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3D - Coat is fantastic for dealing with really big and I mean big models because it doesn't actually use polygons it uses voxels. One thing to note though is if you are going to be sculpting super detailed models in 3D - Coat I would suggest at least a minimum of 16GB of RAM. 3D - Coat is RAM heavy, more so than your other modelling applications.
A simple workflow from Blender to 3D - Coat would be to model your base mesh, no details, just the base mesh. Then bring it into 3D - Coat (don't worry about UV'ing at this point) and then sculpt your super details for your model. DO NOT make big changes to the model, by that I mean don't make any changes to the topology of the model. Just sculpt in surface mode rather than voxel mode for your super details.
Once you are done then you are ready to bake and guess what, you already have your low poly from Blender to bake your super details onto. The usual workflow would be to import your low poly model into the 'Retopo' room in 3D - Coat and then UV map the low poly. Once you have done your UV mapping you are ready to bake.
I am assuming that you want your model game ready?
If so then the above workflow is perfect but if you aren't worried about realtime rendering for games then go crazy with your model, you won't really need to bake anything, you can make your base mesh in Blender and import that in to 3D - Coat for voxel sculpting and then retopologize after your sculpting in the 'Retopo' room and UV unwrap from there. Then you are ready to paint/texture which can also be done in 3D - Coat through the 'Paint' room (4.5 has PBR now!)
In regards to UV'ing in Blender, I am no pro as Blender has a really strange method for unwrapping, you have to project from views or you can do primitive unwraps. The best way to unwrap in Blender though would be to mark seams on your model and unwrap bit by bit, 3D - Coat works the same way, along with all the other modelling apps out there. That's why its usually good practice to keep your models poly count as low as you can, this is why I suggested the above workflow of keeping a low poly and then just sculpting your high details and baking out maps for them (Normal Map, AO, Cavity, etc).
Anyway I hope that helps, any further questions you can add me on Steam or just reply back here.
Good luck!
Awesome, thanks for the help, owe ya one!
I've actually attempted the uv's in zbrush a bit but I'm not really getting the results I was hoping for and I've messed around before with 3d coats uv mapping system which I enjoy a heck of a lot better but have been struggling to import and export it from 3d coat to blender back and forth for models to integrate it into my workflow there somehow..
Nah, it's not really for a game that I know of yet.
I made it for someone that wanted me to rig it for posing then eventually do animations. They didn't tell me anything about making it for a game but I may as well go ahead and treat it that way for the time being just in case.
To get your model back into Blender you are best exporting out of 3D - Coat as a .OBJ keep that file format until you are ready to animate when you are ready to animate then you will have to save and export as .FBX.
Try not to texture the model whilst you have it as the .OBJ format because if you are going back and fourth with a textured model in .OBJ you may have issues, .OBJ only really supports simple textured models. So once you have completely textured your model save that as .FBX, but for going back and fourth during the modelling stage keep it .OBJ as Blender will be able to read the file better and 3D - Coat, Blenders .FBX plugin really sucks :(
One more thing, to help your sculpting in 3D - Coat try and tessallate your model as evenly as you can, by this I mean add as many edge loops as you can in Blender before exporting and keep the edge flow even. This will keep the surface of your model really smooth when you bring it into 3D - Coat and you will get a much better experience sculpting. Remember though keep the low poly, so save two versions a tessallated one and the original low poly as you will need that for when you bake your details onto it.
Okay, i'll give that a try for sure, thanks!
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Import-Export/3dcoat_applink
So I'm currently trying the out the uv mapping in 3d coat...its going a lot better than doing it in blender as its not as bad so far.
Theres is a tidbit of lag but only for a few seconds and not always so far.
I have the model currently on level 2 @112tris...i forget where 3d coat's polycount is at so i'll have to look at that again cus I dont remember..
Not saying its stuff you cant do in Blender, but its a lot less hassle in 3DC. I would actually go so far as to say that Blendy would have a hard time at higher resolutions and what have you though. This is all coming from a Blender user btw.
I use 3DC all the time with Blender, some cases doing a low poly block in Blender, then sculpting off it in 3DC, retopoing and painting in 3DC and bringing back to Blender for rigging/animation for instance.
Ah interesting. Thanks. I've noticed more recently that there are people that use blender to zbrush or blender to 3dc and back again it seems. I do agree that blender's sculpting tools aren't the greatest even though they work decently. Been fiddling around with finding a good workflow.
My workflow has changed dramatically, I mean in early days I would almost completely box model in Blender then use 3DC for nothing more than texture painting; and to begin with I would even just block in colours with 3DC.
