frame dips/lag

[Chief]

Why is the game all of a sudden having frame dips? its not my pc. Just started this week. i swear these devs are idiots
edit: turning shadows completely off stopped it, but its ridiculous to have to do that in the first place. need a patch.

[Roenie]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1016120/discussions/0/3069740688726122459/

I got no response at all from the devs through email. Sent 3 emails and it's been almost a month since the intial report. The bug report I submitted to 2K hasn't been dealt with either because they ignored the fact that I submitted it as a bug report not a request for support, so I was given the even more ridiculous than expected "tech support" runaround despite already having isolated the bug, and it not occurring in TGC19. Going through 2K's tech support would've taken a ridiculous amount of time with zero guarantee that the bug once "escalated" by 2K would actually be fixed by HB Studios. If I was HB Studios and it was my game, and an IT engineer wrote a bug report email like I have done, which included precise steps how to reproduce the bug, I would've checked that out and I would've replied. 2K support too could've just started the game and reproduced the bug for themselves in literally 2 minutes. Neither the devs nor the publisher apparently care about their work.

Obviously it isn't our job to test their game in the first place.
They should've already known this bug existed.

Total waste of money. Never again will I buy from HB Studios / 2K. Be sure to leave a negative review like I did. In the off chance they do one day fix the bug, you can always change the review. From what I've seen, I doubt it'll ever be fixed.

[Zeokage]

What was the ticket number?

[Roenie]

See: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/a9e09db1/

Reporting or fixing this bug should not require a "support" ticket number, but it's in my email which I've pasted into that pastebin for you.

[ABERN]

Obviously it isn't our job to test their game in the first place.

They should've already known this bug existed.

Unless there is an abundance of reporting on this specific problem, it might be your system itself that is the cause. Try lowering other settings a bit and re-enabling shadows and see what happens.

I wouldn't, if I were you, attempt any kind of scaling upwards. It's not worth the frame hit, as the graphics hardly look any different.

I know it's a problem we all have: we noticed something, and then automatically assume it's the game and not our own system. Are you running a lot of stuff in the background?

If you think the game is a waste of money, that's fine. I just happen not to think this way.

I'm using a PC and shadows are ultra (or high) and I'm not having frame issues.

As computer users, we are loath to blame problems on ourselves and our systems, when in fact most bugs are not really bugs but are related to our own computer.

[Roenie]

NO. STOP. You don't know what you're talking about. "And I'm not having frame issues" - yes you are. Whether you have the hardware and well enough configured system to actually tell the difference is another matter. Your comment tells the story there: the stutters are there but you're not noticing them. Step one before you can judge it is to eliminate tearing by using v-sync or g-sync/freesync. (And for g-sync you need to force exclusive fullscreen mode, see the other thread I linked.) If you're running vsynced with fps below native Hz you can't tell either because it won't be smooth in the first place. Not smooth is what 99% of players are used to. They don't even know what smooth is as they've NEVER seen it before. I can reproduce the bug at 144, 142, 120, 100, and 60 fps, separately in v-sync and g-sync, while GPU and CPU load don't max out by a long shot.

Read the actual email in the pastebin link.
Then read this again: TGC19 does not have the same bug on the same system.
And yes, in 2K21 it is reproducible every single time.
It's exactly like Chief said in his opening post.

I'm an IT network and systems admin. I started gaming in the early 90s. Don't tell me, and Chief, and everybody else in the other threads reporting the exact same problem we don't know how to use a gaming PC just because you and most other people don't.

Unless there is an abundance of reporting on this specific problem, it might be your system itself that is the cause.

I have already disproved that. If it wasn't a bug, meaning: with 100% certainty requiring a patch from the devs, I would not have submitted it as a bug report. I would have solved the issue myself.

[ABERN]

Typical response. It's never a user problem. If it's s game bug, you'd have hundreds of reports on the same issue. Maybe thousands.

I once had a dentist who told me I had 17 cavities. Odd-- I said-- I don't see nor do I feel them.

Oh, no-- he says. You can't see them but they are there.

New dentist. New X-Rays. No cavities.

I mean, seriously, if I can't see these stutters and don't notice them, why would I care?

And how would I know they even exist, with no empirical evidence?

But wait, you're an IT. My first computer I bought was in the mid 80s. But what do I know? What I've learned is to never argue with an IT. Either they know everything, or else they are afraid to admit they are wrong. Arguing is futile.

[Roenie]

Go. Away. If you want to play at 35 fps with tearing up the wazoo on a 60hz monitor that's your problem. Don't make it ours.

And how would I know they even exist, with no empirical evidence?

Easy, you won't get a flatline frametime graph from RTSS.
But to a trained eye, the stutters are obvious and annoying as hell.
Annoying is one thing, but they ruin swing timing / tempo every now and again.

[ABERN]

I'm typically in the upper 90s as far as frames go. No tearing. No nothing.

Argue with yourself if you desire.

[Roenie]

Show me a flatline RTSS frametime graph recorded of an entire ball flight on the range, in ball chase cam, while shadows are enabled. It can't be done.

If you are in the upper 90s that means you are not using v-sync. And if you actually don't have tearing that means you have a g-sync or freesync monitor. Do you? If not, you have tearing, which at high fps like >90 looks like tiny microstutters most gamers are unaware of. And if it's g-sync did you force Unity into exclusive fullscreen mode by editing the registry and adding the launch parameter to the game in your library? If not, you have stutter.

It really does boil down to: if shadows are on in 2K21 you always have stutter no matter what. But obviously you're only in a position to notice if you know what you are doing and everything else is set up to offer a 100% smooth experience.

