Heroes are severely not balanced

[76561197976445719]

Susie:
- A tank (tons of HP, probably takes reduced damage as well?)
- AMAZING CC with the electric fences
- Group 100% heal that is always ready and filled, basically spammable every few seconds (based on damage done)
- Good weapon damage (minigun)
- Regenerates partially depleted health bars
- DMG + CC + HP sustain + tank, one man army

Basically with no experience and no upgrades I finished Nightmare missions without too much trouble in solo, taking home 3000+ exp each time.


The others?
The others are jokes.

Take Ortega FX, nice damage, but
- the mobility skill is terrible, it doesn't play well with terrain. too long cool-down and too short distance to realistically be a kiting tool. Even with all the dodging of the world you are going to get repeatedly hit by the swarm of enemies
- The "rage" mode, is nice, can be devastating... as long as everything else around you doesn't tear you apart first, which is what actually usually happens.
- The question is not if "I'm going to die" but "how long before I'm dead", as it's impossible to completely avoid being hit and you are slowly (or quickly) being tore down to shreds, after the 3 medkits, either run back to the base (BORING) or die (BORING + FRUSTRATING).

Susie is a bit OP, but the others are way too under-powered. Basically they lack sustainability.

Proposals:
- Ortega's jump instead of dashing in front of you (which always end up with you hitting a rock and traveling just a couple of meters) should jump on a 30-45 degree arc (making terrain collisions less likely) and the jump should be at least twice as long to be a viable survivability option. Maybe also recover 20% hp for each jump.
The enrage mode, on top of the extra damage should also offer life-steal, thus finally allowing you to actually tear down enemies without being the one getting killed first, it would also become a sustainability option.

The sniper guy was ok, with his spammable stealth is viable, I just don't really like it.

The scout.... just like it doesn't exists, for all I care, his abilities are frankly useless.

Mark? Funny on Normal, terrible and why would I even consider using it at higher difficulties? It's literally based on diving in groups of enemies and taking damage to use counter attacks, nice way to die quicker.

[ATOMIC]

I disagree with the Ortega assessment. I solo with her all the time. I have yet to master insane difficulty with her for all missions though. Expedition is mastered. The combat high could theoretically last forever as long as you have a constant flow of dinos coming at you.

Since she can carry two primary weapons, your survival depends a lot on your weapon perk selections and how you use them along with her abilities. Likewise, your choice of equipment can also be a huge impact. Because of her combat high, stun grenades can be made into an actually good grenade, and the thumper becomes a magnet to make sustaining your combat high even easier. Also since she can carry two primaries, and since there is scattered and infinite ammo all over the map, it is wasteful to carry any kind of ammo drops.

btw... it's Rosy, not Susie.

[76561197976445719]

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

I disagree with the Ortega assessment. I solo with her all the time. I have yet to master insane difficulty with her for all missions though. Expedition is mastered. The combat high could theoretically last forever as long as you have a constant flow of dinos coming at you.

Since she can carry two primary weapons, your survival depends a lot on your weapon perk selections and how you use them along with her abilities. Likewise, your choice of equipment can also be a huge impact. Because of her combat high, stun grenades can be made into an actually good grenade, and the thumper becomes a magnet to make sustaining your combat high even easier. Also since she can carry two primaries, and since there is scattered and infinite ammo all over the map, it is wasteful to carry any kind of ammo drops.

btw... it's Rosy, not Susie.

I keep balance in consideration only for Nightmare difficulty. At lower difficulties it doesn't really make a bit difference between any of the classes.

I already know about those practices to play Ortega, but that's besides the point, the title of the topic is the disparity of strength between the classes.

Try solo Nightmare Blacksite and let me know how playable Ortega really is. With Susie/Rosy/Clarence/Enrika/whatever I did it first try no problem, I also cleaned 5/8 pillars of servers. With Ortega you just can't keep it up. Also other missions are extremely difficult (near impossible).

[ATOMIC]

Well then just say Rosy is overpowered. You should not be able to complete any mission on insane solo with any character on your first attempt. A few people have recorded that mission solo on insane using Jürgen, so Rosy isn't the only option. Someone else used Ortega but only got 4 pillars. There are 6 pillars, so maybe you got 4/6?

I haven't yet, but I have no doubts that I can solo Black Site on insane with Ortega. I'm not going to right now because the area has an overmutation event... that'll be too much to take on without practicing insane under normal conditions... one thing at a time.

What I am getting at is I don't want to see Ortega getting buffed to make it as easy as using Rosy is. I like the difficulty where it is with her. I have a feeling that those who have become accustomed to Jürgen feel the same. Amir might need some buffing up to be playable solo on insane, but the devs never claimed that playing every character solo on insane can or should be done. In fact, they have made it clear that nothing is balanced for solo play and they recommend not playing solo. Amir is best in a team and there might be future heroes who are designed strictly for team play. I'm fine with that and there's nothing wrong with that.

