The New Movement Mechanics Have Depth

[BowToYourSensei]

I see a lot of people upset by the lack of traditional strafe jumping. I just wanted to make sure you fully explored the new mechanics before complaining. They have quite a bit to offer here. Remember, this game is not supposed to be the spiritual successor to Quake 1. It was supposed be a sort of love letter to all the late 90's/early 2000's fps games. So here is what I found with the new movement system, I post this to help you get some more enjoyment from this game.

• You can use the sword to initiate a bunny hop. Jump, air dash, and begin bunny hopping! To be fair, your speed will diminish by about the 3rd/4th jump. So if you have the room for it, you may need to air dash again on the 2nd/3rd jump to maintain full speed. I would prefer no diminishing speed, but this is not bad. I notice this way of bunny hopping is a lot more controller friendly than the quake 1-3 style of strafe jumping. The devs have stated plans to make console ports, so this makes sense.
  
  
• Using the air dash lets you change direction mid air. This has all sorts of uses. Particularly during the bunny hop. This lets you bunny hop around corners at full speed, and I imagine it will help you juke enemies in multiplayer.
  
  
• You can jump extra long distance when taking full advantage of the bunny hop. Move back, jump, air dash to the ledge, bunny hop off the ledge, and because you touched down once before leaving the ledge, you will be able to air dash again! This is the equivalent to air dashing twice in the same jump, because you left the ledge at full speed.
  
  
• Altitude boosts! If you air dash at the right ramps, you can get a nice vertical boost. I have had the most luck with this bunny hopping off of rocks. You jump, air dash towards the top of a rock/ramp, and bunny hop. The upward angle of the ramp will shoot you up, 2/3 times your normal jump height.
  
  
• The crouch jump really does help you reach new places. This would be useless if the maps didn't provide opportunities to take advantage of it. My favorite was in the undercrofts. In the middle of the level, after the first big open area, before the second big open area, there is a sort of valley. In this valley there is a teleporter, body armor, and a secret wall next to the body armor. You see a shrine when entering the area for the first time. This is an excellent area to play. At the bottom is a statue next to a wall/ledge. The ledge is above your head, but the statue has some steps at its base. You can crouch jump up here if you jump off the statue just right. There is a staircase nearby, so it's not necessary. But if this were a multiplayer map, being able to do that jump quickly could give you an edge over your opponent. At the top of this area is where the rune door is. It is also fun to jump clear across this valley from the rune door to an open ledge on the building on the other side.

Now I know this still isn't strafe jumping. But it was never intended to be. Having all your advanced movement mechanics tied to a weapon is a hard pill for quake fans to swallow. But does moving faster with your melee weapon equipped sound at all familiar? (**cough** counter strike **cough cough**) I see influences from many games here. Even just using the dash to get up steep ramps is similar to Unreal. Bunny hopping will always make me think of Quake, no matter how it's done. Also, I definitely feel a Soul Reaver vibe in the art style. Just saying.

[Durandal]

Why not both?

[BowToYourSensei]

The definitely could. I'll admit, the first thing I did in the game was see if I could strafe jump. I would not have minded seeing it put in. But I kind of like this. Again, it is controller friendly. And the new system gives me a new skill to learn. And if I have to learn it, the old veteran Quake players will too. And that gives beginners a better chance to compete in the future multiplayer. Overall I was happy to see that there was depth to the movement mechanics. Because that is what I really wanted.

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

I like the current movement mechanics. This game is NOT Quake. It have his own "personality" and gameplay.
If they add the same movement of Quake, become another "Quake clone".

[PineFox]

I think having both is the best way, you could get some seriously nice flow and diversity in the way you move around the map then.
Ramp jumping was always a thing but it's intensified now with the speed you get from the blade dash.
I don't think most people requesting air strafing are doing so because they want it to be exactly like quake, just that air strafing/bhopping is super fun and why not jut keep that fun mechanic in.

[BowToYourSensei]

One thing to consider is how the current system shows love to other titles of the era. Not just quake. I think JMP-Jack has the same mind set as the devs. They wanted to make a new game, not a Quake mod/expansion.

[BowToYourSensei]

Also, having both quake movement and the current system would be redundant. There is nothing you could do with quake movement that can't be done here. You can animation cancel out of the ruination blades attacks. So pick your intended weapon, then select the blade. Use the blade to move around quickly, then when you need your gun, tap the last weapon button ("Q" by default). I feel this character would fit right in, as is, as a Quake Champion.

