Was the pathfinding AI improved?

[867-5309]

I still have my AoE Gold CD, and I still play it sometimes. Was the pathfinding AI updated in Definitive, or is it still the same broken mess it was in AoE and RoR?

[Maximus]

Nope. Its unplayable for me. Seems like they only updated the graphics and presentation with small tweaks. A shame.

[V I D A L]

It's part of the charm.
It's clear the game runs in the same original source code for accuracy.. along with the poor AI of the 90s.

[Redwood]

Get over the pathfinding; every game has its challenges. It is realistic because soldiers would not always follow orders even though they kind of do today.

[867-5309]

Originally posted by MGMax:

Nope. Its unplayable for me. Seems like they only updated the graphics and presentation with small tweaks. A shame.

Originally posted by V I D A L:

It's part of the charm.
It's clear the game runs in the same original source code for accuracy.. along with the poor AI of the 90s.

That's a real shame. I don't mind pixel graphics, so I guess I'll just stick with my old CD when I want to play original AoE. Thanks for the replies!

Originally posted by Redwood:

Get over the pathfinding; every game has its challenges. It is realistic because soldiers would not always follow orders even though they kind of do today.

I've been playing this game for nearly 20 years. My old game works. I'm not going to buy the game again if it still has the same major flaws two decades after original release.

[Zaxx]

I have no idea why previous posters told you what they did but YES, the developers DID IMPROVE on the original game's pathfinding. Don't expect anything modern, it's still running on the same engine so it has its limitations but pathing is significantly better than what you see in the original game.

Also: almost half of the campaign missions were redesigned, there are significant balance changes etc. compared to the original so the pathfinding itself is not really a great way to judge if DE is worth it to you or not.

[Nasca de Bacana]

While the pathfinding was improved in comparison to OG Age of Empires, it is still abysmal. If you want to funnel a area really hard, just build some walls with just a little zig zag and you will see that whatever force tries to cross will be stuck. Pathfinding is your worst enemy.

To me there is no charm, nostalgia factor or whatever reasoning people use to rationalize a game-breaking fault. It was not good back at 1997, it's unforgivable more than twenty years later.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by Nasca de Bacana:

While the pathfinding was improved in comparison to OG Age of Empires, it is still abysmal. If you want to funnel a area really hard, just build some walls with just a little zig zag and you will see that whatever force tries to cross will be stuck. Pathfinding is your worst enemy.

To me there is no charm, nostalgia factor or whatever reasoning people use to rationalize a game-breaking fault. It was not good back at 1997, it's unforgivable more than twenty years later.

It's a remaster, not a remake and the game was built around its shortcomings. For example there are campaign missions that you simply wouldn't be able to complete without the enemy AI being primitive and its unit paths ♥♥♥♥♥♥. It can be annoying for sure but compared to the original game it's a very significant improvement.

[Nasca de Bacana]

Remasters are supposed to fix the game breaking stuff, not keeping it and hope that the fanbase will keep pressing the overused "it's not a remake" button: while it EXPLAINS the issue, it will never JUSTIFY it.

And if there are campaign missions that are unwinnable, that's a imbalance issue on the mission (and a bit of sometimes the AI cheating). The bad path-finding hinders the AI as much as the players. But the players are still on the losing side, cause CPU can micromanage every single unit, dancing around your catapult stones and arrows when they are about to land.

"So in multiplayer we lead armed drunks with labyrinthitis and in single player we are leading the same armed drunks with labyrinthitis against armed drunks with labyrinthitis who are also Neos that can Matrix the shift out of your rain of arrows and catapult fire.

OK, I SIGNED TO A REMASTER, NOT A REMAKE!"

*Picard-Class facepalm*

[V I D A L]

Originally posted by Magnus Ironside:

Originally posted by MGMax:

Nope. Its unplayable for me. Seems like they only updated the graphics and presentation with small tweaks. A shame.

Originally posted by V I D A L:

It's part of the charm.
It's clear the game runs in the same original source code for accuracy.. along with the poor AI of the 90s.

That's a real shame. I don't mind pixel graphics, so I guess I'll just stick with my old CD when I want to play original AoE. Thanks for the replies!

Originally posted by Redwood:

Get over the pathfinding; every game has its challenges. It is realistic because soldiers would not always follow orders even though they kind of do today.

I've been playing this game for nearly 20 years. My old game works. I'm not going to buy the game again if it still has the same major flaws two decades after original release.

