[Complaint/Suggestion] I hate the character designer.

[Mechanos]

Heya. Returning player. Haven't played in like a year and decided I wanted to see how the game's progressing.

Gotta say, I'm rather put off. The dating app part is mostly fine. My problem is the proceeding "history" kiosk. Starting with an 18 year old fresh character with every single bad trait (in the game?), unless I want to spend the time to remove them? Feeble/Fragile/Immunosuppressed/Unfit/Visually Impaired, at 18? Then repeatedly RNG'ing 1-3 years for each skill/trait/event add/removal? Wat?

Surprise aside (and ignoring the total lack of immersion), what I would have liked to do is just quickly make some informed decisions on what my character will start with, then get into the game. Normal RPG game stuff. What I don't want, is spending a large amount of time choosing multiple choice questions in "story" format, hoping that the outcome will fit my character and/or be useful. It feels like an unnecessary amount of time spent, and it takes away player agency.

I imagine this is even worse for (some) new players, expecting to find a game, and instead getting gated by the kiosk, and not knowing how to build their character at all.

One of the things I love about Neo Scavenger, is the ability to start a new character very quickly. I just select my traits and go. One of the things I love about Dwarf Fortress, is it's very detailed back stories - and how all that back story is hands free.

This is going to sound harsh, and maybe even be looked at as an overreaction by some, but I honestly cannot be bothered to go through Ostranaut's character creator just to start a new play through each time. That's how unfun and off-putting it is for me.

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That said, I don't want to just complain and not offer any constructive ideas. So I'd like to propose an idea/suggestion/alternative.

-First, add sexual orientation to the dating app (old suggestion - I'm still waiting for this - that WOULD be in a dating app after-all). Male/Female/Any/None etc. Still bugs me that RNG gets to decide orientation, or that everyone in space is just forced bisexual in the backstory.

-Second, instead of having your character's stats be generated one step at a time by the "choose your own adventure" thing... I propose instead you get direct control over what traits/skills you start with, using a one to three screen positive/negative system not unlike neo scavenger. Then generate the back story, based on those choices, with some RNG in there to mix things up. That way choosing similar starting stats/skills doesn't necessarily mean the same character - each play will still be unique and require some adapting. The existing backstory system would be preserved.. all that changes is how it's applied/selected, nearly completely automated based on your chosen skills/stats. New games will not only be much easier to start for new players, but much faster to start for experienced players.

Just in case meta/power gaming is a motivation for the current character designer, lets be honest - anyone that wants control over their start, is already trying to figure out every answer's outcomes. I used to do this and took notes (although I've forgotten where I saved my notes lol). And if "fun" is the primary motivation... well... I just don't find current character generation fun. The first couple times it was a little interesting. But now it's just a very very slow hurdle that prevents me from actually playing, and induces some anxiety from the lack of say I have in my character design.

-Third/Last, current ship choosing system is fine. After the above, allowing the choice of a ship start, even if you keep the "sacrifice a year or two for each roll" thing, would be preferable.

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Thanks for reading, and I hope anyone reading this can take this as constructive criticism, and not as a personal attack on the game.

[PcbZorg]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tritton82:

If it helps

Hell yeah that helps! Thanks for the link, will check it out!

[Mechanos]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tritton82:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PcbZorg:

To be honest i wouldn't mind the character creator AT ALL, the stories are interesting enough, i like those, what i don't like is that the RNG god is basically the ONLY thing that creates your character.
I would be perfectly satisfied if there was a backup way - preferably in the form of freeform zomboid-like pros/cons character editor with the usual rpg-ish points allocation.
I'm pretty sure that after doing a few runs with thusly finetuned character, i would even want to try runs with the RNG story characters.
But not having that option at all... that's just.. It just makes me not want to play anymore. And i hate that, because i did love the gameplay.

If it helps the only true RNG elements are a few risky options in the adventures section (locked behind certain skills), and the choice of adventure you get each year, everything else is set in stone. If you use this guide (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2999814646) to get you through the adventures it's quite straightforward to end up with a character who has both combat skills, all/most engineering skills, and is friends with the fixer, all by the time you're ~35.

