Suggestion: sensor arrays and transponder antennae

[Tantalus]

So, we have a lot of parts for ship systems, but something we're still missing are sensor arrays. How do ships/stations/planets show up on our nav consoles with nothing on the exterior of the ship to do the detecting? On top of that, transponder antennae are unnecessarily huge - particularly if all they're doing is transmitting our codes out into space.

So, I suggest changing transponder antennae to sensor arrays. You could conceivably keep the artwork the same, and just add the sensor array functionality to existing antennae. Then, tie it into our nav consoles so that each ship requires two working arrays for the nav console screen to work properly - one on the port side of the ship, and the other on the starboard side. The reason for two is that many ships already have two antennae on opposing sides anyway, and because with two of them, they can work together to more accurately determine distances - the same way our ears do. If a ship loses one array, then maybe our main screen has ships start jumping around a bit (with more distant ships jumping more) because with only one array, it can't pinpoint locations as accurately as before. With both arrays down, the screen is just blank with an error message.

[pgames-food]

i was actually thinking about scanners the other day - but in the sense of a new Scanner item, that we can install on the ship, a bit like a police radio scanner, so that we can detect whenever a Patrol Ship not only "starts scanning" but to know when they have "stopped scanning" :)

that way, players can know when it is a bit safer to start stealing items from other space ships (at least in the early game when buying the salvaging license is a bit expensive)

for example, a Scanner could cost 3k, but would pay for itself after 2 days.
but 1 downside to it, could be that it is always switching itself on and off (in terms of story line, to avoid detection, masking active and passive scanning with engine noise or something), and therefore always uses power, as well as losing 1% durability per in game hour which requires 1 scrap mechanical part each day to fix.

it could also link into a pda, to notify you while you are on a derelict, giving you 30 seconds to get back to your ship or not be "uninstalling" anything at the time

[Tantalus]

That's not a bad idea, either - maybe something like a black market radar detector?

I always thought it was a little weird that we could detect when our ship was being scanned as a standard feature. Seems to me that NASS wouldn't want civilians to have that ability.

[Tumskunde]

A far as seeing them scan us, it's much like ships and active/passive sonar.
Our Navconsoles seem to run on a passive system, linked to the network we see where we are, and where every other active ship is. We can also pick up the forms of nearby ships/asteroids/planets as they give off other energy patterns the Nav console uses to to triangulate them, but they have to be close for us to see.

NASS's Scanners look to be an Active system, as it would be setup to detect ships not running a transponder (running dark), this would require them to emit one or more energy pulses of some kind, which our Navconsoles would see. Pirates could do the same, so there's probably an IFF signal sent at the same time to identify who sent the pulse(s).


So I do have a bit to share.
I've run out of power while salvaging a hull, so I had my transponder/antenna/navconsole off line while I was docked with a ship.
I decided to finish salvaging the ship first and ~6 hours later in game, enough for at least 4-5 patrols, I brought my backups back online, and went back to OKLG.
It was when I was trying to sell my salvage was when I found out I forgot to renew my license.
I try to sell mine back before they expire (Ours have a value of ~$2000 before it runs out) and buy a new one before, so I sold it and forgot to buy a new one before I left.
So either I was lucky, they have trouble seeing us if we are running dark or maybe I was just out of range, I was on the far side of Ganymede from OKLG.

[Tantalus]

Publicado originalmente por Tumskunde:

So either I was lucky, they have trouble seeing us if we are running dark or maybe I was just out of range, I was on the far side of Ganymede from OKLG.

