This is the complete antithesis of the original game.

[outcast]

I just want to say that I will be very critical in this post but by laying out all that I feel is wrong with this game I still hope it can be seen as "constructive criticism" as I truly wish for nothing more than to get a follow up to Outcast that is really true to the original instead of something that feels like a tired copy paste of other games.

Just finished the game and almost feel physically ill.
This is the complete reversion and Antithesis of everything that made the original Outcast so great.

You can't find a bigger fan of the original Outcast than me (just look at my username) and it is my most favorite game of all time. I have preached about it to everyone I know for the past 25 years since I played the original and it has followed me like a dead lover that can't be replaced by anything else as nothing compares to it. And while that game is still ahead of many games even today with features that still no other game has replicated this sequel rips all that out of it to instead take everything that is wrong with games today to cram that into one single package.

In the original Outcast you where dropped in an alien world that immersed you into it like no other and it felt magical, dynamic and like a REAL ADVENTURE with a sense of internal logic and explanation for every feature and game element where you had to find your way by talking to its inhabitants and learning about the world and its interesting lore. It truly felt like a real adventure where you where exploring a mysterious alien world.

In the sequel all that is gone and it is the most bland generic cookie cutter handholding game you can find with the same tired mmo style dull formula we have seen a thousand times before. Just disconnect your brain completely and follow that breadcrumb "magic arrow" to its next destination. The game could essentially play itself if you could just program it to follow the marker. You could skip every single conversation in the game and it would not matter as you don't need to actually learn or think in any way. Just be dragged by the hand with the "quest" plastered on the screen to "kill x amount of this enemy" or "pick x amount of that plant". Or do some stupid isolated nonsensical minigame that feels ripped out of a mobile game. Again while the original game felt real, logical and immersive this does everything to throw all that out the window and feels artifical and fake at every turn. Like everything is just a theme park version of Adelpha where you fly to the 25:th iteration of the same dull task that you have done innumerable times before doing some parkour race with glowing lights or fighting the same copy paste battle that you have done before. It is the most lazy copy paste "quests" and activities you can think off and if you have played any number of games you have done the exact same thing to death untold times before. Then you enter a city and go to the static signposts NPC with big "!" signs over their heads. Again it just reeks of fake and artificial with zero inclination of even trying to feel immersive. Compare these NPC:s and "AI" that behaves as signposts to the original which still 25 years later has features that not even new games have. You could ask NPC:s for the location of other NPC:s and they would tell you where they saw them last, or even point at them if they are close. They would not want to gossip about other NPC:s if that NPC actually was near them and if you talk to a Talan other Talans will often stop and eavesdrop etc. And converations could even be interrupted by enemies mid dialogue if they got to close. Everything was made to feel real, immersive, dynamic and authentic. This time it is the complete opposite and to call this even a "downgrade" in terms of these system would be an insult. It is like the game is constantly trying its best to drag you out of the illusion of its world and to remind you that you are just playing a game.

Speaking of the Talans they don't even look like the original design where they actually looked like aliens, now they look more like humans in rubber suits. Even the dialogue and voices often sounds really off and is filled with inconsistencies where they sometimes use words that does not fit at all to how they normally speak. Some use words like, "dude" and "cool" and even use some of the human expressions that normally they would take litterary and not understand like "busting my balls" or "taking a raincheck". It all feels very sloppy and not at all as involving, interesting or consistent like the original. Many times the dialogue like the rest of the game feels like it is full of pointless filler. And while the original also had a big dose of humour it felt fitting while here often the Talans come across as cartoonish and silly. Like something out of a kids show.

If there is anything positive I can say about the game it would be that the graphics and environment are actually quite beautiful. The environment is lush and has a great deal of verticality. I do think things look a bit too colorful and cartoonish and more like something out of the Avatar than the original Outcast that felt more gloomy, unique and mysterious, and some of the Talan buildings also look "off" to me somehow like they are not as throughout and consistent with the original style of the game, but it still looks nice to look at and if the rest of the game actually was faithful to the original I would be content with this new direction. Though the vast environment also makes me sad since it all just reminds you of all the wasted potential. I imagine how it would be like to actually explore this world if the gameplay and immersion was even anything close to the original. But there is zero purpose to even exploring the world as all you have to do is look out for the "markers" and all is just a fake purposeless backdrop to fill with dull copy paste filler content.

I have waited 25 years for this and it feels sad to think now that I wished this game was never made. It taints and corrupts everything that was so great and special about the original game. Replacing it with the complete opposite of what made that game so magical with the most tired generic Ubisoft style mmo gameplay there is. It is truly sad beyond belief.

