The best weapons for Wing Diver in online play.

[Honorable_D]

- Short Range - Wing Divers best weapons, easily. Wing Diver is an agile assassin that can dodge even in the air, and the super powerful 1-shot short range weapons play to her strengths perfectly. There are three different weapon series under this category that are so good that they deserve their own paragraph:

Phalanxes do insane damage, and will shred ANYTHING up close. Use them to point-blank destroy teleportation ships and anchors in just a few seconds. They also stunklock and shred frogbois and greys in a blink of the eye. The strongest weapon in the game is the Phalanx ZAT that does over 100,000 damage PER SECOND. Rapiers are pathetic compared to Phalanxes.

Power Lances/Double Lance/ Triple Lance series of weapons also do great damage and cost so little energy that they may as well be free. You can easily keep mobile and 1-shot most enemies while not worrying much about energy. Also great for popping drones.

Dragoon Lance's longer range makes them a bit safer to use + they do insane burst damage. Pop all the frog heads or 1 shot to remove the armor and then a second shot to kill a grey. They also penetrate.

- Kinetic - uhhh, no. Magblasters are garbo. Maybe, MAYBE the Magblaster "D" series do enough damage to bring for kicks and giggles but otherwise avoid these. They suck—the damage loss at half charge remaining is just retarded.

- Energy Weapons - not near as good as they were in EDF 4.1. They Lightning Bows also suffer from degraded performance at lower charges. Still, they aren't as bad as Magblasters as they can damage multiple enemies at once. The Thunder Crossbows are an okay-ish longer range option if you're bored and wanna try something new.

- Pulse Weapons - the Stardust Cannons have their uses, basically energy shotguns. If all pellets hit they do really solid damage and they also have viable anti-air capability thanks to no damage drop-off at long range and sheer number of pellets. The Pulse Machine Guns are straight up TRASH TIER, for real, they are hilariously bad. Want to knock ants up into the air every which way and not actually kill anything? Bring a pulse machine gun.

- Long Range - your snipers. Most cost too much energy and do too little damage. Shooting drones out of the sky or popping bees maybe? For those couple of missions with nothing but Deroys, bringing a Big Bang Core and a Raijin can be good for some laughs.

- Ranged Weapons - why not call them Plasma Weapons? Anyway, two that really jump out are the low level Plasma Heavy Cannon and the mid level Plasma Great Cannon. Both of these weapons do crazy high single shot damage that is useful well beyond the weapon level you get them at. Plasma Great Cannon truly is great, and paired with a Big Bang Core the Wing Diver turns into a long range super artillery that can put the Air Raider to shame in some scenarios. All of the other weapon types are pretty meh.

- Homing Weapons - Not great. Geists kill you and your teammates as much as they do enemies, Psi Blades would be good if they didn't cost so much energy and the Mirages do pathetic damage. Now, the high level Mirages that attack like 15 enemies at once do have a purpose in stunlocking swarms of bees and knocking tadpoles out of the air but they still take ages to actually kill anything.

- Special - The only commonly used one here are the Gleipnirs whose homing attacks are basically like a Mirage that you fire and forget. Poor damage unless hitting only a handful of enemies but they can still stunlock large numbers of bees. Good anti air and pair with a core with very fast weapon recharge and bring TWO Gleipnirs and you'll be able to have 3-4 of them out at once putting on a real light show for the memes. The rest of the weapon types here are pretty lolbad except in rare niche scenarios.

Don't play Wing Diver as a back row floozie sitting up on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ skyscraper, get up close and 1-shot everything while using your speed and dodges to avoid projectiles. You'll almost always want to bring one of the three Short Range weapons and fill the other slot with something to deal with the rare few things that a Phalanx or Lance can't.

[Plumber]

have you played around with Heaven's Gate 10 and D10 much

[Honorable_D]

Originally posted by Plumber:

have you played around with Heaven's Gate 10 and D10 much

A bit yeah. Creating death walls for low health bug enemies to run into was a neat novelty on some missions. Dropping them on anchors works. Getting some frogs and greys to chase you while you run and hide on top of a building and drop one over their heads can work.

