The New Movement Mechanics Have Depth

[BowToYourSensei]

I see a lot of people upset by the lack of traditional strafe jumping. I just wanted to make sure you fully explored the new mechanics before complaining. They have quite a bit to offer here. Remember, this game is not supposed to be the spiritual successor to Quake 1. It was supposed be a sort of love letter to all the late 90's/early 2000's fps games. So here is what I found with the new movement system, I post this to help you get some more enjoyment from this game.

• You can use the sword to initiate a bunny hop. Jump, air dash, and begin bunny hopping! To be fair, your speed will diminish by about the 3rd/4th jump. So if you have the room for it, you may need to air dash again on the 2nd/3rd jump to maintain full speed. I would prefer no diminishing speed, but this is not bad. I notice this way of bunny hopping is a lot more controller friendly than the quake 1-3 style of strafe jumping. The devs have stated plans to make console ports, so this makes sense.
  
  
• Using the air dash lets you change direction mid air. This has all sorts of uses. Particularly during the bunny hop. This lets you bunny hop around corners at full speed, and I imagine it will help you juke enemies in multiplayer.
  
  
• You can jump extra long distance when taking full advantage of the bunny hop. Move back, jump, air dash to the ledge, bunny hop off the ledge, and because you touched down once before leaving the ledge, you will be able to air dash again! This is the equivalent to air dashing twice in the same jump, because you left the ledge at full speed.
  
  
• Altitude boosts! If you air dash at the right ramps, you can get a nice vertical boost. I have had the most luck with this bunny hopping off of rocks. You jump, air dash towards the top of a rock/ramp, and bunny hop. The upward angle of the ramp will shoot you up, 2/3 times your normal jump height.
  
  
• The crouch jump really does help you reach new places. This would be useless if the maps didn't provide opportunities to take advantage of it. My favorite was in the undercrofts. In the middle of the level, after the first big open area, before the second big open area, there is a sort of valley. In this valley there is a teleporter, body armor, and a secret wall next to the body armor. You see a shrine when entering the area for the first time. This is an excellent area to play. At the bottom is a statue next to a wall/ledge. The ledge is above your head, but the statue has some steps at its base. You can crouch jump up here if you jump off the statue just right. There is a staircase nearby, so it's not necessary. But if this were a multiplayer map, being able to do that jump quickly could give you an edge over your opponent. At the top of this area is where the rune door is. It is also fun to jump clear across this valley from the rune door to an open ledge on the building on the other side.

Now I know this still isn't strafe jumping. But it was never intended to be. Having all your advanced movement mechanics tied to a weapon is a hard pill for quake fans to swallow. But does moving faster with your melee weapon equipped sound at all familiar? (**cough** counter strike **cough cough**) I see influences from many games here. Even just using the dash to get up steep ramps is similar to Unreal. Bunny hopping will always make me think of Quake, no matter how it's done. Also, I definitely feel a Soul Reaver vibe in the art style. Just saying.

[᛬ᛚᛁᚴᚠᛅᚱᛑ᛬]

Postat inițial de JMP-Jack:

I think it's just a matter of habit.
Probably there are a couple of things to fix, but they removed bunny hop for a new and different movement mechanics. The dash with the blade is an example.

Anyway, bunny hop or not, I like the game and I'll play it regardless of the developer decisions.

For sure. The developers are free to do as they please, it's their game. I'm also free to voice my concerns and vote with my wallet.

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

Postat inițial de brain O))):

Postat inițial de JMP-Jack:

I think it's just a matter of habit.
Probably there are a couple of things to fix, but they removed bunny hop for a new and different movement mechanics. The dash with the blade is an example.

Anyway, bunny hop or not, I like the game and I'll play it regardless of the developer decisions.

For sure. The developers are free to do as they please, it's their game. I'm also free to voice my concerns and vote with my wallet.

No one say you can't.
It's just a discussion

[᛬ᛚᛁᚴᚠᛅᚱᛑ᛬]

Postat inițial de JMP-Jack:

Postat inițial de brain O))):

I have abused a fair bit of these games too. Half-Life (pre-steam patch) is near identical to Quakeworld in that regard, except for the lack of buffered jumps and altered slope physics.

I still fail to see the logic behind that reasoning.

If you would "un-remove" (lol) the air strafing mechanics, would Wrath cease to be it's own thing?

You also have to consider that most people who play Quake DO NOT bunnyhop, so to them Wrath right now is as close to a Quake mod that Wrath would be to you with bunnyhops, if you get me.

The problem is: If they change the movements mechanics, need also to change the maps.
The maps are adapted to the actual mechanics (jump distance, dash, etc..).

No they don't. Why would they NEED to?

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

Postat inițial de brain O))):

Postat inițial de JMP-Jack:

The problem is: If they change the movements mechanics, need also to change the maps.
The maps are adapted to the actual mechanics (jump distance, dash, etc..).

No they don't. Why would they NEED to?

Not in this case, but unfortunately I'd say it's common enough, mate. Trust me

[Damien Azreal]

Killpixel commented on the 3DR discord they intentionally removed air-strafing because they felt it hurt the level progression they were designing for Wrath.

It's understandable that a lot of people went into this expecting Quake, with new levels/enemies. But, it is in fact a new game. And as such, the developers are wanting to build their own mechanics and gameplay style.
So, just because it's on the Quake 1 Engine, players should not expect it to function or play exactly like Quake.


But, Killpixel did say he was working on an answer to the air movement.