I don't know if this was the nail in the coffin for Outcast. The original game recieved great reviews (about 90% on metacritic) and I know many people who played it still also put it at the top of their all time favorites, and the only reason it did not get better reviews was because of some issues with bugs and possibly also the voxel graphics (which I absolutely love). Unfortunately it did not sell well enough but it had nothing to do with the quality of the game which was stellar and probably more a mix of bad luck and perhaps lack of marketing (the trailer made it look like a stupid action game, instead of the great adventure game that it was with a deep world and interesting lore to explore.) I don't know how this game will sell and it seems many mistakes where made again with the marketing (really bad idea to release it on the Steam Spring Sale for example) and it will not get near the same appraisal as it has nothing original or groundbreaking in it. I think Appeal really could have resurrected the franchise with this game if they had only stuck to what made the original game so special. If there ever was a third one I don't know if there is any chance that they could go back to that and make it justice and make something truly special. I don't even know if the people who made that game the genius it was are still on the team anymore as I only recognized a couple of names from the credits and judging by this game they don't seem to understand what actually made the original so special. Or they where afraid and tried to "play it safe" by doing a copy of other games. I had no hope that there would actually even be a sequel to the original Outcast so perhaps there can still be a miracle. I can wish for it, but by judging by the complete wrong direction of this game it feels really dark.

As I wrote at the top this game truly feels like the complete antithesis of the original. The original felt authentic, mysterious immersive and dynamic and this just feels like the complete opposite of being fake, gamey and artificial.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Never played the original but in terms of gameplay it's great, it has amazing traversal as well and isn't limited to le stamina bars which is good plus gliding feels pretty fun

I'll check out the original once I'm done but tbh think you're overreacting a bit lol. Feeling physically sick is a tad much, it's a video game and times change tbh.
Even resident ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evil is going open world now for god knows what reason

[geniusprime]

I have played the original game, voxel twice and the remastered. I enjoyed this game. It made many good decisions with the overall design. Traversal with the jetpack is fun and exploring the world equally fun. Prior to playing this, I went back to the original and didn't realize how easy it was to mass murder solider talons. 😂

"a REAL ADVENTURE with a sense of internal logic and explanation for every feature and game element where you had to find your way by talking to its inhabitants and learning about the world and its interesting lore. It truly felt like a real adventure where you where exploring a mysterious alien world."

This literally exists in the current game. Nothing has change in this regard but you follow up this comment with "In the sequel all that is gone and it is the most bland generic cookie cutter handholding game"

The original game was filled with repetitive tasks because all games are filled with repetitive tasks. It is the nature of games. I can boil down the original to "All you do in the game is run from one person to the next, listen to cringe dialogue, intermittently shoot things, talk to more people and the game is done". Cookie cutter, rinse repeat, dialogue simulator. Would that be accurate? Nope! You don't like the new game and because of that, things that were fine before is now a problem except amplified and skewed with the dislike lens. This is common for everyone who dislike something for whatever reason.

Let's keep it real. The original game was a flop. It was a struggle for the team to even get a remaster and it took 25 years for a sequel. Most gamers never heard of the game or cared. Some that played it may have found it ugly, clunky and boring. The original game had charm and offered a lot of new things because the landscape of 3d gaming was new. To expect the same level of innovation 25 years later is an unrealistic expectation. The feeling you had with the original game can never be recaptured. Those experiences are one time experiences as in once it is experienced, you cannot recapture but you can nostalgia it when playing the original.

There are opportunities for the game to be better without a doubt but the complaints lobbied against reads more like the lens of nostalgia with obvious contradictions. With that said, you feel how you feel. Nothing I write or you write is going to change how anyone feels about the game.

[WZ]

The more I progressed in this one the more it felt like yeah, this is Outcast 2. It's not front loaded at all, NGL the beginning gave me a pretty bad impression, but I did have fun on the whole, glad it exists, glad I played it.

I disliked:
- the Gork nodes. Bases were fun combat, but that was boring combat.
- the Nom Nom races. Worst controls in a racing game / minigame since Sonic R.
- the new VAs, nowhere near the quality of the old talent.
- maxed jetpack makes the game a lot more fun, but comes way too late.
- antagonist way too dumb for his job, Fae Rahn was more believable / detestable.

I liked just about everything else. By the time I reached Desan I was having an absolute blast. The stupid part of me misses the old Voxel look, and asking people around for directions - which was indeed more immersive - but I get that neither would work in this game / on this scale.

Thanks devs, here's hoping to see an Outcast 3 someday.

[outcast]

Originally posted by geniusprime:

I have played the original game, voxel twice and the remastered. I enjoyed this game. It made many good decisions with the overall design. Traversal with the jetpack is fun and exploring the world equally fun. Prior to playing this, I went back to the original and didn't realize how easy it was to mass murder solider talons. 😂

"a REAL ADVENTURE with a sense of internal logic and explanation for every feature and game element where you had to find your way by talking to its inhabitants and learning about the world and its interesting lore. It truly felt like a real adventure where you where exploring a mysterious alien world."

