For people confused about longsword cuts.

[Someguyinhere]

There's been a few people around who don't understand why Isabella has so many quick, flicky strikes. They wonder why all of her moves aren't BIG hewing cuts, or power cuts like they might see in modern cutting demos.

I won't bore you with science. If you want science, look up things about levers and how they amplify force. The quick and non-technical truth is that those ARE powerful cuts.

Weapons are force multipliers. All weapons are technically levers, and that's why polearms are so OP. Due to physics and the weight distribution of a longsword, it takes very little from us to produce a SCARY amount of force at the point of percussion. The POP being the optimal section of the blade for cutting.

Those movements you think are small are FRIGHTENINGLY fast. The tip of the sword is hauling ass. If it hits your unprotected skin, you will have an incredibly bad time.

Speed is power. Also, if you wind up with a BIG anime swing in real fights, you'd get destroyed. A 14 year old squire could school you if that's how you think you use a weapon. Telegraphing is bad.

[Retroark]

^^^^

[Tiwaking! 56k NZ]

What I dont get is why people will accept a tap from a saber as deadly but not one from a longsword. The longsword in this game is realistically brutal and deadly.

[Chick-Magnet]

she could stand to have a few large cleaving attacks in her arsenal. its not entirely out of the question given it really doesnt take that much time to wind up a sword like that and swing it.

[Someguyinhere]

Originally posted by Viable.Asset:

she could stand to have a few large cleaving attacks in her arsenal. its not entirely out of the question given it really doesnt take that much time to wind up a sword like that and swing it.

There is no winding up in any proper martial art. Winding up is telegraphing and doesn't even maximize power. Maximum power from proper form and utilization of the kinetic chain from your legs up to the hips and through the core.

She also DOES have hewing cuts available from her guards. Hollywood haymaker cuts aren't a real thing.

[Tiwaking! 56k NZ]

Originally posted by Someguyinhere:

Originally posted by Viable.Asset:

she could stand to have a few large cleaving attacks in her arsenal. its not entirely out of the question given it really doesnt take that much time to wind up a sword like that and swing it.

There is no winding up in any proper martial art.

Someguyinhere is 100% correct.
Here is what actual longsword combat training looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QHlqBckPYE
You walk into that you are dead.

[Someguyinhere]

Originally posted by Tiwaking! 56k NZ:

Originally posted by Someguyinhere:

There is no winding up in any proper martial art.

Someguyinhere is 100% correct.
Here is what actual longsword combat training looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QHlqBckPYE
You walk into that you are dead.

The first thing they teach you in boxing even is DO NOT WIND UP. You aren't a robot, you don't need to lock back for a piston punch. Not even power punches involve any winding up whatsoever. So even in hand-to-hand it isn't a thing.

[WillieTheWolf]

I agree with the posts and it thesis, but I feel there might be something a bit off with the longsword damage though. It's ridiculous how sometimes how dropping the sword while dead, if it barely touches you, you are dead. I had more ties vs Isabella (against human player) than any other character. But completely ridiculous, like 6 ties on a row due to the blade seemingly being made of Vibranium.

[Someguyinhere]

Originally posted by WillieTheWolf:

I agree with the posts and it thesis, but I feel there might be something a bit off with the longsword damage though. It's ridiculous how sometimes how dropping the sword while dead, if it barely touches you, you are dead. I had more ties vs Isabella (against human player) than any other character. But completely ridiculous, like 6 ties on a row due to the blade seemingly being made of Vibranium.

That's a physics issue in game, yes. This was just more about educating people a little bit on how a real longsword works so they'd understand the animations a bit more.

Trust me everyone. It's really worth learning about the reality of medieval combat and even medieval culture and life. What Hollywood and games have taught you is not only wrong but BORING compared to the real stuff.

[MightyBeowulf]

Maybe some of you will find it interesting about Isabelle fighting style
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoQlvc_H3s
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B54w_u8tm9Q
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cob3JMmtctY
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyVu0z4aGFc
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad7_O0KEurc

[Kamamura]

I can only say that what the OP says is utterly and absolutely wrong, and it contradicts everything I have been taught. You of course don't need powerful strikes in a poking contest. What Matt shows there is a preparatory training that should give students control over the blade, it's not meant to be the proper representation of a cut. This is how a cut looks like (go to 2:04 to see the first cuts, and notice how weaker was his third when he cut from the left and his technique is much worse, because he does not rotate his feet with the cut):

https://youtu.be/3WvkHMGR660?t=114

As to "no martial arts has winding up" - sure you can thrust just by extending an arm and followed by a lunge, but co perform proper cuts, you need reasonable (not excessive!) backswing, and most importantly, you need proper edge-alignment, which is impossible to echieve without a proper, stright (not curved!) cutting line - even when you are going for the record (starts with 0:41):

https://youtu.be/_2VE8BljLyc?t=42

I won't bother you with the physics (which the OP obviously does not understand), but rotating the swords around its center of mass gives it only a fraction of cutting power compared to a technically proper cut when the center of mass actually accelerates with the cut. A proper cut involves not only elbows, but shoulders, hips, footwork, whole body working in tandem.

The bread and butter moveset should be based on seven full-length, full strength (but fast and technical cuts), I believe it would add range and power to Isabella and make her as stronger fighter (she already has that one diagonal cut from the iron gate guard - and how powerful it is, when timed well, crushing through opponent's guard).

So when somebody waves his weapon in a "whirly-girly" style, thinking "walk into this, and you are dead!", he may meet his end in a single, proper, well-timed cat that will both outrange him and overpower him.