I'm even willing to bet the same bug is on console because they complain about swing tempo being randomly off for no apparent reason. The game is doing something with shadows Unity cannot handle and it most likely started when the devs ported over their assets from the older Unity engine used in TGC19, to the likely newer Unity version used in 2K21. And if that's what happened, the same bug is on consoles too.

[Cliffs]

I'm with Aber on this one. I have a 3060Ti and frame rates are a consistent 155. I see no stutter, shadows off/on and everything maxed out.

Now before you say I'm blind, do me a solid....try going to a putting green where you can putt for longest distance. I have hit a ton of putts and not one of them stutters as the ball travels over 150 feet. It should stutter just like you say it does in flight, yes? I have everything as high as the settings allow.

The reason I said try a putting green is the mow pattern will show you if the game stutters while putting as the mow lines will look jerky as the ball passes over them, would they not?

I am not saying you all don't see this stutter but some of us DON'T see it.

[Roenie]

Originally posted by Cliffs:

I'm with Aber on this one. I have a 3060Ti and frame rates are a consistent 155. I see no stutter, shadows off/on and everything maxed out.

This is where you go wrong unless you are using a g-sync monitor and have forced on exclusive fullscreen mode, because 155 means you are running without v-sync. Therefore to avoid tearing you require gsync (or freesync) to achieve actual optimal smoothness. That said, the stutters I get caused by the game itself are bad enough that you would notice even if the game is tearing due to not having any form of sync.

Originally posted by Cliffs:

Now before you say I'm blind, do me a solid....try going to a putting green where you can putt for longest distance. I have hit a ton of putts and not one of them stutters as the ball travels over 150 feet. It should stutter just like you say it does in flight, yes?

Tested, stutters on every shot.

All settings lowest, incl shadows off: 100% smooth
All settings lowest except shadows @ Low: stutters all the time (200 fps if uncapped)
All settings lowest except shadows @ Med: stutters all the time
All settings lowest except shadows @ High: stutters all the time
All settings high, but shadows OFF: 100% baby bottom smooth (>120 fps if uncapped)

it doesn't even matter what I do with regard to vsync, gsync, windowed, exclusive fullscreen mode, fps capped by ingame vsync sertting or with RTSS or neither, video resolution, turning off all overlays, etc etc. The only thing that affects the stutters is the shadows setting. I've retested this multiple times to confirm. It's immediate and obvious as soon as I toggle the shadows.

Same test in TGC2019: smooth regardless of shadow setting.

Nvidia driver 466.11 (=current), no change from 465.89.

Here's 2 more people with likely the same issue:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thegolfclub/comments/c2tgy6/frame_rate_issues/
More here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1016120/discussions/0/2993170476554338375/
And here, the thread I already linked in my 1st post:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1016120/discussions/0/3069740688726122459/

TGC19's UnityPlayer.dll's file properties say version 2018.1
2K21's UnityPlayer.dll's file properties say version 2019.4
Unity's changed between the two versions, in terms of job queuing. In 2K21, compared to TGC19, I noticed a change to gamedit\golf_Data\boot.config in order to make use of the new feature, it seems. This is what the devs added:
gfx-enable-gfx-jobs=1
gfx-enable-native-gfx-jobs=1

Unfortunately, changing both to =0 did not affect the issue. Nice try though, right?

In the nvidia drivers, turning Low latency mode off, as opposed to on (=max prerendered frames 1) could in theory make things easier for Unity to smooth things out by preparing more than 1 frame before it's needed, but made no difference either.

All my other games, even Cyberpunk run smoothly here, even if that one runs at lower fps. ;)

[Roenie]

Cliffs, what nvidia driver version are you on?

[gtgud]

I notice this stutter a lot when I start to swing, there is a hiccup where the game is not always ready for the initial drawback, and then it just skips that first little bit of the swing and continues on. But, it can mess with good timing.

It's annoying, to be sure. But, when I see that initial swing hiccup, I just restart my swing until it's smooth.

I was watching a stream of someone playing the Xbox, on Twitch, and the game straight up froze up, for a few seconds, mid-flight. You can't tell me the game is optimized when stuff like that continues to happen, across platforms.

This game is just very poorly optimized, because even at max settings, it still looks like a mobile game. Of course, when the swing animation is generic, and constantly whiffs at the ball, you will invariably get that mini-golf, mobile/browser game feel. They really need to do better with motion capture.

This game needs a complete engine overhaul, because, since The Golf Club, whatever makeshift Unity engine this game is running has always made systems run excessively, making fans run louder than the sum of this game's own graphical parts.

One question: Does turning off shadows remove the halo from the cup? Because, if so, I might go with that.

[Cliffs]

Originally posted by Roenie:

Cliffs, what nvidia driver version are you on?

466.11 will load the new update later.

I went ahead and loaded this on another desktop I have. It has a 1080Ti in it and it also DOES NOT stutter at highest settings with bloom and depth of field off.

[Zeokage]

Originally posted by Roenie:

See: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/a9e09db1/

Reporting or fixing this bug should not require a "support" ticket number, but it's in my email which I've pasted into that pastebin for you.

For your bug to make it through to the developers, even if you know exactly what's causing it, you need to follow the protocols and systems put in place by 2K Support. That includes going through all of their troubleshooting requests and sending in any evidence they ask for to the best of your ability. This is how their issue filtering system works and they have to do it to every ticket.

Otherwise, the bug being escalated to the developers is not going to happen. It doesn't matter if you're an IT network and systems admin, a moderator, a long-time fan who has spent thousands on 2K's franchises, or a casual player who just bought the standard version for the first time, everyone is equal in this system.