This I know quite well. Before the Peaquod, I had purchased another derelict and was taking it back to KLEG to repair as I typically do. This ship had a working transponder but it was completely missing its antenna, so it was dark. As I got close to KLEG to dock, an NPC ship came from around the opposite side of Ganymed and started careening towards me. At first I figured they'd change course, so I just kept going. It dawned on me too late that the NPC ship couldn't see me because of the antenna, and boom. The collision caused multiple hull breaches in the ship, punctured my EVA suit AND helmet, and left some shrapnel in my character's torso. I'm not sure if the collision hit me so hard that I bounced off of Ganymed or if the NPC ship collided with me a second time, but the second one pretty much totaled the ship. I managed to dock as my character was slowly asphyxiating AND bleeding out, got him onto the station and ripped off his broken EVA suit before he passed out in the station's airlock. He kept passing out from blood loss on the way to the health station before I finally got him patched up. The ship itself was a total loss, though. It was now so trashed it was no longer worth fixing up to sell.

So yeah, they really can't see you if you're flying dark.

[Tumskunde]

The fact that you lived through that deserves a standing ovation.
I usually get merc'd if something hits me at significant speed.
Like straight to the game over screen.

[Tantalus]

I guess I've just been lucky. 100+ hours of playing over multiple game versions and that was the first collision that actually injured my character and damaged the EVA suit I was wearing. Most collisions I've been in have just poked a few holes in my hull and maybe damaged a component or two. They've been a little tense due to the threat of depressurization, but nothing a few hull patches couldn't handle.

[Tumskunde]

My first was in 0.11, but I've had them since, they're only really a threat early on.
Though High speed ones can still one shot you, speed does play into it as you seem to get hit multiple times, whether from recoiling into a wreck or getting caught on the other ship and dragged. That tends to stack up the hits, mass probably come into play here too.
Even if I didn't die right away, I was usually too far away from OKLG to make it back before I suffocated, my Nav console, battery or other things integral to flight would get mulched into trash or some other nonsense.

The one time I did make it back, I was at the med station when I found out I didn't have enough cash for treatment, so I go back to the sales kiosk and empty my ship, thank you barter zones, to get enough money and then pass out and die while trying to access the Med Station again.

I don't worry too much about them now, the experiences have taught me to be sealed in my suit unless eating/drinking/resting and build/acquire redundancies in my ship systems and salvage kit.

[pgames-food]

nice stories for sure :)
i wonder what is the best way to have redundancy? for example, having a couple of spare air pumps, canisters, ready-to-use eva suits, and tools is a bit easier (and cheaper to do) + some spare engines/intakes dotted around the ship, but what about the large, expensive items, like a reactor-sized items, and the nav console?

for example, maybe with time and in the later game, i could carry a spare nav console, and stock up on lots of spare parts to fix things, but as far as i know, you can only build extra layers of "wall", not flooring, so if your outer wall gets destroyed, you still have inner ones, or with extra doors to protect things, but if there is only 1 layer of floor, that is the weakest link :)

edit: what happens when a storage container gets destroyed - do the contents spill out, and maybe get a bit of damage/condition loss, or do they all get destroyed too?

[Tumskunde]

The parts are easy enough, you find them laying around everywhere and certain items will always get you some if you dismantle them. Looking at you PDA, lovely place to get electronics in a pinch. There's 2 spots on OKLG that have a tonne starting out.
That said you can buy them for one of the kiosks as well.

I currently have a few totes sitting around my ship with the necessary parts to fix the items in the area where they are, usually tucked into a bin. I also have coveralls/cargo pants in there to hold the parts that don't stack, lets you fit more in without needing 2 bags.
By the time I'm done 2-3 wrecks I usually have enough to last me for a good while and refurbish what I find. The trick on wrecks is that you usually get most of the parts you need from the area around where they are installed. Sometimes that means going EVA to get a Motor the RCS ejected outside.

[Tantalus]

Most of my redundancy for ship systems centers around making sure there are multiple paths for power to get to said system: 99.9% of the time when a system goes out, it's because power to said system got knocked out, not because the system itself was damaged. As for the rare cases where the system itself gets damaged, I carry spare parts, not replacement systems, due to the space constraint.

