Phalanx Reforms

[squidelica]

could anyone tell me if there are reforms for Phalanx units? thanks.

[Hannibal0216 도마도 재배자]

I went through the entire game as Macedonia and I don't recall seeing any reforms. I believe there are for other units though.

[欣怡 (Nathalie)]

There isn't I dont think, but I slowly replaced them with Legions and other units over time if I recal when I played Ptolemy.

[Zarkarion]

Historically, Pike Phalanxes did not go through any reforms. The Ptolemys and Seleucids started to convert some of their phalanx to imitation legionaries after encountering Rome. The Pontics completely switched from phalanx to imitation legions after the first Mithridatic War.

[CHOO CHOO]

Do we get imitation legions for phalanx-using nations, in the game?

[Zarkarion]

Originally posted by CHOO CHOO:

Do we get imitation legions for phalanx-using nations, in the game?

Hellenic upgraded Heavy Infantry map to Imitation Legionaries in exported battles. I am not sure how they appear in internal Empires battles.

[欣怡 (Nathalie)]

Originally posted by Zarkarion:

Originally posted by CHOO CHOO:

Do we get imitation legions for phalanx-using nations, in the game?

Hellenic upgraded Heavy Infantry map to Imitation Legionaries in exported battles. I am not sure how they appear in internal Empires battles.

I seem to remember they looked like legions, not sure though

[Groogo]

I played beginning to end with Macedonia and experienced no changes to Phalanx units. At some point most of my armies became centered around Hv. infantry formations with mercenaries to anchor the ends of the line.

[Zarkarion]

Originally posted by Groogo:

I played beginning to end with Macedonia and experienced no changes to Phalanx units. At some point most of my armies became centered around Hv. infantry formations with mercenaries to anchor the ends of the line.

The Phalanxes don't change. The Heavy Infantry do. Because I am only involved at the FOG2 end, I am not sure of the unit terminology shown in the Empires UI, but Phalanx and Heavy infantry are different units in the unit database. The basic Heavy Infantry translate to Citizen Hoplites in FOG2, and the upgraded Heavy Infantry translate to Imitation Legionaries. The Phalanx stay as Pike phalanxes.

We felt this was the best way to do it because none of the major Diadochi states made a wholesale change from pike phalanxes to legions. Only the Pontic kingdom did, and they weren't upgrading existing phalanx units, because those had been destroyed in the 1st Mithridatic War.

Therefore, if you want to make this transition you have to recruit upgraded Heavy Infantry, and then either disband your phalanx units or let them fade away by natural wastage.

[Groogo]

Originally posted by Zarkarion:

Originally posted by Groogo:

I played beginning to end with Macedonia and experienced no changes to Phalanx units. At some point most of my armies became centered around Hv. infantry formations with mercenaries to anchor the ends of the line.

The Phalanxes don't change. The Heavy Infantry do. Because I am only involved at the FOG2 end, I am not sure of the unit terminology shown in the Empires UI, but Phalanx and Heavy infantry are different units in the unit database. The basic Heavy Infantry translate to Citizen Hoplites in FOG2, and the upgraded Heavy Infantry translate to Imitation Legionaries. The Phalanx stay as Pike phalanxes.

We felt this was the best way to do it because none of the major Diadochi states made a wholesale change from pike phalanxes to legions. Only the Pontic kingdom did, and they weren't upgrading existing phalanx units, because those had been destroyed in the 1st Mithridatic War.

Therefore, if you want to make this transition you have to recruit upgraded Heavy Infantry, and then either disband your phalanx units or let them fade away by natural wastage.

Exactly. I concentrated on building and deploying Hv. Inf. units instead of Phalanx units as time went on. I also used Mercenary Inf. units on the outside of my main fighting line and in rougher terrain. I found some nice mountain capable units that could be recruited in central Turkey, they were also a nice addition as I phased out reliance on pike units.

[PocusFR]

In Empires:

Phalanxes don't upgrade, indeed.
Heavy Infantry can be upgraded to Heavy Infantry (Improved). Visually they look like Thorakitai (in Empires) but are de facto Imitation Legions in FOG II.

We are working in harmonizing better the two looks in both games, but because of some models availability in Empires, some models differ visually, so that the 20+ nations on the map look more diverse. That's not ideal, we know that.

[Zarkarion]

Originally posted by PocusFR:

In Empires:

Phalanxes don't upgrade, indeed.
Heavy Infantry can be upgraded to Heavy Infantry (Improved). Visually they look like Thorakitai (in Empires) but are de facto Imitation Legions in FOG II.

Interestingly the contemporary illustrations that are taken as being Imitation Legionaries, could equally well be Thorakitai. They just show men in mail shirts, helmets, oval shields and spear. They could in fact represent either.