This literally exists in the current game. Nothing has change in this regard but you follow up this comment with "In the sequel all that is gone and it is the most bland generic cookie cutter handholding game"

The original game was filled with repetitive tasks because all games are filled with repetitive tasks. It is the nature of games. I can boil down the original to "All you do in the game is run from one person to the next, listen to cringe dialogue, intermittently shoot things, talk to more people and the game is done". Cookie cutter, rinse repeat, dialogue simulator. Would that be accurate? Nope! You don't like the new game and because of that, things that were fine before is now a problem except amplified and skewed with the dislike lens. This is common for everyone who dislike something for whatever reason.

Let's keep it real. The original game was a flop. It was a struggle for the team to even get a remaster and it took 25 years for a sequel. Most gamers never heard of the game or cared. Some that played it may have found it ugly, clunky and boring. The original game had charm and offered a lot of new things because the landscape of 3d gaming was new. To expect the same level of innovation 25 years later is an unrealistic expectation. The feeling you had with the original game can never be recaptured. Those experiences are one time experiences as in once it is experienced, you cannot recapture but you can nostalgia it when playing the original.

There are opportunities for the game to be better without a doubt but the complaints lobbied against reads more like the lens of nostalgia with obvious contradictions. With that said, you feel how you feel. Nothing I write or you write is going to change how anyone feels about the game.

If you honestly don't understand or see the difference it is hopeless to even argue with someone like you. I could also say "All games are made up of pressing buttons so therefore they are the same". But I would feel embarrassed if I said something like that.

There can be a "fetch quest" in both games, but take one example in the original where you are tasked with finding someone to deliver an item. You are told the person you seek is in the builders block in Talanzaar. You have to actually go there and look for him. You can ask other Talans if they know his locations or try to look for the builders block (district). You can roam around in the city looking at the stores and stands to see what block you are in (the fruit block has fruit and the fish block has fish, while the builders block is filled with noise of Talans working and tools and building material). Or you can follow the signs in the road or ask Talans in which block you are located. When you finally find the person you seek it is a real accomplishment you made "organically" where you had to use your senses, listen to conversations and actually do some "detective work" to reach your target. It truly feels like a real adventure. Contrast that to how it would be in this game. You get a big marker slapped on the screen and on your "GPS" and a text prompt on the screen just to make sure you are getting the hint to follow that marker on the screen and that is all there is too it. You are treated like a complete idiot who needs to be guided by the hand every step on the way. You don't have to even listen to the conversation for the quest or what anyone say, you can skip it all and just follow that marker to the destination like a brainless vegetable. Again if you don't see the difference between those there is no use even trying to explain it and have fun just sitting there getting spoon feed content. And this in turn makes things feel flat, artificial and fake. Like being guided around in a theme park between "attractions" to ride to tick them of the list. The complete opposite of the feeling in the original.

And no, it is not just nostalgia, I actually replayed the original just again to make sure and the contrast between the game can't be more pronounced. Even the rich lore and culture of the Talans have been completely butchered. In the original everything felt very mysterious, especially around the Talans culture and their temples etc. In this game all that lore and culture and temples have been transformed into "tourist attractions" for the player to do an ungodly amount of flying parkour minigames on a ticking timer. It truly feels like desecrating everything that was so carefully and thoughtfully built up in the first game and all that rich lore. All the mystery and magic is completely evaporated. It is truly fast food for people to sit with eyes glazed over and just consume.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by outcast:

Originally posted by geniusprime:

I have played the original game, voxel twice and the remastered. I enjoyed this game. It made many good decisions with the overall design. Traversal with the jetpack is fun and exploring the world equally fun. Prior to playing this, I went back to the original and didn't realize how easy it was to mass murder solider talons. 😂

"a REAL ADVENTURE with a sense of internal logic and explanation for every feature and game element where you had to find your way by talking to its inhabitants and learning about the world and its interesting lore. It truly felt like a real adventure where you where exploring a mysterious alien world."

This literally exists in the current game. Nothing has change in this regard but you follow up this comment with "In the sequel all that is gone and it is the most bland generic cookie cutter handholding game"

The original game was filled with repetitive tasks because all games are filled with repetitive tasks. It is the nature of games. I can boil down the original to "All you do in the game is run from one person to the next, listen to cringe dialogue, intermittently shoot things, talk to more people and the game is done". Cookie cutter, rinse repeat, dialogue simulator. Would that be accurate? Nope! You don't like the new game and because of that, things that were fine before is now a problem except amplified and skewed with the dislike lens. This is common for everyone who dislike something for whatever reason.

Let's keep it real. The original game was a flop. It was a struggle for the team to even get a remaster and it took 25 years for a sequel. Most gamers never heard of the game or cared. Some that played it may have found it ugly, clunky and boring. The original game had charm and offered a lot of new things because the landscape of 3d gaming was new. To expect the same level of innovation 25 years later is an unrealistic expectation. The feeling you had with the original game can never be recaptured. Those experiences are one time experiences as in once it is experienced, you cannot recapture but you can nostalgia it when playing the original.

There are opportunities for the game to be better without a doubt but the complaints lobbied against reads more like the lens of nostalgia with obvious contradictions. With that said, you feel how you feel. Nothing I write or you write is going to change how anyone feels about the game.

