very sensitive about. XD

If you're referring to me i didn't get "sensitive" in any way, i simply stated what covered vs uncovered was. If i point out that a peeled tatty is uncovered does that make me sensitive lol? That's like saying someone is being sensitive for saying the sky is blue.

[Chaika Trabant]

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

Okay, I'm going to say this again, and I want you to REALLY try to comprehend it this time.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THERE IS NO CENSORSHIP.

But you basically are and seems very insistent on silencing anyone who can't prove it is because we both know it is not the kind of thing one can prove.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

My argument/point was never that there is no censorship. My argument is that it doesn't "appear" to be censorship based on the evidence that I supplied. That means that my argument IS an assumption, but it is an educated assumption based on facts (which I provided).

Questionnable facts.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

My issue with you is that your argument is that this is censorship. Not that it "appears" to be censorship, but that it is actual censorship. You can't make that claim without providing evidence (which you have not done, and will not be able to do since there is no evidence to prove that claim). Even if you had changed your argument to say "it appears that it's censorship", your only "evidence" is that the design changed. I stated multiple reasons outside of the design change why it doesn't appear to be censorship. You've only said "the design changed", so at this point you've provided no evidence to support that it is censorship, or even that it appears to be censorship.

I cannot prove it, true but you're in the same situation and it doesn't mean our claim necessarily false.
People 2000 years ago couldn't even imagine et alone prove that a concept like gravity existed, it doesn't mean it didn't exist at all.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

I'm sure some people will disagree. While you CAN disagree with facts, that doesn't somehow change the facts. People that disagree with facts are lacking in intelligence. Facts are objective, not subjective. My argument was objective. Your argument is subjective, but it's the worst kind of subjective because you're arguing against something that's objective. That's lunacy.

Here another fact: she's more covered than before.
Feel free to quote me the artist, you cannot prove he wasn't told to say that.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

I have provided more evidence that it is not censorship than you have provided for it being censorship. That is objectively true. If we were in a judged debate you would be losing (badly, I might add).

But you just literally admitted that your arguments are also based on assumptions.
As for winning or losing, I do not think that's relevant, considering both of our claim rely on nothing. You just chose to not question your facts and arguments.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

How is my argument flawed? I would have been more understanding of the point you had made with censorship if someone other than the original designer was the one who modified the design. That seems less likely when the original designer is the one who modified the design. That was my entire point, so nothing I've said here creates a flaw in my argument.

Not really, the original artist are often asked to censor their own work because it is cheaper and faster than asking someone else.
If you follow the mobage industry (I'm sure you don't) there's several examples of artists doing it only because they were told to, especially in S.Korea.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

This has nothing to do with convenience. It's the rules that we as a society follow when it comes to accusations. You're the one making the accusations. I'm providing a defense against those accusations, and you haven't had a valid counter towards any of my points. In a court of law (pretty much any court of law) your accusation would be rejected as you didn't have any evidence whatsoever to support the accusation.

But your defense rely as heavily on assumptions as mine.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

Let's use an analogy. John Smith has been missing for 5 years. I claim that you murdered him and disposed of the body. Using your logic you would have to prove that you didn't murder John Smith. How could you possibly do that? That would be nearly impossible without a body. If we use my logic (again, the logic our society as a whole follows) I would have to prove that you committed the murder. It wouldn't be your job to prove that you didn't commit murder.

This "debate" is the same thing. You've thrown an accusation of "censorship". I don't have to prove that it isn't censorship. I just have to show that I have more evidence than you do that it doesn't appear to be censorship. It's impossible to prove that it's not censorship. It's not impossible to defend against the accusation of censorship (which is what I've been doing).

The analogy only works if I somehow had not only one but several antecedents and was working for someone who also had an history of murder.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

What do you mean okay? You're the one that quoted what I said and tried to defend against it. I countered. Saying "okay?" provides nothing more to the discussion. It was a waste of space in both quoting what I said as well as replying to it.

