Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
11 
Report this post
I bought it in 2016 and paid to upgrade that then too afterwards, and now they want an absurd amount for 2021 too. This is not a yearly virus scanner rental...
Nope.
It just is not that good or comparable to what I already have.
Regardless, you all go ahead and enjoy paying for yours again and again and again over the years. Not me.
These barely new upgraded features will be a free addon for Blender within a month or two at best☺.
1. Full price for v2021 is just about $450 USD. Anyway you slice it, at only $120, you're saving nearly 73%. That's a sweetheart deal.
2. By your own admission, you own the Consumer/Basic licenses of v4. That's not the same thing as owning a Professional license. On Steam, Consumer/Basic is the Amateur version. It's 4x cheaper because it has a few feature restrictions and CANNOT be used for commercial use, unlike the Professional edition.
Based on the original 3DCoat Team announcement, ONLY individuals with Professional licenses bought after August 1, 2020 qualify for the free upgrade to v2021. You don't own a Professional license. You own the non-commercial Amateur one.
FWIW, I know for a fact that the Commercial/Basic license is the Amateur version. How? Because I literally picked up a copy for a non-work related machine here just last week. Consumer/Basic is the Amateur edition. (I also have 3DCoat Pro and ZBrush licenses on my main workstation, but those are for commercial use)
I get your anger. I really do. I've been using ZBrush for 19 years and have never had to pay for a single upgrade. So, while the upgrade from v4 Pro to v2021 only cost me $88 (pre-tax), it irks me a little because Pixologic has us so spoiled. However, Pilgway is not Pixologic and doesn't have nearly the same market share or cash flow.
I am not unsympathetic to your plight. I get it. It's definitely bad form on Pilgway's part, labeling the license as "consumer" instead of "non-commercial" or "indie". It's confusing and a bit misleading. However, you cannot reasonably expect to get a free upgrade to the $450 Professional license. It doesn't make sense. Pilgway loses out on the deal.
BEYOND THAT... If you REALLY took time to look at the v2021 upgrade then you'd realize that it's pretty substantial.
- A brand new full poly modelling toolset that includes parametric curves
- A much faster brush engine that handles higher poly counts (easily 3x-5x greater than Blender's practical max)
- New node-based shader editing
- Sculpt layers
- A cleaner UI
ETC
In Blender, there is ZERO chance that any of this stuff will be added before v3.1. Definitely not this year. Definitely NOT free either. I know. I own a few add-ons to that fill those feature gaps. They're paid options.
Despite being very robust, Blender is still weak in certain areas and might well be for some time to come. Blender Foundation knows this. They know that many of their users also own 3DCoat, which is why they bundle an updated 3DCoat Applink with each version.
1. Even with Pablo doing great work, unless he comes up with his own version of the Pixol, Blender sculpting won't be as fast as 3DCoat or ZBrush. It's mighty powerful and plenty fast on its own, but the $$$ options are more than a hair faster.
2. You can buy a Blender addon for sculpt layers, as the option doesn't exist natively, but it's wonky and easy to break.
3. You can buy addons that give you better 3D paint tools, but you take a risk. One option isn't updated as fast as Blender itself, usually being one or two versions behind. The other just got discontinued and went OSS, which is absolutely no guarantee of future updates/improvements. (ArmorPaint, Material Maker, and Mixer are all good free alternatives, but have their own downsides.)
4. You can buy curve modeling addons for Blender, but they're just fancy workarounds that don't always work as planned and aren't suited for large scale work.
ETC ETC and so on.
I don't mean to disrespect Blender in any way. I LOVE Blender. After nearly 2 decades of practically worshiping at the altars of MAXON and ADSK, I finally broke free from pay/subscription hell and officially moved to Blender, the superior option. While it IS superior to C4D and Maya in many ways, it's not a perfect app. There's still plenty of room for 3rd party dedicated tools like 3DCoat to exist.