If you honestly don't understand or see the difference it is hopeless to even argue with someone like you. I could also say "All games are made up of pressing buttons so therefore they are the same". But I would feel embarrassed if I said something like that.

There can be a "fetch quest" in both games, but take one example in the original where you are tasked with finding someone to deliver an item. You are told the person you seek is in the builders block in Talanzaar. You have to actually go there and look for him. You can ask other Talans if they know his locations or try to look for the builders block (district). You can roam around in the city looking at the stores and stands to see what block you are in (the fruit block has fruit and the fish block has fish, while the builders block is filled with noise of Talans working and tools and building material). Or you can follow the signs in the road or ask Talans in which block you are located. When you finally find the person you seek it is a real accomplishment you made "organically" where you had to use your senses, listen to conversations and actually do some "detective work" to reach your target. It truly feels like a real adventure. Contrast that to how it would be in this game. You get a big marker slapped on the screen and on your "GPS" and a text prompt on the screen just to make sure you are getting the hint to follow that marker on the screen and that is all there is too it. You are treated like a complete idiot who needs to be guided by the hand every step on the way. You don't have to even listen to the conversation for the quest or what anyone say, you can skip it all and just follow that marker to the destination like a brainless vegetable. Again if you don't see the difference between those there is no use even trying to explain it and have fun just sitting there getting spoon feed content. And this in turn makes things feel flat, artificial and fake. Like being guided around in a theme park between "attractions" to ride to tick them of the list. The complete opposite of the feeling in the original.

And no, it is not just nostalgia, I actually replayed the original just again to make sure and the contrast between the game can't be more pronounced. Even the rich lore and culture of the Talans have been completely butchered. In the original everything felt very mysterious, especially around the Talans culture and their temples etc. In this game all that lore and culture and temples have been transformed into "tourist attractions" for the player to do an ungodly amount of flying parkour minigames on a ticking timer. It truly feels like desecrating everything that was so carefully and thoughtfully built up in the first game and all that rich lore. All the mystery and magic is completely evaporated. It is truly fast food for people to sit with eyes glazed over and just consume.

you're expecting a lot of out of date mechanics for a modern game lol. If you don't like using the waypoints just don't use them? You have to specifically press down on the d-pad to get the marker to pop up on your screen. This was the only way to keep it marketable and successful, having to talk to everyone just to know where to go sounds like a pain. I'm all for immersive games and a lack of waypoints but that just sounds annoying.

Also I read that they have plans to remove some of the HUD features as an option so you can cry a little less.

[outcast]

Originally posted by Johnathon Fortnite:

Originally posted by outcast:

If you honestly don't understand or see the difference it is hopeless to even argue with someone like you. I could also say "All games are made up of pressing buttons so therefore they are the same". But I would feel embarrassed if I said something like that.

There can be a "fetch quest" in both games, but take one example in the original where you are tasked with finding someone to deliver an item. You are told the person you seek is in the builders block in Talanzaar. You have to actually go there and look for him. You can ask other Talans if they know his locations or try to look for the builders block (district). You can roam around in the city looking at the stores and stands to see what block you are in (the fruit block has fruit and the fish block has fish, while the builders block is filled with noise of Talans working and tools and building material). Or you can follow the signs in the road or ask Talans in which block you are located. When you finally find the person you seek it is a real accomplishment you made "organically" where you had to use your senses, listen to conversations and actually do some "detective work" to reach your target. It truly feels like a real adventure. Contrast that to how it would be in this game. You get a big marker slapped on the screen and on your "GPS" and a text prompt on the screen just to make sure you are getting the hint to follow that marker on the screen and that is all there is too it. You are treated like a complete idiot who needs to be guided by the hand every step on the way. You don't have to even listen to the conversation for the quest or what anyone say, you can skip it all and just follow that marker to the destination like a brainless vegetable. Again if you don't see the difference between those there is no use even trying to explain it and have fun just sitting there getting spoon feed content. And this in turn makes things feel flat, artificial and fake. Like being guided around in a theme park between "attractions" to ride to tick them of the list. The complete opposite of the feeling in the original.

And no, it is not just nostalgia, I actually replayed the original just again to make sure and the contrast between the game can't be more pronounced. Even the rich lore and culture of the Talans have been completely butchered. In the original everything felt very mysterious, especially around the Talans culture and their temples etc. In this game all that lore and culture and temples have been transformed into "tourist attractions" for the player to do an ungodly amount of flying parkour minigames on a ticking timer. It truly feels like desecrating everything that was so carefully and thoughtfully built up in the first game and all that rich lore. All the mystery and magic is completely evaporated. It is truly fast food for people to sit with eyes glazed over and just consume.

you're expecting a lot of out of date mechanics for a modern game lol. If you don't like using the waypoints just don't use them? You have to specifically press down on the d-pad to get the marker to pop up on your screen. This was the only way to keep it marketable and successful, having to talk to everyone just to know where to go sounds like a pain. I'm all for immersive games and a lack of waypoints but that just sounds annoying.