It means that I took note of that part of your post since you previously complained about how I could have removed some part of your post to imply things you wouldn't have.
Something you actually did against me ironically.

Originally posted by Chaika Trabant:

Because you've conveniently cut off the sentence to make it look like so and tried to make little effort to understand me. I was clearly talking about the game, its technical issues and the censorship in that part.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

I did no such thing. I posted this:

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

People called me the same thing, and it was after I said I hate SquareEnix and that this was a lazy, garbage job of a remaster. It's not a miscommunication issue, and it's not that we're SJWs. It's that people on this forum attack people who disagree with them. I said "no censorship" and suddenly I'm a "devs white knight", an "SJW", and other more colorful terms. A difference of opinion doesn't make name-calling appropriate, especially when there's more evidence for our opinion that it's not censorship than for the people saying it is censorship. And your post is ridiculous. You're blaming the victim without doing any research.

You replied with this:

Originally posted by Chaika Trabant:

No? the victims here are the (potential) customers, not the poor dev who can't do anything wrong but did anyway, at least on a technical level by your own admission.

That is the full context with nothing cut off. You obviously didn't comprehend my previous post that you quoted since it was regarding people being name-called being the victims, and you responded that the victims "are the (potential) customers" which has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

You mentionned that the game had some technical issues, here I used the term again hoping that you would understand what I was talking about.
Turns out I was wrong.
But eh, I'm at least willing to admit whenever I'm wrong.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

I am a person. I am not multiple people. I am specifically speaking to you, so don't reference me as "you people" as if I'm somehow involved in the issues you're having with others.

No but you all share the same behavior of dodging questions for some reasons.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

If I'm somehow involved, please share with me the questions that I have avoided. I believe I've answered to every question you've asked me.

Remember in this very thread when you suddenly called me a troll out of nowhere and bailed out, allowing you to not answer any of my questions?
Why not start there?

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

Again, you're not comprehending something because I never said you were mentally inferior to me and that you're a troll. So no, it wasn't childish behavior from my part because I haven't resorted to name-calling. Find the post where I called you mentially inferior and post it for us. I'll wait.

Lack of inteligence:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1026680/discussions/0/1635291505026157684/?ctp=24#c1635291505038461558

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

Be aware, if you try to break my below post apart into a few sentences at a time you're going to break the context of this post (like you did last time). Please don't do that. It will not prove me wrong, and it will only show a lack of intelligence on your part

Considering I was the only poster at that point who did that from the start and well before you talked to me, I find it hard to believe that you were not implying otherwise.
Trolling:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1026680/discussions/0/1635291505026157684/?ctp=25#c1635291505040426431

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

Troll-baggery has been confirmed. Don't bother trying to have a civil conversation with this guy, people. He won't be able to debate or respond properly. It's a waste of time.

But sure, you never called, let alone implied, that I could be retarded or a troll.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

I vaguely recall circular arguments which is behavior that a troll would engage in. I'm not saying you're a troll, but if you were using circular arguments it wouldn't surprise me if I said you're probably a troll. I can virtually guarantee you I wouldn't have said it out of nowhere, and I would have had a previous post that said something to the effect of, "I'm going to test you to see if you're a troll." If that was you I was talking to, I honestly don't remember it. I've had a lot going on the last few weeks and you can't expect me to remember every ridiculous discussion I've engaged in on the Steam forums.

But you literally claimed above that you could never have done something like that.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

With that logic we shouldn't trust anything ever, and we should treat every person and corporation as if they're lying about everything. What a ridiculous notion. Also, that interview was from about a decade ago, well before this remaster was even on the horizon. I'm not sure what "damage control" you thought they were doing when nobody was concerned about this then.

Yes? Because in the end, he's working for a company whose end goal is to sell.
There's a similar mindset in politics which is why people are so jaded there.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

And again, I don't need to provide it. But I have provided more evidence that it doesn't appear to be censorship than you have provided for the claim that it is censorship.

