when auto-parry doesn't work

[voronin_mike]

Noticed (about the time of 2 patches back) that in some cases some attacks just pass through auto-parry and nick my fighter. Especially common from Martha, French girl, Alexander and SOME attacks from the guy with Wallachian axe. In some cases this could be my mistakes with actually pressing attacking key before parry is executed, but for many cases I'm sure it's not it. In some cases - especially when they use combos - I can about see how this occurred from real-world geometry / physics. But again, for some cases I just see how the attack went and was sure that real-world I could parry it okay.
So, can anybody explain how and when those cases work?

[B8B3B]

marta and marie: you need to go into long guard to parry rapiers

yendrek: his axe goes around guards

alexander: no explanation, shouldn't happen

[Subutai]

Is Alexander finding angles around your block? That is a concept many characters use but Alexander is the best at it by design cause of his footwork. For instance if he sidesteps or lands his stab from really close in. He uses the geometry of it to his advantage so you do have to adjust your position to what he is doing thanks to his footsies. (This goes both ways keep in mind. You can also strike his openings)

Any character may also break through if they strike towards your weak.

EDIT: One other thing worth noting is the weapons all have different masses. Temujin kinda touched on this but this is true for the sabers too. Alexander's is among the heaviest of the sabers as per Kubold's update a while back (but not as heavy of course as a longsword or Kalk's weapon) but in return he was slowed down so the mass has its drawbacks too. These subtle weights can influence how blades interact just like in real life as can the attack. Some attacks by design are more "forcing" than others too if they find a good angle and this is true across the board. Not all guards are created equal too. Some characters guard certain openings better than others.

[Zeel Ara]

Parry isn't guaranteed. It isn't a block button from a fighting game. The character will attempt to move their weapon so as to parry the attack but there is zero guarantee that they will be able to do so if the strike comes from a bad angle, is strong enough to knock your blade aside, or needs very little time to connect.

It is physics based, not a binary state of "parry or no parry".

[voronin_mike]

Thanks you, dear Mongols! ;)
Some cases, as I said, I saw that the strike would probably get through irl. In other cases - not so much. And my fighter in this case was Isabella, so - very doubtful that his blade being heavy played a role. ;)))

[Subutai]

Originally posted by voronin_mike:

Thanks you, dear Mongols! ;)
Some cases, as I said, I saw that the strike would probably get through irl. In other cases - not so much. And my fighter in this case was Isabella, so - very doubtful that his blade being heavy played a role. ;)))

I suspect he is finding an angle to the side as Isabella struggles sometimes against sabers to defend the side of her face. That is the tactic I tend to use when fighting her personally. As well as just punishing whiffs and the standard stuff. Going for snipes tends to work well too. If you test her autoguard you will find other sabers do a similar thing as well if you find a good move.

More often than not I actually find in my experience Alexander's sword is sliding off people and not doing damage sometimes. Like when I impale someone with his thrust it does not seem to register enough damage at times ( I do not mind if it is a graze or push cut that it does little of course) and sometimes cuts bounce off the head. Idk if this is just him or if this is an issue with the game but it gets annoying in survival :D. Not saying you are wrong either but this game is still early access so I suspect more polishing is needed.

[B8B3B]

i suspect thrusts are generally bugged. i play rapiers mostly and often i wonder how it just didn't kill. i'm pretty sure i can set a record with both marie and marta for five thrusts without killing.

[BaconHer0]

The visuals for thrusts can be a little misleading, sometimes you see the blade penetrate the body but it doesn't kill. The thing is, the game seems to treat some of those as "side cuts", and rapiers have very low cut damage

For rapiers to have max effect, you'll need to land a thrust around the tip. You damage falls off significantly if your thrust is launched too close to your target

[voronin_mike]

Originally posted by BaconHer0:

For rapiers to have max effect, you'll need to land a thrust around the tip. You damage falls off significantly if your thrust is launched too close to your target

Which is the opposite to how they actually work.. %)
Thanks for the info anyway.
Generally, there seems to be some discrepancy between how the move is shown and how the game's physics engine treats it. It's not large, and it's not that often, but it seems to be there in the code somewhere. %) Just a few minutes ago got a cut in using Isabella again, and it looked to me to be an almost horizontal cut to an ear area - and the damage shown was as it's almost vertical cut to the front of the face. I COULD not take into account the blade's inertia enough, but...

[BaconHer0]

The wound decals in this game aren't aligned with where the blade hits, it's just how the game was designed. The wounds spawn from bodypart damage.

So, if you get damaged in the torso, a great big slash appears across the torso even though it was caused by a pin prick thrust. It may be visually confusing at first but it's not a big deal

Just think of the wounds as decorative. It's not supposed to precisely represent where the blade actually hit. Maybe in future patches these aesthetic concerns will get addressed

Originally posted by voronin_mike:

Which is the opposite to how they actually work.. %)

I wouldn't agree with that. If your thrust is launched too close to the target, especially if your point is already past their body, then you'll only be sliding the edge of the rapier against cloth, which should do much less damage

Visually in 3rd person this is hard to see, but in first person view, if your attack is too close, you can see why your attack is weak. And that's because the tip is past the target.

What makes this confusing is that the rapier frequently clips through enemies and makes it look like it penetrated, but in reality it should just be bumping to the side of your opponent's body

[voronin_mike]

Originally posted by BaconHer0:

Originally posted by voronin_mike:

Which is the opposite to how they actually work.. %)

I wouldn't agree with that. If your thrust is launched too close to the target, especially if your point is already past their body,

In which case it would be a clear miss. Or, of course, a time to get a pommel strike in . And yeah, there was a reason why they were used paired with daggers... ;)) (Marie's stance is especially telling in this respect - I seem to remember an illustration from that fechbuch..)