This version kept most of the flaws of the original, but added a ton of improvements. If you enjoy Age of Empires, this version is worth getting.. at least on sale.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by Nasca de Bacana:

Remasters are supposed to fix the game breaking stuff, not keeping it and hope that the fanbase will keep pressing the overused "it's not a remake" button: while it EXPLAINS the issue, it will never JUSTIFY it.

How does the fact that it cannot be done doesn't justify it? You know, the only way AoE 1 gets better pathfinding is a full on remake on a different engine, the developers did everything they could with the existing version of the game. You can rage about it and say how it sucks a million times, the situation won't change, there is no magical "pathfinding fix" that could be applied here, this is OG Genie engine with all of its flaws.

And really in the case of AoE 1 I think that you can make a case for the pathfinding being not up to snuff. The game can be very difficult for a bunch of different reasons (agressive enemy AI, missions where you have to think outside the box to progress etc.) but pathfinding is not really one of them: in the campaigns 50 is your population cap and if you can't micromanage that amount of units then chances are AoE 1 is not for you. Even if there were no pathing issues the game would just make you give up and rage quit at one of those "oh, here's a map, you're in a position where you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥, figure out where to build the base, dude!" missions.

[Nasca de Bacana]

Originally posted by Zaxx:

Originally posted by Nasca de Bacana:

Remasters are supposed to fix the game breaking stuff, not keeping it and hope that the fanbase will keep pressing the overused "it's not a remake" button: while it EXPLAINS the issue, it will never JUSTIFY it.

How does the fact that it cannot be done doesn't justify it? You know, the only way AoE 1 gets better pathfinding is a full on remake on a different engine, the developers did everything they could with the existing version of the game. You can rage about it and say how it sucks a million times, the situation won't change, there is no magical "pathfinding fix" that could be applied here, this is OG Genie engine with all of its flaws.

They added attack-move, research queues, automated farm reseeds, stances, THEY CHANGED FARMS TO PASSABLE BUILDINGS, a bunch of stuff that did not existed on the original game, so yes, the engine can handle the path-finding wololo via that sorcery called patches, if they want to.

Peace out.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by Nasca de Bacana:

They added attack-move, research queues, automated farm reseeds, stances, THEY CHANGED FARMS TO PASSABLE BUILDINGS, a bunch of stuff that did not existed on the original game, so yes, the engine can handle the path-finding wololo via that sorcery called patches, if they want to.

Compared to pathing what you've mentioned is all very simple stuff.

As I've said I get the frustration though, I mean the game's tough and things like AI kiting (the AI dodging your projectiles) can be very annoying. Personally I think they should have toned down behavior like AI kiting on the lower difficulties but welp, they didn't.

[Saber]

Originally posted by Redwood:

Get over the pathfinding; every game has its challenges. It is realistic because soldiers would not always follow orders even though they kind of do today.

Rip Greek Phalanxes

[Jooooo]

Originally posted by MGMax:

Nope. Its unplayable for me. Seems like they only updated the graphics and presentation with small tweaks. A shame.

that's not true, I recently played the original AoE Rise of Rome and has not those problems of pathfinding (it has but not the ridiculous stuff of this), at least not that huge issues.
The AI is another thing of the most annoying stuff of the game, extremely much worse than the original AI and so idiot too.

[Jooooo]

Originally posted by Nasca de Bacana:

Remasters are supposed to fix the game breaking stuff, not keeping it and hope that the fanbase will keep pressing the overused "it's not a remake" button: while it EXPLAINS the issue, it will never JUSTIFY it.

And if there are campaign missions that are unwinnable, that's a imbalance issue on the mission (and a bit of sometimes the AI cheating). The bad path-finding hinders the AI as much as the players. But the players are still on the losing side, cause CPU can micromanage every single unit, dancing around your catapult stones and arrows when they are about to land.

"So in multiplayer we lead armed drunks with labyrinthitis and in single player we are leading the same armed drunks with labyrinthitis against armed drunks with labyrinthitis who are also Neos that can Matrix the shift out of your rain of arrows and catapult fire.

OK, I SIGNED TO A REMASTER, NOT A REMAKE!"

*Picard-Class facepalm*

This game is a remake, not a remaster (the reply was not for you about this, sorry, but I should say it). I remember happened the same with Crash that clearly is a remake.
Another thing, ABSOLUTELY pass of this game and go buy AoE2 HD or DE is much more worthy.