But when you say 'It's an artistic change", it stop being a counter-argument and becomes an argument that need to be backed with solid evidence.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

If you feel that I'm saying my opinion is tantamount to fact then you're not comprehending my posts. I've clearly laid out my opinions and stated that they are opinions. Also, I've clearly provided the facts that led to my opinion. This way you can see the logic I used to get to my opinion. The problem that I'm having with you is that you are laying out your opinion as if it were fact (not opinion), and you don't have any evidence that you've presented that led you to the conclusion. So you're spouting "this is censorship!" with nothing to back it up.

And am I not allowed to do that? Or would you like to censor me? Also you misunderstand me, i'm saying that your opinion has no more value than mine.

Originally posted by Chaos Residue:

See above. You're stuck on a circular arguement, and your argument is flawed. The accuser has the burden of proof. You're the accuser. It's not convenient - it's how our entire society functions. There's more evidence that it's not censorship than that it's censorship. Unless you're hiding evidence somewhere. I'll happily move to your side of the fence if you can prove to me that the grass is greener there.

But so are you.

Originally posted by Chaika Trabant:

What proof do you need? A written letter from S-E saying that they indeed censored the game? This never happened and never will because it's bad PR.

Then you can't prove it. At that point your arguement has to change from "it's censorship!" to "it appears to be censorship." And even if you're going to say "it appears to be censorship" you need to provide some sort of evidence other than "the design changed" as proof that it LOOKS like censorship. That's what I did when I said it appears that it isn't censorship. I found things that didn't add up, and I presented that to everyone. You've found nothing except that the design changed, and again... that isn't inherently censorship. If you have futher evidence to support your claim, by all means provide it. [/quote]
Feel free to point me out to an historical instance where the people responsible for censorship openly admitted on their own (as opposed to being forced to) that they were indeed censoring.
With that kind of logic, there would be never be any censorship since people in charge will never admit it.

Originally posted by Mancunian Prophecy:

Seriously grasping now.... Why would he lie 20 years ago about his design process, did he foresee the future of 2019?

I don't know, there's too many reasons to not lie in an interview.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

@Chaika
Stop putting words into my mouth I never said they look unrealistic.
You just implied that I meant that.

But you did say it would be at least difficult to fight with large breasts hence why you liked the changed design better.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Originally posted by Chaika Trabant:

I never played any Tomb Raider so I didn't know but if it was a game that I was concerned about, I would.

Which perfectly raises the conclusion that you've a boob fetish.

I do not see how me not playing Tomb Raider means that I have a boob fetish.
But please enlighten me.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

You should like women not just because they have boobs.
Neither in games nor in real-life.

Your concern against someone who doesn't like having big weird looking boobs on modern video games at least makes you looking like someone who is weirdly interested into boobs.

Actually, you seems to misunderstand me, I was talking about realism with you, YOU were the one who shifted the argument toward women, boobs and implant for some reason.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I can think about a few people with the same habits.
A cave man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf

Or this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbr-F7WsChI

Feel free to relate to these. ^^

I don't judge your for linking boobs, as I guess everyone likes them.
When being a baby it might be the first thing we have in mind when being hungry.

And surley they also play a sexual role, especially if you like BFRs.

But you shouldn't hang yourself up on that topic like this. That appears a bit weird. XD

So you're saying that the vast majority of men are either cavemen or weird american?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I think we all can agree, that the header here is wrong.

"Siren got more clothes to cover her" would be rather correct.
As she never was uncensored, therefore she never can get censored. XD

Stalin was always alone: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Soviet_censorship_with_Stalin2.jpg

[Mancunian Prophecy]

Originally posted by nonlosoebasta:

Originally posted by Mancunian Prophecy:

Guy is right... Some words were censored on the PC version

https://youtu.be/F-piu_4K8kI

And i insist that the PS1 version was censored, too.

Hell, read the comments in that video, they say the same.