Also I read that they have plans to remove some of the HUD features as an option so you can cry a little less.

Honestly not sure why I even continue to try to continue this "discussion", it is truly like trying to have a discussion with a wall. Interesting emergent AI is apparently "out of date". I wish I had this low standards also for modern gaming. Also "if you don't like waypoints dont use them" you say, without even understanding that you have no other way to find your target without using them as this game does not have any of those "out of date mechanics" to find your way in other ways. Try to think for one second before writing something.

The complete lack of HUD options was another huge mistake, but I already was able to toggle HUD on and off with the Unreal engine unlocker. But again, the game is completely designed around the player just blindly following the marker around so it does not help and as I have pointed out before the marker system is far from the only reason why the game is completely artificial and un-immersive on every level. At least I could get rid of those tutorial prompts that follow the player around to explain how to move the left stick when you hover around even after 30+ hours in the game. The game is truly treating the player like a brainless child that can't be left out of sight. It is insulting. But the scary thing really is all the people who don't even mind it.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by outcast:

Originally posted by Johnathon Fortnite:

you're expecting a lot of out of date mechanics for a modern game lol. If you don't like using the waypoints just don't use them? You have to specifically press down on the d-pad to get the marker to pop up on your screen. This was the only way to keep it marketable and successful, having to talk to everyone just to know where to go sounds like a pain. I'm all for immersive games and a lack of waypoints but that just sounds annoying.

Also I read that they have plans to remove some of the HUD features as an option so you can cry a little less.

Honestly not sure why I even continue to try to continue this "discussion", it is truly like trying to have a discussion with a wall. Interesting emergent AI is apparently "out of date". I wish I had this low standards also for modern gaming. Also "if you don't like waypoints dont use them" you say, without even understanding that you have no other way to find your target without using them. Try to think for one second before writing something.

The complete lack of HUD options was another huge mistake, but I already was able to toggle HUD on and off with the Unreal engine unlocker. But again, the game is completely designed around the player just blindly following the marker around so it does not help and as I have pointed out before the marker system is far from the only reason why the game is completely artificial and un-immersive on every level.

if I like the game and the devs like the game i kinda don't think I give a ♥♥♥♥ lol.

And what I was saying was not that emergent ai???? was bad but having to talk to an entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ city to find one guy sounds like a huge pain in the ass. And I was told to find a guy who was the head of the village so I just walked to the big place with a guy who had a big hat. Didn't need a waypoint for that and I didn't need to talk to every living being in the village.
I get why you're upset, one of my own beloved franchises (abe) has been obliterated but that's how games work. Times change, you don't have to play it if you don't like it.

I don't like dragons dogma 2 whatsoever, I stopped playing and went back to ddda. What I didn't do was cry about how the game was different (apart from complaining about how health worked lmao)
This isn't really a discussion it's just a way of you venting your frustrations to people who either don't know better or are too entertained by a decent but janky game to give a ♥♥♥♥ because the original came out in 1999

[legaiaflame]

This game's world does not feel artificial. If you want to see artificial open world look at FF7 Rebirth activities. But, sure, any user interface or quest markers will be to a degree. But looking past that, everything else feels authentic to the Outcast universe: characters, lore, creatures, atmosphere, story are genuine to what came before. And the story is really good; making me care about Cutter Slade and his journey to get back to his daughter. There are also tons of nods to the first game, literally spoken out loud and even an in-game joke with the museum you get to go to.

And for the guy saying all of the lore such as the Talon Fae essence types are missing, there is literally a village in the game where the Talons go to revert and release their Fae Essence, Wind, Water Fire, etc. So, maybe he should play the full game before he makes false remarks.

I honestly don't care about the handholding. I don't need to waste hours searching out a person or place, I just want to play the game as I go and be engaged in the story and world. The activities you did in the original were just as boring. Fight the same Talons in their enemy encampments over and over again. The original wasn't without its flaws either as the combat was incredibly limited, slow and repetitive. The sequel is far more fun to play.

[Orkhepaj]

Originally posted by legaiaflame:

Originally posted by outcast:

We clearly value completely different things in the original game and games in general. Again my main gripe is that this game does much of the complete opposite of what the original did. And like I wrote to me it is really much of the complete antithesis in terms of design philosophy compared to the original game. While that game had everything I love, this game has pretty much everything I loathe in gaming today. The reason the original is still my favorite game 25 years later after having played 1000:s of other games is that that game focused on feeling authentic, immersive, dynamic and like everything had a reason and explanation in the world to drag you into that world and believe it was almost real. Even how the save system was not just a tacked on menu but you actually had the crystal that you had to take out and squeeze and it emitted a light that could alert enemies. Everything had deliberate thought behind it and like every part had a reason and internal logic to make you believe in the world all the more.

