why dont the dewmer have guns?

[An Ian]

ok so they are advanced enuth to make a robot but not a gun explain how that works

[Incunabulum]

Magic

[VisciousFishes]

All those robots and no gunpowder :)

[zeromaveric]

interestingly enough, there was a mod i saw a while back to counter this. it requires dawnguard (since it has crossbows), but you could aquire Dwemer Rifles and bullets which worked just like a crossbow

[Ilja]

I do not consider Dwemer automations as robots. They do not have systems for that.

As we can see, they are powered by soul gems. Automating these constructs is most likely a necromantic process. Instead of forcing the dead soul to animate it's original biological body, Dwemer used captured souls to animate mechanical bodies.

That does not make them robots, but animated constructs.

[zeromaveric]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ref:

I do not consider Dwemer automations as robots. They do not have systems for that.

As we can see, they are powered by soul gems. Automating these constructs is most likely a necromantic process. Instead of forcing the dead soul to animate it's original biological body, Dwemer used captured souls to animate mechanical bodies.

That does not make them robots, but animated constructs.

Fullmetal Alchemist, anyone? :) sorry, i just had to say it

[Wimpy Dandelion]

What's the point of guns if you have magic?

[Shufflecat]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ref:

I do not consider Dwemer automations as robots. They do not have systems for that.

As we can see, they are powered by soul gems. Automating these constructs is most likely a necromantic process. Instead of forcing the dead soul to animate it's original biological body, Dwemer used captured souls to animate mechanical bodies.

That does not make them robots, but animated constructs.

Doesn't realy matter. Magic or gunpowder, If you can propel a metal leg, you can propel a projectile.

Even without talking about Dwemmer advancement, pretty much every enchantment used on weapons and armour is bursting with potential for non-combat related utility. Tamriel should've had a magical industrial revolution centuries if not millenia ago, the only reason they haven't is because then it wouldn't be a medival high-fantasy setting. No Dwemmer guns is really only the tip of the iceburg. Only reason people notice that when they don't notice all the rest is because it's combat related.

[Ilja]

Hmm... possibilities of steam and several chemical components were well known in Earth far before the times of Rome. Yet it took two millenias for industrial revolution to begin.

Magic is institutionalized in Tarmriel. While potential is there - as Earth had technical potential far before it took effect -, the constant threath of war and traditions of institutions may keep the magical industrial revolution at bay for several centuries, if not millenia.

It did so in Earth, disincluding magic, but including academic traditions that kept (for example) concepts of political research away from universities, until the final quarter of 19th century.

[GR4V3 MIST4K3]

They left it out for TES XXXXI ;-)

[Shufflecat]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ref:

Hmm... possibilities of steam and several chemical components were well known in Earth far before the times of Rome. Yet it took two millenias for industrial revolution to begin.

Magic is institutionalized in Tarmriel. While potential is there - as Earth had technical potential far before it took effect -, the constant threath of war and traditions of institutions may keep the magical industrial revolution at bay for several centuries, if not millenia.

It did so in Earth, disincluding magic, but including academic traditions that kept (for example) concepts of political research away from universities, until the final quarter of 19th century.

Skyrim has cultural barriers that would hold back widspread magic use, but in the other nations like Morrowind and especially Cyrodill far less so. I could easily imagine magic being artificialy kept limited to power/aristocracy in Morrowind and Summerset, but much less so in Cyrodill or Elsewyr.

"Threat of warfare" as a serious issue is reaching IMO. That's been as constant in the real world as in Nirn, and we also know there have been as many local prosperous lulls in Tamriels history as in, say, Europe. Oblivion was explicitly at the end of one such period for Cyrodill.

In any case, the commonality of enchanted weapons, armour, and jewelry (as well as the liberal additudes of the Winterhold mages and Cyrodill Mages Guild towards selling their magic services) says that if even a modestly wealthy patron thought he could get a leg up by enchanting his grain mills, brewery equipment, boats, forges, etc, he wouldn't have much trouble getting it done. Heck, you can actually do the math on just how rich they'd have to be by looking at how much mages charge the player for services and materials.

Steam power IRL was held back first by the fact that Steel hadn't been invented yet (and also calculus and trig maths), then by the loss of the concept with the fall of the Roman empire. The Dwemmer had their special alloys and likely advanced enchanting theory which could be considered analogous (and like the Romans, they fell and took that knowledge with them), but that wouldn't stop cruder magical exploits from being explored and refined wherever they were profitable in nations where magic was culturally acceptable.

And just like in the real world that would eventually lead to those lost ideas being redeveloped. Remember that the Dwemmer had to have started out unsophisticated themselves, so the fact that they could get there is a proof for the potential of other cultures to do the same.

Alchemy is a little better, since it's widely practiced by non-mages, and is implied to be used very commonly, but in a way that makes its areas of underuse even more glaring. Why are the butcher and blacksmith in Riften the only businesspeople you ever meet across multiple games who are trying to creatively exploit it?

I don't think there are good answers to this. It's just something you have to be willing to let go rather than tie yourself in knots trying to justify.

[Ilja]

I actually enjoy this little theorical brainstorming, even if it isn't going anywhere. I took sick day from work, so pondering about Dwemer guns and magical industrial revolution in Tamriel keeps my mind occupied.

Yes. I am occasinally known to act bit weird.

[Shufflecat]

No I'm totally with you. I enjoy the heck out of these sorts of explorations, and hate it when people tell me I'm "thinking too much" or that I should "just turn my brain off" (yeah, I'm aware of the irony with my last line above), as if they think it MUST be unfun.

High five!

[TonZa]

Tell that to Dwarven Ballista Master who just dropped my health down to critical with two shot while i have capped armour. Those things hurt...

[Maloy20]

Technology advances differently based on a variety of conditions such as cultural and environmental.

As an example we have had many digital advancements here in the U.S. because we have the culture and environment that helps encourage development

but say industry, industrial advancements have slowed down here as they would have been if our nation was still pro-industry, but because there is not as much desire to have industry in our country there are less people interested in developing in industry.

Just some thoughts.


Technological advancement is almost always prompted by a need, especially if that is money.

The dwemer's needs were more adequetly met by developing magic, and working with the Heart of Lorkhan

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

I hate guns in fantasy settings.