Jesus Chirst, ENOUGH WITH THE CONSTANT SPAWNS

[StephanFS]

You can't do anything in this game without ten or more enemies spawning in the same room. Did you collect an item? Enemy spawn. Activated a switch? Enemy spawn. Collected a key? Enemy spawn. I'm already on the third hub world and this became the most insufferable thing in the entire game. I know this is common in every old school FPS game, but here it's painful to fight every enemy every single time, and it's usually the worst ones like the Executioners, the Heretics and the fire guys.

[Bankai9212]

Its not that major usually depends on the level. If anything the over use of wrenches is way more annoying.

[Joe <3 coffee]

Kinda typical for these kind of games. Also just putting the enemies down and not making them spawn in waves would be much worse.

[StephanFS]

Originally posted by Joe <3 coffee:

Kinda typical for these kind of games. Also just putting the enemies down and not making them spawn in waves would be much worse.

Man, I played so many FPS games since the 90s, but this game feels like a fanmade Doom mod trying to be Serious Sam on Serious difficulty with the constant spawns and without the massive barren field to compensate for every fight. When it gets annoying, it gets annoying.

[sandwichfren]

You can change the difficulty to easy and I think you can put on god mode if it's too hard. I think there's an option for auto-aim if that's hard, too. There's definitely not a lot of wide open arenas, you might need to use corners or hop over obstacles and dodge enemy fire at the same time.

[Kain]

I think the problem is the length of the levels and the limited number of enemies, plus how rare it is they are used in an interesting manner.

[sandwichfren]

Originally posted by Kain:

I think the problem is the length of the levels and the limited number of enemies, plus how rare it is they are used in an interesting manner.

Yeah, I understand some people like big open fields/arenas and circle strafing around a crowd of enemies as opposed to enemies being placed around obstacles or at different elevations while navigating varying terrain. Maybe a button to push during the fight to watch a combo animation so that they don't run out of ammo, either.

[Kain]

Originally posted by sandwichfren:

Originally posted by Kain:

I think the problem is the length of the levels and the limited number of enemies, plus how rare it is they are used in an interesting manner.

Yeah, I understand some people like big open fields/arenas and circle strafing around a crowd of enemies as opposed to enemies being placed around obstacles or at different elevations while navigating varying terrain. Maybe a button to push during the fight to watch a combo animation so that they don't run out of ammo, either.

What the hell are you talking about

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by sandwichfren:

Yeah, I understand some people like big open fields/arenas and circle strafing around a crowd of enemies as opposed to enemies being placed around obstacles or at different elevations while navigating varying terrain. Maybe a button to push during the fight to watch a combo animation so that they don't run out of ammo, either.

What the hell are you talking about

Not worth responding too, anything that isn't praising the game gets some sort of response like this. I do agree with you the map size with limited enemy roster limits what they can do for most encounters.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by Kain:

What the hell are you talking about

Not worth responding too, anything that isn't praising the game gets some sort of response like this. I do agree with you the map size with limited enemy roster limits what they can do for most encounters.

Yeah, I like the game overall, but it gets tiresome after long sessions. I mentioned somewhere else, that individually I like all the maps, but I think the campaign should have had smaller maps between the bigger ones for better pacing.

That been said, I would be willing to try an expansion if the devs are actively listen to feedback.

[sandwichfren]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Not worth responding too, anything that isn't praising the game gets some sort of response like this. I do agree with you the map size with limited enemy roster limits what they can do for most encounters.

Yeah, I like the game overall, but it gets tiresome after long sessions. I mentioned somewhere else, that individually I like all the maps, but I think the campaign should have had smaller maps between the bigger ones for better pacing.

That been said, I would be willing to try an expansion if the devs are actively listen to feedback.

I know some Quake modders are looking at the source to see how mapping is done and if it's workable they plan on releasing maps/mods. So hopefully that's something to look forward to.

As far as the "limited roster" complaint goes, I don't get it. Quake was basically nothing but ogres who spammed grenades, vores, wraiths, the two knight variants and two baseguy grunt variants and we've had over 25 years of amazing content. The best stuff being maps and mods exactly like the ones in this game.

Don't get me wrong, I like a quick map, too. I'm constantly downloading the latest map jams from slipseer and running through them. But Wrath is more related to an AD or Alkaline type total conversion than whatever that guy is saying it feels like Serious Sam, lol. There were no short maps in those mods, they all have hundreds of enemies and the maps are all mazes.

I think it's clear some folks (not saying you) didn't know what they were getting in to when they got into this. They were hoping for Turbo Overkill or Ion Fury. Quick, 10 minute maps that are basically one locked arena after the other. Someone even asked why there's no looping heavy metal music, lol. I like those games a lot, too. But it wasn't trying to be that. And hopefully never does.

[sandwichfren]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by sandwichfren:

Yeah, I understand some people like big open fields/arenas and circle strafing around a crowd of enemies as opposed to enemies being placed around obstacles or at different elevations while navigating varying terrain. Maybe a button to push during the fight to watch a combo animation so that they don't run out of ammo, either.

What the hell are you talking about

I replied to your comment about maps and enemy placement.

[Kain]

Originally posted by sandwichfren:

Originally posted by Kain:

Yeah, I like the game overall, but it gets tiresome after long sessions. I mentioned somewhere else, that individually I like all the maps, but I think the campaign should have had smaller maps between the bigger ones for better pacing.

That been said, I would be willing to try an expansion if the devs are actively listen to feedback.