Compare all that to this that is as artificial and fake as it comes. Everything feels like a theme park with fake scaffoldings and does not even try to be convincing as you do another race against a light with a big "RESET" button prompt on the screen while bouncing around on flowers like in a Mario game. Or doing the 25:th iterations of the exact same activity on another marker on the map while at the end opening a glowing chest or punching a flower to get the reward. Or doing one of the isolated minigames with tutorial prompts that pop up to explain the current minigame. It is bland, fake, artificial and the complete opposite of believable or immersive and have been done to death in other games. It is just filler "content" to spoon feed the player to fill up time. It does not help that every quest feels completely trivial and there is zero challenge and you just have to go through the motions. I played on Hard but I never once felt the slightest challenge or even pushback from the game in any way. It was really like being dragged around from one point to another to just do the next busy task.

About the map markers, I do loath map markers but honestly they are not the main gripe as most other games these days have them and still can manage to feel interesting in other ways. Games like The Witcher 3 and Baldurs Gate 3 etc have map markers but the actual quests are still engaging and involving so it is possible. The issue with Outcast "2":s quests though is that they are as bland as they come and to me they reek of MMO style with small bite sized quick missions that all feel bland and like busy tasks. All the quests you describe have mechanics that have been done to death in other games and only adds to the feeling of the game feeling artificial and fake as opposed to dynamic and immersive. Take the escort missions, it is the usual thing where you are locked into a route where your escort moves on a set route a bit and then at predictable intervals there comes a wave of enemies then you move a bit and another wave comes. You could predict it in your sleep. Repeat 3-4 times and the "mission is completed". The herding mission is the same, a tutorial prompt pops up on the screen informing the player that he needs to herd the sheep into the pen, completely artificial and gamey and anyone who has even played a handful of games have done the exact same things more times than can be counted in other games. "find a junkyard at the bottom of a ravine and destroy toxic barrels" consists of just flying to the magic marker and destroying x amounts of mounds and shooting x amount of barrels. Very involving.

As for navigating without quest markers it would be a challenge indeed but it could be done as other big games have done it (Morrowind is one example of a huge game without them etc). They could have used the same system from the original Talans pointing the way or honestly if the game even cared about even trying to have some sort of internal logic and explanation for things they could have gone with having glowing lights that showed the way and the explanation could be that it is the Yods that is guiding the Ulukai. Anything to at least *try* to make things feel believable in some way. Honestly the hugely popular Elden Ring would be a great inspiration of a huge open world game without map markers and where you instead get some guidance from speaking to the NPC:s, just exploring and even the guidance of grace light that points the way. But this game completely lacks even trying to do that even though it could have a good context for it with the Yods and the general magical fantastical nature of the game (it is harder to make a logical explanation in a purely realistic game) and instead just slaps on the usual generic hud interface with a magic marker and quest panel cluttering up the screen that have no context at all and just screams at you that you are just playing another generic game.

So yes we clearly value completely different things. I could see how this could be entertaining like other games like it if one just wants to disconnect the mind and zone out. It is the exact same formula of other Ubisoft type titles or mmo:s that also serve a buffe of repeating busy tasks. But it is nothing like the original Outcast.

Sorry, but again I respectfully disagree. Open world games need good user interface options and quest trackers. It's 2024 and is pretty much a basic requirement of all open world games. Not having them, makes the game feel archaic and dated or quite frankly, not made well. The world is far from artificial with them in place. Sure the Gamsav was cool for the time, I get that. But that doesn't work in a massive open world game today, where you need to save your progress fast and efficiently.

Bouncing off of flowers is a mechanic that helps and aids the gliding. As to give you height fast. Which makes the gliding mechanic more fun and easier to use throughout the world. Without it you would spend needless time jumping up cliffs to even get the needed height You need. It's there for a faster alternative to get places. Which is great.

As for the issue you have with repetition. Almost every open world game has repetitive aspects to it. No open world game can escape it. Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom, had excessive resource gathering and dull npc sidequests, The Witcher 3 had copy and paste monster hunts, Skyrim had copy and paste dungeon aesthetics, Starfield has copy and paste planet exploration. The list goes on. At least this game has a beautifully crafted world to explore, fun character interactions and dialogue and a fun story. Some open world games don't even have that.

you are wrong here

AAA modern games are boring because they are sterile due to these intense handholdings

these are not basic requirements at all , only if you want to cater to the most lazy gamers who cant focus for 1 minute and always need to be told what to do

[legaiaflame]

And I don't agree. Even Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom (An example of one of the few games in the genre that gave you complete freedom) has markers to show you where the Divine Beasts are in each region, map trackers, distance trackers, Korok and treasure pins etc. the list goes on.

So, no, you at least need some kind of marker or indicator or it's just bad game design and an unorganized mess. The player needs to at least be able to keep track of something on some level for the sake of completion info.

[Johnathon Fortnite]

Originally posted by Orkhepaj:

Originally posted by legaiaflame:

Sorry, but again I respectfully disagree. Open world games need good user interface options and quest trackers. It's 2024 and is pretty much a basic requirement of all open world games. Not having them, makes the game feel archaic and dated or quite frankly, not made well. The world is far from artificial with them in place. Sure the Gamsav was cool for the time, I get that. But that doesn't work in a massive open world game today, where you need to save your progress fast and efficiently.