We need this:

https://youtu.be/QLAnCJ_3eMU

Pay attention to 3:42 where he criticizes girly-whirling, because you rob yourself of reach.

We also need horizontal full-range, full strength cuts that aim at the midsections of the torso.

If you bring a longsword to the fight, you better use it - as a longsword.

[Someguyinhere]

Originally posted by Kamamura:

I can only say that what the OP says is utterly and absolutely wrong, and it contradicts everything I have been taught. You of course don't need powerful strikes in a poking contest. What Matt shows there is a preparatory training that should give students control over the blade, it's not meant to be the proper representation of a cut. This is how a cut looks like (go to 2:04 to see the first cuts, and notice how weaker was his third when he cut from the left and his technique is much worse, because he does not rotate his feet with the cut):

https://youtu.be/3WvkHMGR660?t=114

As to "no martial arts has winding up" - sure you can thrust just by extending an arm and followed by a lunge, but co perform proper cuts, you need reasonable (not excessive!) backswing, and most importantly, you need proper edge-alignment, which is impossible to echieve without a proper, stright (not curved!) cutting line - even when you are going for the record (starts with 0:41):

https://youtu.be/_2VE8BljLyc?t=42

I won't bother you with the physics (which the OP obviously does not understand), but rotating the swords around its center of mass gives it only a fraction of cutting power compared to a technically proper cut when the center of mass actually accelerates with the cut. A proper cut involves not only elbows, but shoulders, hips, footwork, whole body working in tandem.

The bread and butter moveset should be based on seven full-length, full strength (but fast and technical cuts), I believe it would add range and power to Isabella and make her as stronger fighter (she already has that one diagonal cut from the iron gate guard - and how powerful it is, when timed well, crushing through opponent's guard).

So when somebody waves his weapon in a "whirly-girly" style, thinking "walk into this, and you are dead!", he may meet his end in a single, proper, well-timed cat that will both outrange him and overpower him.

We need this:

https://youtu.be/QLAnCJ_3eMU

Pay attention to 3:42 where he criticizes girly-whirling, because you rob yourself of reach.

We also need horizontal full-range, full strength cuts that aim at the midsections of the torso.

If you bring a longsword to the fight, you better use it - as a longsword.

Oh go away. Everyone here knows you're full of ♥♥♥♥. Only swordsmanship you know is double fisting your meatsaber to videos about how spears are a Jewish HEMA conspiracy to bolster the hardwood market, or whatever your theory is.

[BassMusket]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, you're both right. Quick, 'sniping' cuts where the sword simply shoots forward with quick but precise motion and power will certainly do damage if it hits the right UNPROTECTED place. Fingers? gone. Arm? quite likely to have blood vessels, tendons, and nerves severed. Neck or face? yikes!

However, a good amount of longsword technique does revolve around more powerful, full- body cuts where you put more into it. Any HEMA longsword sparring video will show this. Most mid- high level practitioners only do occasional whippy cuts, while spending most of the bout using full swings. Obviously, large levels of telegraphing and overswinging are incorrect.

Luckily, combining Isabella's attacks with the proper movement keys in certain positions and with the right momentum will actually produce some more powerful, full- body cuts. She's just.... a difficult character to learn right now.

And while the heavier, more full- body cuts might be preferred with blunt weapons and protective gear, who's to say that unprotected people with sharp weapons would be as brash? They very well might prefer to try and end the fight from a distance with 'sniping' blows, rather than charging into their opponent like a rhinoceros *cough* HEMA guys *cough* *cough*.

[NiNas in Pyjamas]

This was both fun and educational!

[Janus3003]

"For you should strike or thrust in the shortest and nearest way possible. For in this righteous fencing do not make wide or ungainly parries or fence in large movements by which people restrict themselves. Many Masters of play fighting... Often they want to alter or give a new name to a technique, all out of their own heads and think up wide reaching fencing and parries and often make two or three strikes when one would be enough or stepping through and thrust, and for this they receive praise from the ignorant. With their bad parries and wide fencing they try to look dangerous with wide and long strikes that are slow and with these they perform strikes that miss and create openings in themselves. They have no proper reach in their fencing and that belongs not to real fencing but only to school fencing and the exercises for their own sake. But real fencing goes straight and is simple in all things without holding back or being restricted just as if a string had been tied or as if they had been connected."

Cod.HS.3227a, Hanko Doebringer fechtbuch from 1389

[Bo]

Originally posted by Someguyinhere:

There's been a few people around who don't understand why Isabella has so many quick, flicky strikes. They wonder why all of her moves aren't BIG hewing cuts, or power cuts like they might see in modern cutting demos.

I won't bore you with science. If you want science, look up things about levers and how they amplify force. The quick and non-technical truth is that those ARE powerful cuts.

Weapons are force multipliers. All weapons are technically levers, and that's why polearms are so OP. Due to physics and the weight distribution of a longsword, it takes very little from us to produce a SCARY amount of force at the point of percussion. The POP being the optimal section of the blade for cutting.

Those movements you think are small are FRIGHTENINGLY fast. The tip of the sword is hauling ass. If it hits your unprotected skin, you will have an incredibly bad time.

Speed is power. Also, if you wind up with a BIG anime swing in real fights, you'd get destroyed. A 14 year old squire could school you if that's how you think you use a weapon. Telegraphing is bad.

I love it is oriented by the heritage of traditional bladestyles!!!
i`m dreaming of an untypical one. i would love to see it integrated.