Yeah I remember Barret being censored but I'm not sure if that was for comedic effect or if he was using the C word or F word, but I'm 99% sure it is implied that he says bastards early on which gets censored, but it's censored in the Japanese version as well which makes me think it was more for comedic effect...
It's like the devour ability in FF8 and how it goes to a censored screen, think it was more to do with an in game joke more than actual censorship...

But actual swears like what Cid says in FF7 were censored in the PC version, and IIRC I think one word wasn't censored from Barret (possibly the S word) in the PS1 version as well...

I only remember Barrets early dialogue being censored, later in the game he says a few words that aren't censored in the PS1 version.

[Just Chill]

@Chaika Trabant

Don't be so defensive now. ^^
You're the one who jumped onto my Tifa comment and felt necessary to enlarge this off-topic ♥♥♥♥ and wanted to continue talking about boobs.
Don't speak of the vast majority of men, when you mean yourself Stalin.
There are some men who see something different in women than boobs.

And before you get even more defensive I recommend to set your profile to private. I mean, you don't own Hunie Pop, but still... XD

Correction: You own Hunie Pop, just haven't any playtime recorded to it.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1026680/discussions/0/2564160288788802791/#c2564160288788861061
I literally thought I have to defend our gender from such a spiteful comment, but right now I am really unsure about the level of your sexual frustration and confusion. XD

If you really enjoy such stuff, then I recommend you don't openly defend it. Samuel L. Jackson can like Hentai as he is Samuel L. Jackson, ya know?


You still haven't said anything about this topic though, except that you agree with me.
I wonder if you actually have either some weird arguments in that case.

But what is your problem with what I wrote about the censorship?


It's a logical conclusion that you CANNOT censor what already is censored, as that has no purpose.
You censor something which is uncensored.
That's perfectly NOT the case here.

As you don't own the game have you at least played any FF8?
I recommend to check out the videos of the original Siren I posted.

Do you see a vagina there or is it censored?

[Chaika Trabant]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

@Chaika Trabant
Don't be so defensive now. ^^
You're the one who jumped onto my Tifa comment and felt necessary to enlarge this off-topic ♥♥♥♥ and wanted to continue talking about boobs.

I answered to that comment because you brought realism into it, I have no issue with you liking this design more.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Don't speak of the vast majority of men,

But that's what YOU did.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

when you mean yourself Stalin.

What?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

There are some men who see something different in women than boobs.

Okay?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

And before you get even more defensive I recommend to set your profile to private. I mean, you don't own Hunie Pop, but still... XD

Correction: You own Hunie Pop, just haven't any playtime recorded to it.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1026680/discussions/0/2564160288788802791/#c2564160288788861061

How is Hunie Pop related to our argument?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I literally thought I have to defend our gender from such a spiteful comment, but right now I am really unsure about the level of your sexual frustration and confusion. XD

Please point me out what was my "spiteful comment".

Originally posted by Just Chill:

If you really enjoy such stuff, then I recommend you don't openly defend it. Samuel L. Jackson can like Hentai as he is Samuel L. Jackson, ya know?

I don't care about people using ad hominem if that's what you mean, which is by the way something you're currently trying to do.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

You still haven't said anything about this topic though, except that you agree with me.
I wonder if you actually have either some weird arguments in that case.

By this topic, I take that you're speaking about Siren's censorship?
Feel free to go read the previous pagesof this thread, my posts are difficult to miss and I'm some of the most active poster in this thread.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

But what is your problem with what I wrote about the censorship?
It's a logical conclusion that you CANNOT censor what already is censored, as that has no purpose.
You censor something which is uncensored.
That's perfectly NOT the case here.

Did you even try clicking the link I provided? You CAN censor even further something that is already censored.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

As you don't own the game have you at least played any FF8?

Yes, on PS1, PSP and Vita.
Too bad, I doubt I'll ever own another Sony console unless they change their minds.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I recommend to check out the videos of the original Siren I posted.
Do you see a vagina there or is it censored?

There is no point at all since I already said that I agreed with you for Siren.