As I continued I started to do more of my textures inside 3DC, it really helps when you dont have to alt tab between PS and Blendie, I know Blendie has paint facilities, but I know PS and the brushes etc...
These days I work like this... I do my concepting in sculpt, I dont even bother picking up apencil and paper, because I find it much easier to just bash together the shapes in 3DC. I mean the strength of 3DC is the voxels(Blender pushes polys not voxels, 3DC can play with millions of levels of detail past Blenders VERY respectable crash point), you can play with incredibly high detail. That said, you usually want to 'block in' your basic shapes at a lower resoultion, then move onto the higher resolution and detail (just like you would box modelling anyway).
One thing to note is that you can swtich between surface and voxel mode at any time, I prefer the surface mode tbh, and there are a custom set of tools out there that are really nice(I'll track them down and update you later).
For what I do, which is stuff for real-time meaning games, 3DC became invaluable. I can concept and refine a character/creature in half the time I do using box modelling workflows, because I can concentrate completely on the creative first and foremost, then about the edge flow and such during the retopo.
Worrying about edge flow and such during retopology is MUCH MUCH easier than box modelling. Because you have to worry about flow WHILE you are building through a traditional box modelling process which gets in the way.
Long story short, I would really suggest getting to grips with these tools if you are at all interested in 3D, and looking at the workflow of sculpt/retopo then pulling it into blender(though 3DC has UV tools, Blenders are just too strong). Sometimes you will want to block out in blender and import into 3DC, regardless sculpting is srsly gonna be a time saver.
People are always gonna be kinda vague in terms of 'what workflow should I use' because its something you kind of develop yourself over time, if you are into this kind of thing you will know by now there is no one set way of doing things, its a problem solving dilemma on every project, which is why you should love it. ;)
There are a tonne of tutes out there though, and once you have gotten comfortable with the tools, I would strongly suggest starting to sink your teeth into baking normals/vert paint/displacements/specs/gloss...etc through the paint system. Trust me friend, the rabbit hole is never ending.
Excellent post, your input is appreciated. I use Zbrush and now I'm learning Maya and 3D Coat, and even tough sculpting is my fav part, retopology was a nightmare! even with 3DCs amazing retopo tools (I actually got 3DC just for the retopo) So I figure it would be better to box model (like you did originally) and then sculpt.
The difference is, that in Zbrush I can load a low poly box model, then subdivide and sculpt on higher levels as much as I want. The way that you mention sculpting first would mean tons of Retopo with no base model to work off of. I'm not sure if this would be the best option for a noob, or if 3DC sculpting is much different from Zbrush, but I would like to know your opinion on this because Zbrush has amazing quick sculpt potential with Dynamesh as well. Zbrush can also bake a sculpt into a low polygon model (but I could never get this to work properly) as well as amazing Auto retopo tools...
So I just can't decide between Box > Sculpt or Sculpt > Retopo or maybe some combination of the two?
Also, if I may be so bold, what made you pick up Maya? Are you at a school or uni that uses it? Might be able to give you some feedback relating to this if I know what you want in the end goal/why you've chosen your tools.
Ok so I may have said some confusing stuff up there I now realise.. so you can def subdivide an imported mesh once in 3DC, in fact it will auto do this for you on import and going into sculpt mode. You can also increase and decrease this at any time during your sculpting. So you start at a low resolution, get major shapes in and increase for finer details.
For me, whether I box model first is really all down to what Im doing, 3DC actually has tools for boxing in, and you can throw primitives around etc... but its kinda clunky for my tastes. So basically if its something with a lot of legs or weird shapes coming out of it, I will box model the basic shapes in.
I DO NOT worry about edge flow or polys at this point. Just getting the base shapes, like a horse could essentially be made up of 7 cubes. :P
You can do stuff like box model, and give yourself enough polys to work with in 3DC and try and sculpt in detail, but I think its a bit hack and slash. Also: Dont try and bake in your sculpt program. I dont know how Zbrush handles it, but personally Ive always done this outside, using Xnormals. In 3DC Ive never gotten good results, which may be down to me, but running an FBX through Xnormal has gotten me really nice Normal/Spec/Textures etc every time.
Ok SO! Haha sorry none of this is definitive, its just theres no real answer. However in terms of retopo, and which way you should go...
I would say if you are new to the whole bag, box model. Box model and box model and box model some more. It can be frustrating, especially if you are great at sculpting, but if you want real time or usable stuff, animatable stuff you need to learn the basics.
I cant tell you the amount of times Ive seen third year students who dont understand the basics of edge flow, and a lot of the time its simply because they skipped the fundamentals. I mean things like how to effectively use tris, keep your counts low, keep your meshes even and clean, and just in general connect everything up.
