Scout Assessment Agregation

[mishael1]

A thread about our complete assessment on the Scout class, from it's Core problems to his broken OP and UP weapons, with our suggested changes. I will start with my analysis but please correct and add upon this. Soon I will add the threads for the other classes.

CORE STATUS

Currently, Scout is Mildly OP and Mildly Broken.
His OPness rises not from his Core charasteristics, but from his relations to the other classes: He counters many classes, and is not countered by many.

The main culprits in his rise to OPness are:

• Heavie's Ramp Up mechanic, that disables him from countering scout hard enough, and, to a slightly lesser extent
• Pyro's undercapability in general.

Therefor, fixing those issues (as they will be suggested in those classe's respective threads) should fix scout's OPness.

The main culprit in scout's brokenness are his Unlockable weapons, some of which also cause him to be more powerful than he should. Fixing them should result in scout being balanced.

Weapon's Status: PRIMARY WEAPONS

• Stock Scattergun: BALANCED.
  No issues to be fixed
  
• Shortstop: BALANCED.
  No issues to be fixed, slightly underwhelming weapon.
  
• Force-A-Nature: BROKEN to an extent, very slightly UP.
  Fixing the weapon seems very difficult. Should probably be left as is.
  
• Soda Popper: OVERPOWERED, due to better DPS and burst damage.
  An easy fix to this weapon would be a plain reduction in the firing rate, from +50% to +35%, so 0.405 second firing interval instead of 0.315second.
  
• Baby Face's blaster: BROKEN, UP to a small degree
  Suggested fix: Removal of the current Boost mechanic, replaced with the following new stats:
  
  • Pros:
    • On hit build Boost Meter. 100 damage for a full Boost meter.
      
    • On full Meter, alt fire to activate 2.5 seconds of +20% speed boost
  • Optional neutral stat: alt fire during boost stops it midway retaining however boost is left.
    
  • Cons:
    • -33% Clip Size
    • Air jumping while boosted reduces 0.75 seconds off your boost time
    • Cannot build Boost Meter while boosted (Unlisted, you simply see your meter slowly decreasing)
• Back Scatterer UNDERPOWERED
  An easy fix to this weapon would be a decrease in the spread penalty, from 20% to 10%, and an increase in the Minicrit range from 500H units to 600H units is very much reasonable.

Weapon's Status: SECONDARY WEAPONS

• Stock Pistol: BALANCED
  No issues to be fixed
  
• Bonk! BALANCED
  No issues to be fixed. Rather situational.
  
• Crit-a-Cola BROKEN AND OP
  To fix, replace old effect with the following and remove damage penalty completely
  
  • When used, +15% damage dealt and +10% movement speed
• Mad Milk OVERPOWERED
  To fix, reduce the healing ability from 60% to 50% and reduce the effect's time from 10 seconds to 8 seconds, similar to the Jarate.
  
• Winger BALANCED
  No issues to be fixed. Rather situational, might be better if it had 6 bullets per clip instead of 5.
  
• Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol Underpowered
  
  • Remove current Volnurability and Health Steal properties
  • introduce the upside +1HP/Second while active instead
  • introduce +100% slower switch from downside to prevent abuse
• Flying Guilyotin BALANCED, However Stun and Slow mechanics are not and should be removed. I suggest a slight increase of the damage from 50 to 55 to compensate their inevitable removal.

Weapon's Status: MELEE WEAPONS

The biggest problem of the class probably lies here:

• Stock Bat: Underpowered. As a Stock Melee this is acceptable.
  
  
• Sandman: BROKEN and OVERPOWERED, due to Stun effects having no place in TF2.
  Stun mechanic should be removed entirely. Could be replaced with a Mark For Death effect for a duration of 2-5 seconds scaling in distance similar to now.
  
• Candy cane: Slightly Underpowered.
  Blast volnurability could maybe be reduced from 25% to 20%, though you would still die to a direct pill.
  
• Boston Basher: Slightly overpowered (Compared to the line I am setting)
  Suggested fix: 10% less healing from medics while bleeding, 10% less uber built while bleeding, which slightly reduces the build utility but retains the mobility utility
  
• Sun on a Stick: Underpowered. Could be kept this way, but alternatively:
  New stats
  • On hit, sets target on fire for 5 seconds
    
  • Minicrits burning targets
    
  • -20% damage against players
    
  • -15% attack speed
• Fan of War: BALANCED
  
• Atomizer: OVERPOWERED (Compared to the line I am setting)
  Suggested fix: Replace 10HP penalty on third jump with 5HP penalty on both the first and second air jump.
  
• Wrap Assassin: BALANCED

Tell me what you think.

[Dr. Raven]

Scout as a whole seems very fine, skill balanced, fits really well into the game. Manageable to beat with practice.


Like you said, it's his broken unlocks that are the problem. I don't enjoy being nuked by the soda popper. And I definitely don't enjoy crit-a-cola scouts either. Force-a-nature is kinda iffy for me, while I can't think of any other unlocks I hate.

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

Scout as a whole seems very fine, skill balanced, fits really well into the game. Manageable to beat with practice.