But this isn't about what CAN work sometimes, it's about what works best over the course of all 100+ missions. They fall into the same pot that most of the oddball weapons do: only useful in a handful of scenarios that require map knowledge or extra setup to get working—there are other, better weapons that can still easily get you through a mission without requiring anything special.

[ValerianN]

I sometimes bring a Mag Blaster just for backup. It only needs to last long enough for the core to recharge.

I've never been able to used Lightning Bows with any effectiveness; if I wanted a medium range weapon, I would bring a Dragon Lance, and the top lightning bows are bugged. I do use the Thunder Crossbows on Inferno, and the DLC Thunder Crossbow is maybe the most versatile WD weapon.

Pulse machine guns have niche uses for suppressing spawns and tunnels, though I usually stick with the Thunder Crossbow for that purpose.

I use the Monster on a regular basis. It reliably shoots a type 2 drone out of the sky, has better range and accuracy than Raijin, and doesn't have the risk of blowing up.

Heaven's Gate from the top of a building is a regular farm tactic on alien-only missions.

There's a lot more mixing and matching with the Wing Diver, compared to the Ranger where there are two or three optimal loadouts across almost every mission.

[Honorable_D]

I do agree that Wing Diver has a larger array of worthwhile weapons, yeah. She has some very powerful specific combos that some classes can't really match too like the Big Bang Core + Plasma Great Cannon combo.

When it comes to being the best overall class for the entire 100+ missions, she and Fencer can be argued for. Especially if DLC weapons are allowed (Phalanx ZAT...).

[Plumber]

I brought it up specifically because I disagree with your philosophy of “if you can’t use it in most missions, it’s not worth mentioning.” In WD’s case it’s a moot point since Dragoon Lance covers almost everything and you are FREE to take a weirder second weapon, echoing a response I made to another of your threads. The purpose of these threads - and of guides - should not purely be to inform people of what they would easily understand or agree with, but also what they would be lax to try or unlikely to discover on their own.

Gate is the single best weapon in the entire game against bees in particular. Nothing even comes close, not even AR’s KM6. In fact, it’s effectively a guaranteed clear on several rough maps, like 78 Doomed Queens and 108 Despair. You fly up and take the helm, fan it out, and watch as your laser cheese grater minces them all with far more efficiency in terms of damage and energy cost than Gleipnir while also shredding anything collecting below you as well. Something squeak by? Fly back through, or lazily pick it off with your Lance of choice.

Diffusers are much higher cost but also worth bringing to maps with spiders instead of Gate because their wider coverage suits spiders’ behavior of being able to jump right through the lasers and only getting trapped en masse if you’re clever enough to bait them onto a building.

Ghost Chaser is also worth discussing. The first one you get is valuable even into Inferno. Because of its cheap cost and mild launch, it’s guaranteed to lock down entire groups of enemies, or in the case of fliers or spiders, launch them on demand if held instead of tapped. This makes it preferential choice against Mirage which can only stagger by the usual damage threshold rules, but can actually kill things.

Special mention to Plasma Big which is unusually strong for the category and dominates Hard difficulty. Heavy and Great are so absurdly good at what they do, especially the latter, that they see use well into Inferno DLC. Very safe way to mop up clumped Armored Colonists or gold ants. (Or pretty much anything.)

You do not want to use Plasma Heavy/Great or Raijin with Big Core. Use a regular core and fly to a good position to overheat repeatedly to charge them, then carry it into the air while collecting enemies below you or for a better vantage against groups of dangerous enemies, like the red shotgun Colonists. By using Big Core, you waive all opportunity to set up and stay useful with your second weapon - and WD can be useful with literally no weapons whatsoever as a decoy.

Big Core is best suited for cases where you know the AR will babysit you and will lend you his vehicles. The reason for this is your energy continues to recharge while in a vehicle, and if using an automatic reload weapon, if you are NOT holding it when piloting the vehicle, it’ll charge as well. In other words, you can maintain 100% Gleipnir uptime while still taking potshots with your other weapon, courtesy of hiding in a spare Nix when necessary for movement or their usual offensive benefits. This is good common knowledge, but it opens a lot of doors for Big Core shenanigans specifically. 1 AR and 3 WD with a Proteus can be silly.