Bouncing off of flowers is a mechanic that helps and aids the gliding. As to give you height fast. Which makes the gliding mechanic more fun and easier to use throughout the world. Without it you would spend needless time jumping up cliffs to even get the needed height You need. It's there for a faster alternative to get places. Which is great.

As for the issue you have with repetition. Almost every open world game has repetitive aspects to it. No open world game can escape it. Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom, had excessive resource gathering and dull npc sidequests, The Witcher 3 had copy and paste monster hunts, Skyrim had copy and paste dungeon aesthetics, Starfield has copy and paste planet exploration. The list goes on. At least this game has a beautifully crafted world to explore, fun character interactions and dialogue and a fun story. Some open world games don't even have that.

you are wrong here

AAA modern games are boring because they are sterile due to these intense handholdings

these are not basic requirements at all , only if you want to cater to the most lazy gamers who cant focus for 1 minute and always need to be told what to do

Triple a games are boring because they don't take risks and rarely give you anything outside of the ordinary imo. This game on the otherhand gives you a jetpack and go to ♥♥♥♥ around.
Not just because they hold your hand. I'm not a huge fan of elden ring and that's triple a. Same with other souls likes. There's more to it than just that lol

Personally I'd like to occasionally play a game that holds my hand and at other times not. (This game) it's not a black and white thing

[outcast]

Originally posted by legaiaflame:

This game's world does not feel artificial. If you want to see artificial open world look at FF7 Rebirth activities. But, sure, any user interface or quest markers will be to a degree. But looking past that, everything else feels authentic to the Outcast universe: characters, lore, creatures, atmosphere, story are genuine to what came before. And the story is really good; making me care about Cutter Slade and his journey to get back to his daughter. There are also tons of nods to the first game, literally spoken out loud and even an in-game joke with the museum you get to go to.

And for the guy saying all of the lore such as the Talon Fae essence types are missing, there is literally a village in the game where the Talons go to revert and release their Fae Essence, Wind, Water Fire, etc. So, maybe he should play the full game before he makes false remarks.

I honestly don't care about the handholding. I don't need to waste hours searching out a person or place, I just want to play the game as I go and be engaged in the story and world. The activities you did in the original were just as boring. Fight the same Talons in their enemy encampments over and over again. The original wasn't without its flaws either as the combat was incredibly limited, slow and repetitive. The sequel is far more fun to play.

If taking the lore around the Yods and the Talan religion and temples and making copy paste versions of them that only serve as parkour minigames for the player to chase a light orbs around on a timer with a "Hold Y to Restart" prompt in the middle of the screen is your idea of something feeling immersive and authentic and not fake and artificial then we are living in completely different worlds. The whole game just feels like one big fake theme park for the player to do massive amounts of repeating activities in. I really get the same feeling of "fakeness" as I got from playing Elder Scrolls Online that does much of the same thing to the Elder Scrolls universe in terms of making the whole game universe feel fake and artificial. It was also striking to me how much O2 felt like a solo MMO at times in its structure and filler content. Maybe FF7 Rebirth is even worse, I have not played it. But replaying the original Outcast again it is even more striking how different it is when it comes to the general feel of the characters, lore and atmosphere than I first thought when I played O2 as I had not played it in a while. It honestly feels like a completely different universe where O2 has much more of an cartoon Avatar feeling than any of the often gloomy mystique in O1. It is also extremely clear that Breath of the Wild was a huge influence. That is not a bad thing in itself, but it does not help to make the game feel like the old Outcast.

Sure the original has its flaws also and it is a much older game so some things are rouge around the edges. But the general feel and thought behind everything in the game is lightyears ahead. Even the dialogue in O2 is inconsistent from the Talans and extremely sloppy in places and I have seen others point this out also in reviews. Or like someone in O2 could put it; "Dude, lets surf the metaverse my man" Yeah I really feel that authentic O1 feeling in this game *irony if someone did not catch that*.

[legaiaflame]

First of all the temples aren't copy and paste. Each has a unique platforming, hovering, and gliding challenge that is unique to the new gliding system itself. And the 4 larger ones are even bigger and more complex in their routes and challenges (with some making you climb up and go inside their many floors and even dive underwater) I have never seen this type of flying gameplay in a sci-fi open world game before. So right there I can say I don't agree.

The flying and gliding just by itself when you jump off from a high place and glide allllllllll the way down (most of the time when properly upgraded, allowing you to stay in the air indefinitely) is exhilarating! Especially once it's properly leveled up and you're using it as a means of travel. So, again the temples are unique to this game's new traversal system and are a nice side activity. Which make you use all of the skills you've learned, upgraded and unlocked to get a reward. Similar to earning a heart piece in Zelda. And you also keep bringing up the user interface being on the screen, I do admit this one instance of it being in the way and in the middle of the screen IS annoying. But, does that break the game for me. No.