You may have already mentioned this, and I apologize if I missed it in the thread, but the negatives that you start with aren't RNG based, they are just the Zero-G human baseline, every character starts with those elements.

I think there are a few other character creation guides, but if you're ever on the discord I'd be happy to go through my process.

The way you put that link in there, it doesn't load right when clicking and steam has blocked it as malicious. - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2999814646 - This should work. The guide doesn't appear to cover the importance of starter ship selection however, and the loans and time pressure to pay them, involved.

Most everyone knows or figures out "why" the negatives traits are there, and the psuedo explanations. It's still a weird gimmick though, and having to spend the time de-nerfing our characters, is not fun for "some" of us.

Devil's Advocate, If you need a guide just to figure out how to select things for your character, and have to go through that process each time.. You can probably see where I'm going with that. In PcbZorg's defense, for anyone not using a guide and not taking the time to figure out what each selection does (I attempted to, but didn't get everything), it's going to feel pretty random until they make a handful of characters (or more) and start to notice patterns. The story options also get very repetitive, so it's not like you get an epic story each time you create a character. It wasn't the very first play that I found the character creator insufferable.. not even the first 3 times. It was beyond that, when it just became an annoyance, barring me from playing, while also making certain decisions about my character's backstory that I simply did not want.

[tritton82]

Thanks for pointing out the link issue! You're right it doesn't cover the Ships, I was only focusing on the skills there.

[PcbZorg]

Thanks for fixing that link. I just copied it for later, but didn't actually check it. Planned to do it next Ostranauts session. So, thank you too!

[Greywolf]

The game is a space wrecker game not a dating sim. So sex, sexual orientation and so on should not be in the game. I prefer they put their resources in the core gaming mechanics than irrelevent things like that. If you want to play a dating sim, go play them, Ostranauts is not one of them.

I agree that your character should not have sixty two disadvantages at game start. He should only have one or two depending on their parents and their education as a child. Then it is up to you to decide what to do with those disadvantages. They should also come with advantages, which would make more sense.

The choose your own adventure character creator is a must. The game is part roleplaying part business sim. Replacing this great way to create a multi-dimensional character with a cold worthless stat block instead would kill the game at start. What they need to do is optimize the U.I. and create more stories for the character creation process. If you want ridiculous characters, just use a trainer, mod or hack to create those.

Devs, stick to your plan. It looks and feels great. :)

[PcbZorg]

Agree, the gameplay is solid. Interesting gameworld, great and entertaining content. But you have to get there first, and that's where the problems are...
Having near zero agency over the character creation (although i still do like the story elements), just makes it tough to start from scratch once again, especially after having to restart after many playthroughs.
I can't help myself but once again bring attention to the Project Zomboid's character generator. IMO the best way to do it in a game that has solid immersive sim roots.
The Ostranauts dev wouldn't have to throw away the story generator, just give players an option to pick how they want to create their char.
Do you want fully randomized story char, or do you want to have more control over the char creation? That would be GREAT.
It's SP after all, it wouldn't hurt anyone, and it would bring back the people who dislike the current RNG char creator.

[Greywolf]

remember the version : 0.14

It is waaaaaay far from version 1.0.

So expect vast improvements to pretty much everything. Character creation is a million times better than what it was prior to v0.1, and it will be better in 0.2, and 0.5, and so on. Just wait! :)

[jerrypocalypse]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Greywolf:

remember the version : 0.14

It is waaaaaay far from version 1.0.

So expect vast improvements to pretty much everything. Character creation is a million times better than what it was prior to v0.1, and it will be better in 0.2, and 0.5, and so on. Just wait! :)

That's not inherently how the numbering works. See their explanation in the pinned Roadmap article:

How does the version numbering work? Where is 1.0?

One of the first things you might notice is our new version numbering system. Going forward, we'll be using version numbers like 0.X.Y.Z, where:
X - A major feature or update.
Y - A significant change within the major update.
Z - A hotfix or patch.


And notably, versions like 0.8 don't directly correspond to "80% done." Ostranauts will leave Early Access sometime after 0.15, likely late 2024. At that point, we'll change the leading "0" to a "1." And we are approximately expecting about one of these major version updates per quarter. (Though some are definitely bigger than others, and therefore slower.)