Look. I get why you're p!$$ed off. I do. Given that you own the cheapo 3DCoat license, Pilgway is being super generous in offering you a v2021 license for barely 37% more than what a legacy v4 Pro user is paying. Again, that's a sweetheart deal. Doubly special since you're a Steam user and they've discontinued their relationship with Steam, afaik. (Steam's 30% cut is too much and probably destroyed their profit margin. Can you blame them?)
I also get why the idea of annual upgrades upsets you too. I do. However, it has been 8 years since v4 came out. That's 8 years of free updates. The gravy train has to stop at some point. Pilgway has to pay the bills. Development costs money.
Even if annual upgrade costs annoy you... Guess what? Nobody's forcing you to upgrade. A permanent license is exactly what it sounds like. It's permanent. Sure. You won't get any new fixes or feature updates if you don't buy the next upgrade. However, unlike ADSK or Adobe, not paying into the system doesn't cut you off at the knees. Unless something radical changes on your OS or drivers, what works today will work tomorrow. 3DC will still be yours.
TL;DR....
- You're not entitled to a free upgrade. You bought 3DC outside of the grace period and the offer only applies to Professional license users. You only own the far cheaper Consumer/Basic (ie. Amateur) non-commercial license.
- $120 is MUCH cheaper than the full $450 for v2021. Consider yourself lucky.
- You've been getting free updates since your initial 2016 purchase. It had to stop sometime.
- Blender's amazing, but it's not a cure all. It's a general purpose suite. 3DC is a specialty app. They can coexist.
- Look past your anger. v2021 is more than just a cosmetic update. Lots of new goodies there. More than worth the price.
K ☺
<<<<>>>>>
I wanted to thank you for your kind and very detailed response.
I have looked into this further and the best they will UPGRADE me for is 129 Euro which equals $141USD according to the online converter.
This is simply not worth it to me to be honest.
So, the fella above you trying to make me look ignorant and claiming it would only be about $90 was pretty much wrong as wrong can be..
Anywho, I do thank you for the well written response and especially the very respectful manor in which you addressed and tried to help me.
Thank you Robsanta74☺
The fault is really Pilgway's for its questionable choice in naming that Consumer/Basic license as "Amateur" instead of "Indie"; Most end users already understand what Indie means. It SHOULD still be clear enough, given that the Steam page had a separate option for purchasing the Professional version. However, I can see how it [Amateur] could be a terribly confusing choice of names given the license type [Consumer]. It's almost self-contradictory. One would (wrongly) assume that Consumer was the same thing as Professional. I see how that could happen.
As far as the $140 USD not being worth it to you, I guess that it all depends on how often you sculpt and where you stand on the issue of licensing/activation servers. Your mileage will vary.
Consider the situation of ZBrush and how it activates. Even if you choose to use ZB offline, you still have to go back to Pixologic to do the manual activation. Similarly, if you want to deactivate, you're still going to need some form of internet connection. That means, if Pixologic were to disappear from the face of the planet tomorrow, short of resorting to less than legal methods of activation, you'd be pretty well screwed and your $900 license would be damn near useless.
With 3DCoat, however, you could literally be in a creepy horror movie style cabin in the woods and still be able to activate. So long as you have your license file on hand, you're good. No internet connection required. Supposedly, the app checks to see that the license isn't being abused by running it on more than one system at a time. However, in practice, I've never seen it happen, nor have I been pestered to connect to the internet for a "license check" if my connection has been down for a prolonged period of time.
To me, that's a huge plus. (I've been on an anti-subscription and anti-online/activation kick lately.)
IMO, what value you place on 3DCoat all depends on how much you sculpt or do CG in general.
I've been doing CG for about 32 years now, since 1989. In that time, I've owned licenses to all manner of 3D and 2D software. All legit and paid for. Probably 40-60 different apps in that time. (You pick up a lot of skills and apps in 32 years.) I can tell you that, in the grand scheme of things, it could be WAY worse than $140. Imagine being asked to pay $1k+ per app every 18-24 months. Worse. Imagine using a "modest" 10 app pipeline and having to renew a pricey subscription every 12 months. It wears on you after a while even if you're a pro.