As for the general feel of the characters, there were plenty of odd characters and conversations in the original game. This game retains the exact same atmosphere, dialogue and humor that made the original so endearing. And your "Dude" example is contained to like one character in the entire game. And that's the alchemist/potion maker guy in Desan called Draod. And he's literally getting high on all of his mixtures and potions. And it's also meant to be some much-needed humor for that depressing place where everyone is enslaved.

And it's undeniably apparent that the writers intent was to give each important character their own personalities. As all the Other Talons in the game have their own unique idiosyncrasies that make them feel like original characters and not just boring slabs of wood. Like the Shamaz in Prokriana for instance who can't stop Laughing because it's helping with his depression, since his house got blown up. Or, Dhoak in Emea who is treating the Giant Galenta creature like his baby, just to name a few examples.

I played the original just as much and I can say the atmosphere is intact. Same lore, same world and a faithful continuation of Slade Cutters story.

[outcast]

Originally posted by legaiaflame:

First of all the temples aren't copy and paste. Each has a unique platforming, hovering, and gliding challenge that is unique to the new gliding system itself. And the 4 larger ones are even bigger and more complex in their routes and challenges (with some making you climb up and go inside their many floors and even dive underwater) I have never seen this type of flying gameplay in a sci-fi open world game before. So right there I can say I don't agree.

The flying and gliding just by itself when you jump off from a high place and glide allllllllll the way down (most of the time when properly upgraded, allowing you to stay in the air indefinitely) is exhilarating! Especially once it's properly leveled up and you're using it as a means of travel. So, again the temples are unique to this game's new traversal system and are a nice side activity. Which make you use all of the skills you've learned, upgraded and unlocked to get a reward. Similar to earning a heart piece in Zelda. And you also keep bringing up the user interface being on the screen, I do admit this one instance of it being in the way and in the middle of the screen IS annoying. But, does that break the game for me. No.

As for the general feel of the characters, there were plenty of odd characters and conversations in the original game. This game retains the exact same atmosphere, dialogue and humor that made the original so endearing. And your "Dude" example is contained to like one character in the entire game. And that's the alchemist/potion maker guy in Desan called Draod. And he's literally getting high on all of his mixtures and potions. And it's also meant to be some much-needed humor for that depressing place where everyone is enslaved.

And it's undeniably apparent that the writers intent was to give each important character their own personalities. As all the Other Talons in the game have their own unique idiosyncrasies that make them feel like original characters and not just boring slabs of wood. Like the Shamaz in Prokriana for instance who can't stop Laughing because it's helping with his depression, since his house got blown up. Or, Dhoak in Emea who is treating the Giant Galenta creature like his baby, just to name a few examples.

I played the original just as much and I can say the atmosphere is intact. Same lore, same world and a faithful continuation of Slade Cutters story.

"Each has a unique platforming, hovering, and gliding challenge" - I see that it is completely pointless to get anything across without it just going over your head so I will not waste my time anymore. If you don't see the striking difference in how this game is built like an artificial theme park instead of trying to make a believable world you need to replay the original again. As for the Talans, Draod was just one example, the game is filled with inconsistencies when it comes to how the Talans express themselves and even uses phrases they normally would not understand like "busting my balls" or "taking a raincheck" etc etc. It is extremely sloppy in a lot of places. The criticism was not that it contains humorous dialogue as there is plenty of that in O1 also. Playing both games back to back the difference could not be more clear both in general design philosophy and atmosphere. It is truly like night and day.

[legaiaflame]

I get it, it feels like a fake, arcade-like, unrealistic, challenge run to you. Sorry, but it's a new gameplay system. And it's 10 times better than walking on foot in slow motion for the entire game, like the original. You have such a problem with the temple trials being "fake" or "artificial", and I say they aren't. You follow a Fae Essense orb, it's part of the lore and spirituality of the world. It IS authentic. The temples are a major part of their religion and what they use to recharge the Codex's each year so they can properly revert. Whether you think each temple looks similar fine (In a sense the gameplay loop can be copy and paste in its setup). But each region has different designs. You're just reaching. You don't like the gameplay loop fine, but to say it's not a part of the world or lore is wrong. You need something to do in the open world that's tied to the traversal/gliding mechanic and this is it. It doesn't need to be some realistic lore bending event. Some things just need to change to complement the gameplay.

And concerning the Talons, you're talking about like 3 or 4 characters in the entire game that broke the 4th wall. Out of how many? Come on now. I'm not so pedantic that a few lines here and there UTTERLY DESTROY the game world for me. Mostly every other Talon in the game sounded fine and like they were from an alien world/dimension. Same Adelpha speaking Talon's from the original. You still have them spouting all of their cultural phrases and lingo with dozens of translations on the side of the screen. Talking just like they did in the first game, minus a very small, handful of phrases. No one is straight up talking 100% in Earth lingo. Again, you're cherry picking very small examples.