I know some Quake modders are looking at the source to see how mapping is done and if it's workable they plan on releasing maps/mods. So hopefully that's something to look forward to.

As far as the "limited roster" complaint goes, I don't get it. Quake was basically nothing but ogres who spammed grenades, vores, wraiths, the two knight variants and two baseguy grunt variants and we've had over 25 years of amazing content. The best stuff being maps and mods exactly like the ones in this game.

Don't get me wrong, I like a quick map, too. I'm constantly downloading the latest map jams from slipseer and running through them. But Wrath is more related to an AD or Alkaline type total conversion than whatever that guy is saying it feels like Serious Sam, lol. There were no short maps in those mods, they all have hundreds of enemies and the maps are all mazes.

I think it's clear some folks (not saying you) didn't know what they were getting in to when they got into this. They were hoping for Turbo Overkill or Ion Fury. Quick, 10 minute maps that are basically one locked arena after the other. Someone even asked why there's no looping heavy metal music, lol. I like those games a lot, too. But it wasn't trying to be that. And hopefully never does.

Yeah, I totally get the AD vibe and in that regard I think that mod also had some gigantic maps. For me in that game it didn't bother me much because each map was a surprise. It had that anthological vibe, where each place was mostly its own things unless the mapper decide to link some in some sort of narrative. But I also thought it did a good job with enemy variety, even though some are reskins or lifted from other games.

I also acknowledge your point regarding Quake recycling enemies, still the maps were way shorter and I thought it allowed the mappers to be more thoughtful with how enemies were placed. Similar to Doom which had a limited roster but each enemy behaved in a way that complemented each other's flaws and could have some interesting combos.

Due to the length of the levels in Wrath, long play sessions can be very tiring after a while and since the maps are so big and repeat the enemies so much, the encounters stop feeling unique or interesting. When almost every encounter has you dodging and using cover and utilizing the different levels of geometry, and they happen non stop, there is only so much you can do as mapper to make them unique. Again on Quake's limited roster, it's also a much older game so, I think it's only fair to expect better from newer releases, specially since they went the route of making each level so big, a move that would undoubtedly highlight any flaw related to lack of enemy variety. Really if I never see those enemies that fire blue projectiles from their mouth or Heretics, I will be too soon.

Regarding the soundtrack, I also agree with what people say, but in this regard I believe that it's probably an engine limitation, I don't think it allows for dynamic tracks wether the player is exploring or fighting, so it is what it is.

I really like the game, though, but I think it does have some pacing issues.

[sandwichfren]

Originally posted by Kain:

Yeah, I totally get the AD vibe and in that regard I think that mod also had some gigantic maps. For me in that game it didn't bother me much because each map was a surprise. It had that anthological vibe, where each place was mostly its own things unless the mapper decide to link some in some sort of narrative. But I also thought it did a good job with enemy variety, even though some are reskins or lifted from other games.

I also acknowledge your point regarding Quake recycling enemies, still the maps were way shorter and I thought it allowed the mappers to be more thoughtful with how enemies were placed. Similar to Doom which had a limited roster but each enemy behaved in a way that complemented each other's flaws and could have some interesting combos.

Due to the length of the levels in Wrath, long play sessions can be very tiring after a while and since the maps are so big and repeat the enemies so much, the encounters stop feeling unique or interesting. When almost every encounter has you dodging and using cover and utilizing the different levels of geometry, and they happen non stop, there is only so much you can do as mapper to make them unique. Again on Quake's limited roster, it's also a much older game so, I think it's only fair to expect better from newer releases, specially since they went the route of making each level so big, a move that would undoubtedly highlight any flaw related to lack of enemy variety. Really if I never see those enemies that fire blue projectiles from their mouth or Heretics, I will be too soon.

Regarding the soundtrack, I also agree with what people say, but in this regard I believe that it's probably an engine limitation, I don't think it allows for dynamic tracks wether the player is exploring or fighting, so it is what it is.

I really like the game, though, but I think it does have some pacing issues.

Valid points. But I'd say the encounters with the same enemies are wildly different between, say, Undercrofts and Rending Chambers. You really gotta watch what you're doing in Rending Chambers!

So yeah I think you have valid criticisms, the maps are grindy but I kinda like that. I love 100%ing these type of maps and just kind of feeling the otherworldy/kinda familiar atmosphere.

So you're spot on but I can't make heads or tails of some other complaints. There's another thread that just popped up where people are asking why "the way to go" isn't like lit up with big indicators on it so they know what to do next. What kind of game was someone like that looking for? Isn't solving the puzzle part of the enjoyment?

I haven't played many AAA shooters in a long ass time but if this game is super confusing and mind boggling, I don't even want to know what kind of training wheels on are most of them now.

[sandwichfren]

Originally posted by sandwichfren:

Really if I never see those enemies that fire blue projectiles from their mouth or Heretics, I will be too soon.

PS
I hear that lmao. At least their projectiles don't track you and never go away unless you run around and try to angle it into a wall like the vores from Quake! Can you imagine! lol

[Kain]

Oh yeah, there are definitely some bad takes. I remember when people were asking for a map for Boltgun of all games, you can't get more linear than that, so I'm not sure how someone could get lost.

This game is also very simple to navigate, only time you can get lost is to find secrets.

I think the most confusing one is that monastery one in the first chapter, but in the best ways possible. I loved getting lost, sequence breaking and then you have they lava underground area.

Must be my favorite map by far.