This may mean going back to hardcore basics, my first ever model was a chair, then a desk, then a lamp and so on through stuff in my room. It sounds mundane, but each object will provide its own little challenge, 'how many polys do I use? How do I do sharp edges? How do I connect this thing to that thing and not have it look gimpy?'.
Before long, trust me, you will be smashing out edge loops round faces, and tackling the nightmare that is ears in no time.
That was my process to start with, in fact I was so used to box modelling I avoided sculpting. Then one day I did, went to retopo and was all nervous, and was really happy to realise it was second nature.
Atm Im in the process of setting up a blog and youtube account for me and my team, and will be posting stuff about my workflow, with pretty pics, references, and links to other cool peeps Ive learnt from. If youd like I can throw you some links when its up.
Also, I highly reccomend jumping on sites like Polycount, its a great resource for 3D peeps, with a lot of really helpful people and examples of work. Also also, Pinterest is your friend, if you dont have an account make one.
Ok Ima shut up before this post gets any longer. :P
LOL! Don't shut up I'm actually learning a lot :p
I'm a beginner at 3D, I started picking up Zbrush without knowing what I was getting into. Zbrush is the big boogie man for everyone and it was difficult, but since I never done anything else before, it became second nature.
As for what i want to do, that's a good question! I think I love sculpting more than anything, I want to become a great 3D artist one day, that's my goal. At first I tought sculpting was enough but then I noticed what a nightmare it was making simple polygonal shapes with Zbrush, so I started thinking about traditional box modeling but I decided to ignore it because it seemed to complicated.
After that I noticed that even if you make an amazing sculpture, it's just about useless for everything because of how big and dense it is, so then I looked into Retopology. That's how I came into 3D Coat (Not for sculpting or painting) and it wasn't hard to get into it. I had a problem tough, I didn't understand edge flows like you mentioned and I was just making a huge mess. I now understand the basics, make mainly Quads, maybe Tris on flat places and no nGons, but then I discovered it would take me HOURS to retopologize! It would take me longer than sculpting.
So that's how I came into Maya, first I tried Blender but I couldn't get into the interface, I don't know why but Maya seemed much user friendly to me. Also, I picked up Maya because it's the industry standard and Autodesk's flag ship (I know the story of 3DS Max) so I guess I just wanted to pick the software that seemed like the best.
Now I'm a newbie in Maya but I understand a little bit of everything. I can do simple box modeling, I can do UVs, and I can even do some rigging even tough it kicked my ass. I don't want to do any animation just character artist, but figured Rigging was important to know.
I guess what I want to do is make amazing models but I also want them to be functional, atleast be able to change the pose and maybe I could make a living of selling them to animators, but my problem is I want to do detailed sculptures too.
So I tought I could use Maya to make a good base model and then use Zbrush to make an amazing sculpture off of it. Then render the sculpture with Marmoset or Keyshot (Witch I don't know yet) and If I wanted to rig it for animation then I could bake the details as normal maps and compromise detail for clean topology. The base model would be like the middle point in the cross roads, then I could go either way. That was what I tought.
I don't know if this would work tough, I'm a newbie and I'm tackling all this on my own. Actually I feel like an ant climbing mount Everest and it's the first time I talk to someone that knows about this stuff, so it was nice talking to you! :)
You can see what I can do right now here:
https://www.facebook.com/RiosJuanMichael/photos_stream?tab=photos_stream
If possible I would like to follow your Youtube channel, or if you have Skype, that would be awesome :D
Ahkay, well I mean by the sounds of it you are just like I was first getting into it, I had no real ambitions just really loved 3D. I will tell you a bit about how I started.
I first got into 3D using Cinema4D, a great program but more aimed at CG and TV/movies style stuff. I modelled a lot of stuff, and subsurfed the hell out of everything, and all my stuff was millions of polys deep, and Im talking about stuff like chairs...
You arent wrong, it can feel like wading through molasses, there is so much information and different ways of doing things. It can be REALLY rough. However, trust me, over time you will pick things up and before long youll realise you just 'get it'.
To do this, you really need to stick to fundamentals. Im talking, how many vertices make up a quad? How does lighting work? Whats the diff between rendered and real time/what are the requirements? How do I unwrap/hide seams/texture stuff?
A lot of this may seem simple, but Ive met so many third year uni students who have no idea even how to texture.
So grats, you are already better than some graduates. :D
So somewhere along the way, I came across Blender. What drew me into Blender was the community, there is just an ocean of info out there. Over time also, Blender has just moved much faster than anything else out there, due to it being open source.