Solo on anything but Rosy is a struggle to master and it's beautiful. It is the kind of difficult that I've been looking for. If they bring the others up to Rosy's level, it's pretty much game over for myself and a lot of people.

[Ghost]

agree completely for the new hero....i expected when he used that skill to take REDUCED damage...instead he just straight up dies on any difficulty beyond normal. is this intended or a bug? surely the Devs realise he is no where close to Rosy. Buff all other charachters to Rosy level for the love of god.

[76561197976445719]

Originally posted by GHOST:

agree completely for the new hero....i expected when he used that skill to take REDUCED damage...instead he just straight up dies on any difficulty beyond normal. is this intended or a bug? surely the Devs realise he is no where close to Rosy. Buff all other charachters to Rosy level for the love of god.

Or nerf Rosy.
While the others are still useful in a 3-man party, I should not feel compelled to play Rosy for solo. While you can do Nightmare also with the others, the time, effort and risk is just not comparable.

[76561197976445719]

Besides, Amir brings some serious values with his Granade Launcher and Volley to take on swarms, something that Rosy absolutely can't do!



ROCKET LAUNCHER!!!!

... .... ... ... ...


Which does:
- More damage and more DPS. Just try to destroy a burrow with Amir, it takes FOREVER. With the rocket launcher they still go down pretty quickly.
- More area
- Doesn't require a weapon talent to explode when hitting enemies, it explodes also agianst terrain, while grenades instead often bounce 3 meter in the air doing nearly no damage
- flies in a straight pattern, easily sniping far away targets (burrows, watchers, big things or groups), extremely harder to do with grenade launcher.
- The triple shots talent consumes 1/9 ammo, while with the Grenade Launcher you still use 3/6.

So even Amir's perk weapon is inferior to Rosy's alternate one. That just kills variety in the game.

Other Heroes lack sustain.
Rosy should not be able to heal the entire team, making her a mandatory choice as she is the only healer.
If sustain would be too strong on a 3 players team, add a 4th talent/passive that is only active when playing solo and that gives also other Heroes some basic sustain to stay in the fight.

[76561197976445719]

Amir's and Rosy's ability should be swapped.

Rosy is already too strong to also have a reliable crowd control (electric fence).
Amir's skill, the laser, does very little damage on a very little area, it's sooooohooooo badly underwhelming, and what do you get? Another AoE damage when you already spam volleys of grenades? It's a +0 addition.

Amir lacks completely in survival skills (the always aware from threats perk? What does that even do?!), he would greatly benefit from the electric fence to group enemies together to focus fire his grenades and as a survival tool.

Basically swap laser and electric Fence.

[Geronimo Röder]

Yeah Amir is pretty useless. The LAser does not enough dmg and his hp bar is too low. on high difficulty you die so damn mutch is so sad. Sry for my bad english

[Dustbuhny]

+1 Heros are very unbalanced and most of their nerfed weapons are useless. Previous posters in this thread clearly outline the details so I won't fill up space by repeating or quoting their remarks.

[Booneblaster]

weapon perks really come into play. i think this is where most balancing takes place. flatbacks are one of the biggest challenges when you don't have explosives. granades are tricky. you need a rocket launcher or granade launcher but these can be rather weak weapons overall due to long reload times and half your ammo exploding in the distance. even on max power, it still takes 3 rockets to down a single raptor (insane mode) unless you get a direct hit. i like using the RL and use it a lot for the fun, but i can do a lot more crowd control and damage with other weapons. I'll often take Rosy and a RL because no one else wants to be rosy or have a flatback-knocking weapon.
I think stims should stack back up to 4 or 5 and take less time to use. this would make other heros more viable solo or without rosy heals.
Jurgens abilities are extremely useful. Ortega.... she does a huge amount of damage plus 2 primary. This is why 90% of players use her and run off alone to be rambo and usually quit because you don't run around the map following them. they die, too. Amir's spotting ability is super nice to have. Jack..... is fun. takes practice to learn how and where to use his unique abilities. at first i was like, whyyy? but actually, he's pretty amazing. just wish he wouldn't stop his charge on a raptor sometimes. he draws agro to himself passively, yet doesnt take reduced damage like rosy. but has more HP than other classes. Overall i like all of them, but rarely use ortega and amir.
i think the usefulness of each character will really become apparent when horde mode hits in the next big update. until then, upgrade your weapons to make them come alive. except don't use fire damage perks as this seriously lags the game for everyone.