Blink Balls are lackluster by design because they are 100% free to use, and with enough luck with weapon ranks, serviceable for ground fodder and Colonists with good movement discipline. However, since they can be used while overheating, intentionally taking the weakest version or the deliberately designed Blink Fork gives you a way to make your overheat almost completely safe without needing any forethought whatsoever. Because staying alive is usually better than dying with a last gasp unless you’re AR or a Ranger who strapped c4 onto his bike, they beat out Rapiers handily.

Bolt Shooters, which can also be used during overheat, are strongly outclassed by plasma. However, Bolt Shooter D and ESPECIALLY the dlc weapon Raijin Limit are unusually powerful and WD’s only real way to snipe without resorting to yet more plasma cannon spam. They can be used as legitimate defense when out of energy, and Raijin Limit in particular can be paired with Mighty Core for near perfect uptime by intentionally overheating once charged.

Speaking of cores, they’re extremely important for a variety of fundamental reasons involving mobility and efficient flight, but the as-of-yet unmentioned standouts are Reverse Core early on for having fantastic overheat charge; Bird/Skyhigh for being capable of indefinite flight and height gain; and Turbo/Jet for a sacrifice of airtime for horizontal speed and survival.

[Honorable_D]

Odd that in over 500 hours of playtime, almost all of which is online, I have never seen a single Wing Diver use a Gate let alone specifically for bees. Looks like I need to try it though from how you described it.

You've never used a Plasma Great Cannon + Big Bang Core against the Deroy only missions or missions with nothing but frogs/greys? It annihilates and you don't need high mobility when nothing can get close as it gets 1 or 2 shotted. Big Bang Core has massive energy reserves and you can get bunches of fully charged shots off before the need to force a recharge. I wouldn't use that combo against maps with any fliers or lots of bugs.

Raijin Limit is pretty good, yeah, but being a very high end DLC-only weapon doesn't give many chances for use unless you play Limits Off.

I think someone used a Skyhigh Core + one of the Plasmafalls to stay in the air forever raining down shots. Was interesting but I haven't tried it myself and I can't remember which Plasmafall.

Ghost Chaser...just seemed way too energy heavy for what it does. + you need to spend even more energy to gain a bit of altitude to make it safe to use. Mirage can be fired forever and zero risk to teammates and yourself.

[Plumber]

Because Gate is an unusual weapon with an unclear purpose unless you’re already acclimated to kiting.

If it’s a deroy only map I’m not going to use Big Core because I’d like to fly up and swat them with a Lance instead, but Plasma Great is still useful for clumped deroys or at extreme distances. More importantly, it makes mopping up boxes much easier, and also leaves running away as an option if something goes catastrophically badly.

Being able to aim at the ground between frogs, reposition if they split up or use cover, and simply be patient and hover while they group below you supersedes the spam potential of Big Core without the crippling weight problems. 28 Iron Wall is a good example, where it’s better to have a positional advantage than a quantitative one due to the abundance of buildings and where the ships drop them.

Don’t hold down Ghost Chaser unless you’re specifically trying to fling spiders/fliers away. Just tap it once every second.

[gamadaya]

"Odd that in over 500 hours of playtime, almost all of which is online, I have never seen a single Wing Diver use a Gate let alone specifically for bees. Looks like I need to try it though from how you described it.."

Because it isn't that good. Plumber probably plays more single player, where it's DPS deficiency isn't as much of a problem, especially with reds. But even on single player, to say that it's straight up better than KM6 (which I wouldn't say is the best overall AR beekeeper weapon) is ludicrous. As is saying big core is a weapon best used when you can be babysat. I've solo onlined 88, the most bee heavy level in the game, with big bang core and glepnir (+ stardust, which on average is also a better anti bee weapon than gate). Good luck with gate on that one. Heaven's gate is a good, situational weapon in SP that falls off a decent bit in MP, but doesn't deserve to be on any best list (the concept of which seems to be completely un-graspable by a couple people) beyond maybe a quick mention.