There are issues with Blender, Im not a fanboy, but it is a great all in one tool, with rendering on par with the best out there. Its unwrapping and animation tools are also just the bees knees.
HOWEVER, when I first moved into it, it was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nightmare. The hotkeys and stuff didnt make sense, I was so used to C4D, and I was kind of close to giving it up.
I am really glad I didnt.
That community has taught me everything I know, and its a warm friendly one. The installs for Blender, the fact you can pack materials and textures (making moving between home and studio so easy), the unwrapping tools, the fact all the commands are contextual (once you learn those hotkeys man they are applicable application wide, S scales polys, and keyframes, and UVs and everything...), its free so its user base is huge/great for indie devs/no pirating. In the end, I was able to just get ♥♥♥♥ done MUCH quicker than my peers.
One of my first ever assignments was to make a character orbit a sphere, simple I know, but whereas most of my peers had basic cubes in the shape of a car or plane running round an icosphere I had this: https://vimeo.com/79028298
Dun judge too harshly, that was my first semester, after five months of using Blender, and 6/7 months of using 3D.
All of that said, I wanna make this VERY clear, use whatever you feel best in. One thing I will say, is take that age old chestnut of 'industry standard' and throw it out the window. Its used by people who really dont 'get it', and the 'it' is that if you know good 3D workflows/habits etc... they can relate to any application.
I CAN use 3DS, I CAN use Maya, and I have helped people who use those programs before, because dude... an FBX is an OBJ is an STL. They are all just vertices hanging in space, and they all abide by the same rules.
What you model in, is personal preference, the only time it becomes an issue, is when you are rigging. If you are rigging for someone that wants to animate in Maya, you need to rig it in Maya, rigs do not transfer over. FBX's WILL hold edge info(sharps/UVs and such), materials and everything else though. There are plenty of people in the industry who model using Blender, or 3DS, or C4D, or hardcode the vertice positions in Notepad. :P
It does not matter. Anyone who says different, and I will be bold enough to say this, anyone who prances about declaring that one is superior to all others, hasnt got a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clue.
Ok so back to basics, its great youve shown interest in rigging, NO ONE likes rigging, and weight painting is the Devil; knowing it and how it works however will really make you a better modeller.
If you want to be a character artist, then you need to know this, because its one thing to make a really great looking character, but its another when its rigged and you realise the mesh is horrorshow and wont deform properly.
I would also say, even if you want to be a character artist, learn how to do environments too. Firstly, if you want to make a career out of it, 85% of the work is environment artists, and character artists usually cut their teeth and have to pay their dues doing environment stuff.
ALSO you learn the basics, and get to know your tools and how to push polys a lot better.
Along with this, you will encounter the following:
Efficiency, using less to get more. Unwrapping, how to make efficient well packed UVs (remember that multiple objects can draw from a single UV!). Alphas... oh alphas... for all that foliage and stuff.
Most important, you will learn how to texture... I cant stress this enough, do it yourself.
Anyone can google something, and anyone can use defaults in Substance to get something that looks half decent. You will learn a lot more, painting, and setting up all your stuff manually (Im even talking baking normals/spec maps et al here).
From what I can see on your profile you dig stylised stuff, good. Me too. :P
People usually do a lot of work on stylised stuff because of this really hands on approach, realism is cool, but there are just too many shortcuts. Once again, Ive met intermediate modellers, who get cool results, but use workarounds. They dont understand the process well enough, so whilst if I wanted, I could recreate what they do, they cant recreate what I do.
I can also see from your profile, that you are pretty ballin with sculpting, youve gotten some nice results there. So I will reinforce that you may get frustrating having to go back and relearn stuff, and do basic stuff that gets lesser results. Dont let this deter you.
Just keep making ♥♥♥♥, pump stuff out. Dont focus on one thing too long, espesh not at the start.
Bash something out, solve the riddle you need for that particular object, and MOVE ON. Dont primp and preen, dont polish, just keep upping your body of work. You will look back on stuff you made six months prior and say 'wtf was I thinking', and constantly get better... you will get better still if you just keep pumping stuff out.
Over time you will develop your own style, and there will come a point where you are confident enough that you want to put some serious time into something.
That point, should be when you can sit down and say: I will make this, this and this, and compile it into a scene; and it will take me X number of hours.
Otherwise you will just find yourself lost down rabbitholes. Give yourself that time in the beginning to just have fun and learn, and dont judge yourself harshly.
ANYWAY, I could literally just talk about this ♥♥♥♥ all day, and night. Its all I talk about all day every day anyway. Dont have much up online atm, but like I said previous post am in the midst of doing so. Add me on Steam man if you like, as we have very much hijacked this thread.