[BowToYourSensei]

I am not saying I do not want the game to be just like Quake. I said in an earlier comment, that I would not have minded the Quake movement mechanics to be put in. My point here was that the new mechanics have a lot more depth than one may have initially noticed. Upon diving into these mechanics, I was not left wanting. I do still feel a combination of both mechanics would be redundant. Maybe even too powerful and fast. If they bring strafe jumping back, I would suggest they nerf the blade dash. With the system as is, I believe this character could do everything on a Quake map that Ranger could. An example is the Wrath guy could easily bridge to rail.

Regarding the Quake mod argument, to be clear I am not saying I do not want it to be just like Quake. I am saying the devs probably wanted to change up the feel of the game so it wouldn't feel like a quake mod. But rather, have it's own feel and style to further distinguish it. Yes, they are obviously throwing a big nod to quake fans. But the idea was to make a game with all the best parts of ALL the big shooters from back in the day. I have stated that the current system shows some love to both the Unreal and Half-Life/Counter Strike fans as well.

They could easily bring back the Quake movement. I think a little balancing would be in order though. Like make the blade dash only work when the secondary fire is at full charge. That way, you would still have the benefits of it, but make the Quake style movement more necessary.

But I will add here, that I went back to playing some Quake after putting several hours into Wrath. And I never thought I would have played a game that made Quake feel slow. Wrath did that to me.

[᛬ᛚᛁᚴᚠᛅᚱᛑ᛬]

Postat inițial de Damien Azreal:

Killpixel commented on the 3DR discord they intentionally removed air-strafing because they felt it hurt the level progression they were designing for Wrath.

It's understandable that a lot of people went into this expecting Quake, with new levels/enemies. But, it is in fact a new game. And as such, the developers are wanting to build their own mechanics and gameplay style.
So, just because it's on the Quake 1 Engine, players should not expect it to function or play exactly like Quake.


But, Killpixel did say he was working on an answer to the air movement.

I get you. Bad move imo, but it's the developer's choice in the end.

I'm also sorry, English isn't my native language, what do you mean by "answer"?

[Flytrap]

I like the movement. The only thing i dont like about it is when i step off, even a tiny height, like stairs, i go flying, and i cannot change direction in the air. I wish the character stuck to the ground more, so i wouldn't become 'airborne' after stepping off a rock thats like 5 cm high.

[BowToYourSensei]

Yes, ^^ keeping exact positioning on slopes is difficult. I found this to be a non issue with a controller however.

[BowToYourSensei]

While I said I would not have minded quake movement be in the game, that was my first impression going into it. But after experiencing what is here, I do not think that is my opinion anymore. The new system works very well with a controller, and Quake movement just does not. I look forward to playing this on my switch in the future. And if quake movement is brought back before then, I will feel like I am definitely missing out on a big feature in a game like this.

So here are some trick jumps to try in the meanwhile:

When entering the mourning vale from the initial spawn cave, you are at the top of a hairpin ramp. Above the hairpin is a brown colored ledge that contains a secret. Well, you can jump dash into the rock in the hairpin, bunny hop off it when you do, perform a 180 and air dash back onto the brown ledge. You can also air dash across the valley to the snow covered ledge on the other side off the same rock.

There are some piers down by the waterfall. You can bounce off the rocks with the described method and land in the circle of stones.

Then come on back from the circular stone island, and at the end of the pier on the left, use that rock to bounce up into the waterfall cave.

Follow the stream back, and stay in the water next to the pier in the cave. You can use the bank of the stream to bounce out the left exit of the cave (viewing from the waterfall direction) onto the slope that heads up the hill.

While heading up the hill there are two broken staircases. You can use the hill at the top of the stairs to bounce up both staircases, into the cave with the shrine. All in one big chained bounce session up the hill.

[Damien Azreal]

Postat inițial de brain O))):

I get you. Bad move imo, but it's the developer's choice in the end.

I'm also sorry, English isn't my native language, what do you mean by "answer"?

I personally don't think it's a bad move. They are not trying to make Quake, they want to make their own game, and that includes how it plays.

And by " answer" he.means trying to work in a compromise. Something that will satisfy people who want air control, but not hurt the intended progression that Wrath is designed around

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

As I said, it's just a matter of habit.
As rocket jump/bunny hop in Quake, also Wrath have his "hidden" special movement: blade dash.

With custom weapons binding and a bit of practice (and maybe a faster weapon switch), we have a dynamic and fast paced gameplay.

Probably there's still something to fix and parameter to adjust, but I think the developers have clear ideas. Let's trust them and enjoy the game.

[BowToYourSensei]

^^ I agree. Its a new system to learn, but effective in its own way. This was the whole point of this thread. The new mechanics are different, but they have just as much to offer. You just have to learn the new system. And that, I believe is a good thing. Honestly I am having way more fun exploring how to take advantage of these new mechanics, than I ever would have if they kept the old Quake style of movement.

[Damien Azreal]

Sadly, a lot of people read/saw "New Quake Engine Game" and seem to have taken that to mean a new game that plays like Quake.

Which is not the case.
Ion Fury was a new Build Engine game, but it does not play like Duke3D. There are a lot of differences between how they play. And the same with Wrath, it pushes the engine much further and they are definitely doing their own thing.

[BowToYourSensei]

I understand that ^^. However, one guy stated that just pushing a button to go fast just does absolutely nothing for him. And that guy may not have realized the depth of the mechanics available here. I can't say for sure if he fully understood the new system or not. So I was hoping to put people onto how to use the system with this thread. And help coax them over from Quake. Because I am having a blast with this new system, and If he knew how to use it, I think he would too.