Also, you should probably specify that these are for online only. I could tell from your first post that you were most likely an online only player. But the online and offline metas are pretty different. That's why you (justifiably) don't talk much about AOE weapons with low overall damage, whereas Plumber wants to include plasma big cannons, which are absolute ass online with the possible exception of the M2 until about mid-way through the game.

[Plumber]

I play almost exclusively multiplayer but have soloed most online missions. #88 is a unique case where you have a small army of NPCs to protect, so Gleipnir + Big ends up being a simple and easy solution.

Gate is as good as your movement. Stardust and combat bombers will be better if you can’t control the enemy whatsoever. It’s either a trash weapon or a fantastic weapon based on your ability, and has clear strengths over Gleipnir for its economy and power… unless you got a terrible weapon star roll or you’re using the first Gate way out of its level range. For reference, Gate 10 at max power can destroy a Hard #108 Despair super anchor from 100 to 0 on its own. Both it and D10 should be cutting through reds like butter on any difficulty.

Also, Plasma Big is good in Online as well, what are you talking about? It’s one of the best explosive options in an early game with a drought of them, and does well against all the ants, spiders, and colonists that take up the first 34 missions. I think you’re correct to worry we have a contrast in perspective here.

[gamadaya]

Upload some videos then. I'm straight up calling you out I guess. I'm just saying, I've done a lot of online solo, seen a lot of online solo, and I rarely see people bringing gates, and when they do it's for cheese strats against cosmos. If you show me yourself soloing despair with a setup that includes a gate (which shouldn't be able to 1 shot a 4 player anchor, as they have over 700k health, and the gate does under 650k maxed), I will be legit impressed. That wouldn't mean the gate is the best option for that in an actual multiplayer game where you have an AR, but it would be really impressive. But movement with WD isn't hard, and since you keep referring to Gleipnir as if it's purpose is damage, which any good player knows isn't the case, and since you said that the big bang straight up isn't a good option with Raijin, when it literally makes any amount of deroys a 100-0 matchup, I'm inclined to say you may have more knowledge gaps that you think.

Also, plasma big M2 is OK. You didn't say M2 though, you referred to the class, and you said it "dominates hard." different from what you're saying now.

[Plumber]

Everyone always has something to learn. Even people like us who have 1000 hours.

WD movement isn’t hard once you’ve learned it, but Gate is directly proportionally useful to how effectively you control the map though movement, so I had to mention it.

I don’t bring up Gleipnir’s damage because it’s used for damage, I bring it up because it isn’t - an argument for Gate in the situations it excels. Gleipnir ISN’T a weapon you can use on its own except against fodder. Gate is.

I will use Gate whether Hard, Hardest, or Inferno on 108 even with an AR. It’s good for the bees, the anchors, puts health drops in predictable locations thanks to all the irrelevant pillbugs that get caught in it too… but on Inferno specifically, it’s a safe way to deal with the golds if the rightmost anchor was left up. I like to weaken the leftmost anchor, destroy the center, then collect the revenge waves starting with the ants and doubling back to the spiders. If playing completely alone, I’ll weaken the left and right anchors, destroy the center and left, then finish with the right. Furthermore, if you track your damage carefully, you can destroy two anchors simultaneously - not that it really matters as solo WD, but it’s fun.

Big+Raijin is a 100-0 matchup against deroys and does a great job against them, but usually ends up overkill. What you need is the Raijin, not the Big Core. I do think this is a case where solo vs multi is an important difference.

“Dominates Hard” was meant to say “great through the literal Hard difficulty”, not “whoa dude this weapon is busted good it dominates hard” description. I will still use it for fun in later missions until it gets too outscaled. And yes, anything named “Plasma Big” is good at worst unless ranks have swindled you. They did for me actually; original, first blind pass through Hard I didn’t think much of them at all because I rolled zeroes.