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

Indeed. Instant weapon switching is the way. You can swap behind long range weapons and blade for a better fast paced gameplay

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

I always customize the weapons binding with this type of games.

For example: Q=Rocket Launcher; MWHEEL DOWN=Shotgun; R=Grenade Launcher; F=Chaingun;etc..

Imagine this in a big arena with pillars and a boss in the centre. Shoot the monster -> The monster attack you -> instant switch the blade -> jump and dash on the near pillar -> instant switch anoter weapons and shoot again the monster etc...

[BowToYourSensei]

^^ This is the way. (yes, that was a star wars reference) But consider this as well: It is not uncommon in Quake to use your rocket launcher to create a speed boost to start your strafe jumping. Even just consider rocket jumping. Both of these are movement mechanics tied to a weapon. In Wrath however, you always have the weapon you need to do this, you have unlimited ammo for it, and it causes no self damage to use.

[᛬ᛚᛁᚴᚠᛅᚱᛑ᛬]

Imo, the "we don't want this to be just like a quake mod/copy" talking point is dumb and contradictory.

Would you consider games like Half-Life, Jedi Outcast and Kingpin to be Quake copies?

Isn't the selling point of Wrath that it's using the Quake engine?

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

Originally posted by brain O))):

Imo, the "we don't want this to be just like a quake mod/copy" talking point is dumb and contradictory.

Would you consider games like Half-Life, Jedi Outcast and Kingpin to be Quake copies?

Isn't the selling point of Wrath that it's using the Quake engine?

Easy, man. Easy.

No because are a completely different game with their own gameplay mechanics. Just like Wrath (for now).
I have all of this games.

[᛬ᛚᛁᚴᚠᛅᚱᛑ᛬]

To OP:

Every "abusable" movement has depth in some way, even games that aren't strafe of even momentum based. There's no doubt about that, though some movements are clearly superior to others.

I think most people who are disappointed about the lack of Quake-like bunnyhopping in Wrath are so because it's a staple of the idtech engines, also that the knife mechanics TOGETHER with bunnyhopping would have made Wrath a seriously sick game, and them removing it is a wasted opportunity for Wrath to become just that.

I don't really care if a game has bunnyhopping or not, but I thought (and still think) Wrath has the potential to become really really sick, and that's why I and others voice our opinions about it.

[᛬ᛚᛁᚴᚠᛅᚱᛑ᛬]

Originally posted by JMP-Jack:

Originally posted by brain O))):

Imo, the "we don't want this to be just like a quake mod/copy" talking point is dumb and contradictory.

Would you consider games like Half-Life, Jedi Outcast and Kingpin to be Quake copies?

Isn't the selling point of Wrath that it's using the Quake engine?

Easy, man. Easy.

No because are a completely different game with their own gameplay mechanics. Just like Wrath (for now).
I have all of this games.

I have abused a fair bit of these games too. Half-Life (pre-steam patch) is near identical to Quakeworld in that regard, except for the lack of buffered jumps and altered slope physics.

I still fail to see the logic behind that reasoning.

If you would "un-remove" (lol) the air strafing mechanics, would Wrath cease to be it's own thing?

You also have to consider that most people who play Quake DO NOT bunnyhop, so to them Wrath right now is as close to a Quake mod that Wrath would be to you with bunnyhops, if you get me.

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

I think it's just a matter of habit.
Probably there are a couple of things to fix, but they removed bunny hop for a new and different movement mechanics. The dash with the blade is an example.

Anyway, bunny hop or not, I like the game and I'll play it regardless of the developer decisions.

[Pierpalle_Scroti]

Originally posted by brain O))):

Originally posted by JMP-Jack:

Easy, man. Easy.

No because are a completely different game with their own gameplay mechanics. Just like Wrath (for now).
I have all of this games.

I have abused a fair bit of these games too. Half-Life (pre-steam patch) is near identical to Quakeworld in that regard, except for the lack of buffered jumps and altered slope physics.

I still fail to see the logic behind that reasoning.

If you would "un-remove" (lol) the air strafing mechanics, would Wrath cease to be it's own thing?

You also have to consider that most people who play Quake DO NOT bunnyhop, so to them Wrath right now is as close to a Quake mod that Wrath would be to you with bunnyhops, if you get me.

The problem is: If they change the movements mechanics, need also to change the maps.
The maps are adapted to the actual mechanics (jump distance, dash, etc..).