Like you said, it's his broken unlocks that are the problem. I don't enjoy being nuked by the soda popper. And I definitely don't enjoy crit-a-cola scouts either. Force-a-nature is kinda iffy for me, while I can't think of any other unlocks I hate.

Mad Milk, for one, is Overpowered greatly.

[Overtime Times Two]

Are you still making the primary list?
Because I can't see it.

[Dr. Raven]

Originally posted by mishael1:

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

Scout as a whole seems very fine, skill balanced, fits really well into the game. Manageable to beat with practice.


Like you said, it's his broken unlocks that are the problem. I don't enjoy being nuked by the soda popper. And I definitely don't enjoy crit-a-cola scouts either. Force-a-nature is kinda iffy for me, while I can't think of any other unlocks I hate.

Mad Milk, for one, is Overpowered greatly.

That's another one, but I'm not too against it. Careful when throwing out poor mad milk on the chopping block. Think of the MvM enthusiasts! Currently the best secondary to use on MvM for scout I think.

[Overtime Times Two]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

Originally posted by mishael1:

Mad Milk, for one, is Overpowered greatly.

That's another one, but I'm not too against it. Careful when throwing out poor mad milk on the chopping block. Think of the MvM enthusiasts! Currently the best secondary to use on MvM for scout I think.

Overheal-heavy, MM,Crit canteen,Brass beast.

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Just A Magic Bagel:

Are you still making the primary list?
Because I can't see it.

Done. Starting the Secondary list.

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

Originally posted by mishael1:

Mad Milk, for one, is Overpowered greatly.

That's another one, but I'm not too against it. Careful when throwing out poor mad milk on the chopping block. Think of the MvM enthusiasts! Currently the best secondary to use on MvM for scout I think.

It doesn't need to be Destroyed in order to balance it. Reducing the Healing ability by a mere 10% should fix it. Still Overpowered currently, and hefftily so.

[Overtime Times Two]

I think we should break Soda-Popper like they did to the Axtinguisher, or whatevr got a big nerf idc.



(I hate Soda-Popper users)

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Just A Magic Bagel:

I think we should break Soda-Popper like they did to the Axtinguisher, or whatevr got a big nerf idc.



(I hate Soda-Popper users)

Why destroy a weapon that can be fixed so it's still useable?? I don't get your logic.

[Overtime Times Two]

Originally posted by mishael1:

Originally posted by Just A Magic Bagel:

I think we should break Soda-Popper like they did to the Axtinguisher, or whatevr got a big nerf idc.



(I hate Soda-Popper users)

Why destroy a weapon that can be fixed so it's still useable?? I don't get your logic.

() <-----Look inside of those in my comment.

But if you want me to balance it, keep the hype. But rework it's stats, mainly the Soda-Popper has a "hyper" kind of theme in it, so just put it on another aspect of the Scout that won't affect it as it does now.

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Just A Magic Bagel:

Originally posted by mishael1:

Why destroy a weapon that can be fixed so it's still useable?? I don't get your logic.

() <-----Look inside of those in my comment.

But if you want me to balance it, keep the hype. But rework it's stats, mainly the Soda-Popper has a "hyper" kind of theme in it, so just put it on another aspect of the Scout that won't affect it as it does now.

Look at the OP, I have added a fix. Simply reduce it's fire rate.

[Dr. Raven]

You have to be careful on that Back Scatter. Currently it's underpowered, for now. But in a no crit environment like competitive that might be the edge that it needs to be on par with the stock scattergun.

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

You have to be careful on that Back Scatter. Currently it's underpowered, for now. But in a no crit environment like competitive that might be the edge that it needs to be on par with the stock scattergun.

Random crit ability has a very tiny effect on weapon power. I don't take the ability to random crit as an upside at all and ignore it in the first place.

[Dr. Raven]

Originally posted by mishael1:

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

You have to be careful on that Back Scatter. Currently it's underpowered, for now. But in a no crit environment like competitive that might be the edge that it needs to be on par with the stock scattergun.

Random crit ability has a very tiny effect on weapon power. I don't take the ability to random crit as an upside at all and ignore it in the first place.

Well it's true the weapon currently underperforming that's a better spot for it than being too good. If you shave off weapon spread, my worries are it does back attacks better, while weakening it's downside that is weak frontal attacks. It just might make it a bit too useful.

[mishael1]

Originally posted by Dr. Raven:

Originally posted by mishael1:

Random crit ability has a very tiny effect on weapon power. I don't take the ability to random crit as an upside at all and ignore it in the first place.

Well it's true the weapon currently underperforming that's a better spot for it than being too good. If you shave off weapon spread, my worries are it does back attacks better, while weakening it's downside that is weak frontal attacks. It just might make it a bit too useful.

The lack of 2 shots in the clip is a very big downside already, a downside that affects both the backscattering and front hitting. 10% spread is very much enough, and on top of that the range at which you recieve minicrits could well be increased. Really, people with half an active brain are very much capable of facing an oponent properly, and you only have 90 degrees from where you gain the minicrits.