I will say this about 3DCoat. It certainly pays to know ZBrush if you want to be employable. However, when it comes to key brushes and IRL functional performance (ie poly counts), 3DCoat is a viable and credible alternative in a way that Blender isn't yet. 3DCoat may be poorly documented and have its own learning curve, but there's not much that you can't create in it that you would in ZBrush. It's a strong alternative.
That $140 they're asking of you isn't THAT bad. Doubly true when we know that the free upgrades of ZBrush will be ending sooner rather than later and the base price is already 2x as expensive. So, while knowing ZBrush is helpful, if you're an indie, freelancer, hobbyist, or are responsible for defining the pipeline, knowing and using 3DCoat is just as valid of an option and at a fraction of the cost. So, if you're serious about sculpting and/or use it to make money with, I can't see that $140 upgrade price is a deal breaker - assuming that you have it, which many hobbyists don't. Again, like I said, it could be much worse. (I recall being asked to pay $2k+ to upgrade from Cinema4D R11 to R12 back in the day.)
If however, you just dabble in CG sculpting, I can totally understand why you'd be reluctant and how the new functionality and improved performance might be secondary to you. In that case, consider Blender as a viable alternative.
HOWEVER, just be aware that while it is plenty powerful and has all of the necessary brushes, you DO hit a hard performance wall quickly. Using a basic mesh without dyntopo or modifiers, you can realistically sculpt ~20mil-25mil polys before your strokes lag. However, use dyntopo or multires and your sculpting limit shoots down to ~6mil-8mil before lag sets in. That's why you don't see many hi-def Blender sculpts. A few notable ones do exist, but the artists have done a lot in the way of blocking beforehand, remesh during, and retopo right before final detailing. Blender is a "plan and work smarter" deal while ZB and 3DC are bit more happy to let you go crazy and work without having a plan - if you're so inclined.
KINDA RELATED... I can see what might be behind your underlying reluctance. The idea that 3DCoat v2021 might lead to v2022, v2023, and so on can be a point of concern in this day and age. Being asked to upgrade every year isn't quite like a subscription, but it can put a burden on your wallet when you're on a strict budget.
However, let's be honest with ourselves. Do we REALLY think that Pilgway will stick to an annual upgrade cycle? I don't see it happening, tbh. I mean, it literally took Andrew & Co 8 years to move from the v4 series. I can see them going the 24 month cycle, but annual? Nah. I don't see it happening. Andrew would have to make each annual release full of new features worth the upgrade price. Currently, he probably spends 100x more effort fixing things and improving compatibility than he does adding new features, which is why v2021 isn't v4.98 or whatever. It stands out enough to be a full version because it puts more focus on new features and quality of life improvements.
Personally, I feel that the next version worthy of that full point release upgrade won't come until mid-2023 or early 2024. I could be wrong, but Andrew is probably going to spend a lot of time polishing v2021 before the feature frozen roadmap for the next full release enters the picture.
Pretty much not looking like they care about me or a sale even after all of the hoops I have jumped through. And I have wasted a great deal of time on this, which has left me more than frustrated with them. Many hours now, of trying to learn all of this and figure which is what etc.. and signing up at both places before they fixed their internal issues over these things... And still today without response to any letters to them; well frankly I don't see the effort being rewarded.
Anyway, thank you.
But from what I read you didn't have the pro version. So it looks like you have to pay more.
Going off memory here and making a rough estimate, so it might be slightly off but...
Pro v4: $349
Pro v4 to 2021: $88
= $437
Indie v4: $99
Upgrade to 2021: $120 (based on your numbers)
= $219
Who do you think had to pay more in the end? When you look at it that way, perhaps there is not much to get angry about.
For what its worth, Pilgway is offering a rent to buy plan as well so you don't have to pay it all at once, and if you choose to skip a version you won't have to pay more just to get it caught up to whatever current version it is on.
You also have the option to move over to Textura which is cheaper, assuming you only want to use 3D Coat for the texturing.
Same from MagicaCSG
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2566235452
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2566235198
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2566234750
Same from Aartform Curvy GO
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2296002635
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2338493562
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2307587413
and etc
You are comparing amateur/hobbyist programs with a professional quality program. The results speak for themselves.