[Authentic Mikutard]

Holy molly. I thought it was mild symptons but it's a noob fever plague, you really are going to trash all classes. Good job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoJuhKUoLaQ&t=1107s

rapier followed by phallanx

and context matters it's why weapons are tuned very differently depending on what they do and how easy they are to use, up time, etc

Originally posted by gamadaya:

"Odd that in over 500 hours of playtime, almost all of which is online, I have never seen a single Wing Diver use a Gate let alone specifically for bees. Looks like I need to try it though from how you described it.."

See, same way creativity is contagious so is prejudice. I hosted most of my online play and despite so, had people contribute with new ideas. Limits on and cycling dificulty via randomization helped see many unexpected weapon uses. Sure, I experimented the most but it still happened and I'm SURE I missed many things because situational awareness is not omniscient, no matter how good you are. Best we can hope is to always check others' setups before games start to raise the questions "what is this person going to do with that setup? hmmm"

Or go ahead OP, keep broadcasting this "reality show" about dunning kruger effect. Think me and others with clearly more experience than you the fools. But also know for sure, that you are doing a disservice to the game's reputation, new players and yourself when you showboat how much you know about the game, when in reality, you know so little and that much you have made clear.

It's not your knowledge that is absurd, it's the disconect between the perception of what you know and what you really do know. It clouds your vision and instead of opening your mind and milking the game for some more fun, you spread your reductionist vision.

[gamadaya]

OK, that's fair, and impressive considering I've died plenty of times just climbing the anchors. That said, it seems like gate is much more useful there as an anchor destroyer though, which I've never disputed, that happens to work pretty well for bees. Thing is, you say that 88 is kind of a unique scenario, but it's not. Or at least it doesn't matter that it's unique. Go to 35, and try pulling as many bees as you can with a gate and any other weapon you want. Then try doing the same with Big Bang and the level 43 gleipnir and 59 stardust, both of which are well below level limit. Even being very reckless, you can no-hit that level pretty easily and very quickly, and it's not an NPC heavy level.

As for the M2, if it was "great through the literal hard difficulty", I might agree, but it isn't, at least not on MP, which is what OP plays (and why these threads should have a disclaimer). A weapon that doesn't one shot even basic ants and spiders while also having bad DPS isn't that good of a weapon. Nothing is more annoying than lining up a piercing shot on a group of ants, then having some plasma cannon/light mortar/rocket launcher guy just throw them all over the place without killing anything. It's good early on in MP because it one shots groups, but it's never a lifesaver, and AOE damage is something that matters a lot less in MP as a general concept for WD, at least until you get to cosmos and can start knocking out entire groups with the biggest cannons.

[Plumber]

"It doesn't matter that it's unique" is a pretty solid rebuttal for bee-only missions actually, not going to argue about 35 either. Mostly what I am saying is that it isn't JUST useful for bees or anchors even though it suits them pretty handily. It's really strong on maps with mixed enemies, or if you can get the drop on giants like in 76 Doomed Queens, takes them out of the picture all by yourself in the process. (In 76's case I wouldn't use Gate solo because of the other giant bees' propensity to fly too high after they've been aggroed.)

To clear up what points I am making and you are challenging - you get Big M2 as early as level 10, so the first Big being weak lasts for no time at all, and assume all of my discussion thus far has been on the assumption that you'll use the better version of a weapon as soon as you can.

AoE that spreads enemies needlessly is not a case for the weapon being bad, but it being misused. It takes discipline to avoid flinging things across the map for no reason, but cheap, consistent, and safe damage to crowds below you or tailing you in the air is very nice for WD's gameplan, especially when everything is slow and harmless like in Hard. Yes, Heavy eclipses Big (M2) in various cases, but remains useful when 611 damage is still enough. For example, it's enough to oneshot the normal/small tadpoles with online scaling in 84 Incoming Larvae or 102 Tornado. You can completely trivialize Hard tadpoles by flying in a circle to collect them and then wiping them. Higher difficulties require tighter flying and Plasma Great or great timing with Dragoon but it's the same story. Otherwise, M2 remains good for colonists, spiders, drones, grey ants, and unless you're being extremely careless with your positioning relative to the team, red ants.

[ValerianN]

Plasma cannons are certainly viable at Hard and below; in fact they are necessary because the WD doesn't have any other adequate long-ranged weapons.