Special note for reactors: reactors are extremely expensive to run (I did the math once, and you can recharge your batteries over a thousand times at KLEG before it costs the same as one He3 + D2O refill), so my reactor IS the backup for my batteries. It's only ever on as long as it takes to recharge my batteries, and that's only if I am too far to make it to KLEG before my batteries die.

If it's THAT expensive, why have it at all? Why not some backup batteries on a separate circuit with a switch? For now, backup batteries are definitely the better option. However, eventually, we're going to have long-range travel in this game, and at that point, batteries will no longer be sufficient - you will need a reactor because batteries don't last days (whereas a reactor can last that long if you only use it to recharge your batteries as needed, then flip it back off again). So, I figure I might as well get used to having one aboard now.

As for hull breaches, I carry a bunch of hull patches and some of the sealers (they make temporary wall sections). Doubling up on the hull is just going to cause problems, plus it will leave weak spots wherever you have thrusters, coolers, or doors. Lastly, by doubling up on the hull, you could make some 'impossible to reach' spots depending on where you install stuff inside your ship, which could be a problem both for maintenance and in the event of an emergency. Say for example that a conduit behind your nav console gets damaged. Now your nav console (and possibly other stuff) is unpowered. You can't reach the damaged conduit from inside because your nav console is in the way, and you can't reach it from outside the ship because the wall is two tiles thick. You'll have to uninstall your nav console to get to the conduit.

[pgames-food]

ah thats a good point about the issues of doubling the hull

if i get a chance, i might try adding 1 or 2 tiles worth of perimeter of cargo flooring around most of my outer wall, followed by 1 tile outer perimeter (with a doorway or 2 for pathing)
e.g.

O = outer Wall, I = inner wall, # = cargo floors

00000-DOOR-00000
0#############0
0IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII0
0I.....................................I0
0I.....................................I0
0I.....................................I0
0IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII0
0#############0
00000-DOOR-00000

plus the sides :)

[pgames-food]

(thanks i'll make sure to do an EVA inspection of the outside of each derelict to see what goodies can be found)

i didnt know that about the maths behind the cost, it always seemed to be cheaper using the reactor materials to recharge all the batteries on the ship than to refill at the station, but i did notice that the most costly thing seemed to be gasses, not power in my new game.

[Tumskunde]

Redundancy is usually just having a spare of what you use, whether it's hidden away in bins or installed ready for use.

The 1000 character limit stops me from just laying it all out, it boils down to, get thing, then spare.
There's a number of spots you can get free gear, check out my guide on Crime, it has all the Salvage spots on station to get your kit going.
EVA Suit before I leave OKLG, whether I find or kill for one it's non-negotiable, kinda nice was to deal with Enemies, don't touch LEOs though.
Once I have a suit, I'll unhook my life support and sell it, the O2 bottle stays as it's backup re-mass.
Always have 2-3 batteries for it and an O2 bottle or two, buy new ones to replace it, they are cheap enough, maybe a CO2 filter? I'm still on my first one about 5 days in and it's still sitting well over 90%.
You can charge your suit batteries on OKLG. Carry spares for you tools, I don't leave OKLG without upgrading to at least a Drill/Grinder/Crowbar/Soldering Iron/Welder, if I find a Weber all you need is a Drill/Crowbar and can substitute a Machete for the Crowbar.
Then it's going out and getting the best bits. to bring back.

[pgames-food]

ah cool thanks for info
(my C02 filter is still at 100% but the save is only 17 hours worth and i think i only found it about 10 hours ago, so it could just be needing more time before it drops, but i did start to wander if c02 build-up was still taking place as it had not even dropped by 1% etc)

i was lucky so far to find about 3 bingham batteries for the eva, and a few damaged blue pressure suits that i was able to repair. (i didnt have space for the heater when i ran out of power at a derelict lol, and needed to uninstall it to install a battery in it's place :)

have you been able to pick up coffee machines? i found one but can only access its contents so far. also how to put nav console on the cargo trolley?

[pgames-food]

also how to put crates on the trolley?