[Just Chill]

Have you even read what I wrote?
Censoring something further doesn't make sense in a logical way.
As there is only censored and uncensored. Not more censored and even more censored and even more censored...

Siren was censored and still is censored.


If you want to be unlogical then fine.



I nowhere said anything like the "majority of men". I like boobs too, but I don't degrade women to these organs.
But the way you cling to the argument about Tifa... Well it made me curious so I checked the games you play. Sorry.


The spiteful comment was not yours it was the comment I linked and where I thought I have to defend our gender.

And I don't use ad hominem, I simply state why you disgust me as man, why I won't converse further with you and why I start to feel unsure if the defense of our gender was really justified. XD
Well... there are always people with some weird habits.

At least you are no pedophile. :)

[Chaika Trabant]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Have you even read what I wrote?

Did you?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Censoring something further doesn't make sense in a logical way.

But it does, I even gave you an historical example of that happening.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

As there is only censored and uncensored. Not more censored and even more censored and even more censored...

And yet...

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Siren was censored and still is censored.

I can agree with that.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

If you want to be unlogical then fine.

But you're the one who has trouble answering my questions.
So... Why Hunie Pop?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I nowhere said anything like the "majority of men". I like boobs too,

Right here

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Your concern against someone who doesn't like having big weird looking boobs on modern video games at least makes you looking like someone who is weirdly interested into boobs.

I can think about a few people with the same habits.
A cave man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf

Or this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbr-F7WsChI

Feel free to relate to these. ^^

I don't judge your for linking boobs, as I guess everyone likes them.
When being a baby it might be the first thing we have in mind when being hungry.

I may be mistaken by assuming most men like big breasts but you're literally labelling anyone who may like big breast as either a caveman or a weird american.
It's literally something I already said but you wouldn't know since you clearly don't read my posts.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

but I don't degrade women to these organs.

But I didn't, I mostly focused on realism while you went further into the boobs territory.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

The spiteful comment was not yours it was the comment I linked and where I thought I have to defend our gender.

Okay? So what was the point of linking someone who basically said that he was blocking anyone who may disagree with him/her?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

And I don't use ad hominem,

Sure you don't, why would you look at my profile looking for game that I may or may not play in an attempt to shame me?

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I simply state why you disgust me as man

So I disgust you because:
-I'm illogical, when you are the one who is.
-I may or may not like boobs, which is not even something I mentioned or focused on, unlike you.

Originally posted by Just Chill:

and why I won't converse further with you.

Okay? Internet sure is a convenient place.

[zorrodood]

Originally posted by Monterossa:

Originally posted by ☢︎BrutalImpact☢:

It's 2019, they have an ethics department now. Women hate seeing guys looking at half-naked female figures and enjoying it and some will make negative press for square-enix.

Those days are over, get over it.

I'm not gonna give up.

My human rights are more important than their feelings.

They don't like something? fine. But they don't have the right to stop me from enjoying something that doesn't affect them. I'm not gonna let them cross my line and simply say that they do it because they can.

Why do you want to see that bush so much?

[Just Chill]

@Chaika Trabant
I don't block people because we have a disagreement. XD
I am not sure about which previous post you are talking. About humankind getting more and more prudish?
Sure, because we are not allowed to have nipples or even short slips in games rated for 16.
That's ridiculously overprotective.

However, demanding BIG boobs... For what purpose? As if women are just boobs and nothing more, or what?
No, I pass on that one and I am unsure how people can even take video game characters with such oversized traits serious.
I am actually glad that I haven't played the original FF7. Not that I was a bit annoyed by these cutified small character world models, I probably wouldn't have liked the FMVs either.
Because Tifa didn't look like a character that fit into such a sentient story.

Lara Croft on the other side was an action star and in german she was voiced by the voice actor of Pamela Anderson.
So that was a funny ride to play, yet nothing which would go near your heart like the story of FF7 in all it's success and tragedy, where I actually would have prefer more mature characters like in FF8.

I just don't feel continue talking with you. Please respect that too. Thank you.