Special Forces: How do you use them?

[Boomer99]

I tend to play with the PACT in multiplayer, and I use the Soviet VDV units. Ideally, I will send them forward at the start of a game, to secure a zone and provide resistance until I can get better land units to support them. A big benefit is that even the base VDV unit has the Mi-24A, so I have instant air support in the area.

I've tried to send my VDV units deep into enemy territory (to get behind the lines and wreak havoc on a CV, but I have not been able to get to a safe LZ and deploy the troops. Maybe this is a bad use of them?

[SivCro]

Normally the best idea is to land them near a forest that has an enemy CV hiding in it, that will flush it out in the open and disrupt their control of the zone for a while. Other than that, you just have to treat them like highly mobile infantry, don't leave them out in the open, and always put them somewhere they can use their RPGs, such as a town or a reverse slope.

Another tactic that I sometimes find works is to place them on a reverse slope where there is a road that the enemy will use to travel, behind enemy lines, and when the enemy tells their units to 'move fast', they will drive straight into the infantry and usually take some heavy losses.

I generally don't bother with the Mi-24A, it doesn't have the effectiveness that I like, I normally only use the Mi-24P and Mi-24V depending on what I think they will face.

[Chris]

Special Forces are usually played too aggressively and die. Think about what your goal is and how realistic it is. A good goal might be to secure an important forest or building at the start of the game.

Arcindrus původně napsal:

I generally don't bother with the Mi-24A, it doesn't have the effectiveness that I like, I normally only use the Mi-24P and Mi-24V depending on what I think they will face.

Ditto. The Mi-8TV and Mi-17 are both better choices, unless you desperately need an ATGM in which case the Mi-24P is a good unit. The Mi-24A (the german version costs 5 less) is good for certain situations, but if you don't need it to do more than one job all the Mi-8 variants do it for less.

[Boomer99]

Thanks for the input guys. I tested out some different chopper (different than the VDV + Mi-24A), while the price is better for the Mi-24A, I'm definitely giving up some ability. It's worth the extra points for a better chopper.

[troublmaker]

As well with what others have said it is a good idea to place them in towns along reinforcement routes. Nothing will ruin your day more than the opponent throwing some infantry there and just wiping out 100s of points worth of units.

[★ Sergeant Major/Germerica ★]

Definitely a good unit to reinforce routes. We also must remember thought that special forces are extremely good at reconnaissance. They can be used in some forward positions such as near bridges or narrow straits. Another strategy is to rush your special forces behind enemy lines to their primary base and remain in cover until you think it necessary to strike and then you can easily take out the CV in most cases.

[Boomer99]

Thanks troublmaker and Seargent Major, very good points.

[CaptainBadger]

I suggest that you try out VPZU instead of VDV, they may not come in Mi-24's, but the Mi-8's that they do come in are cheap and can provide limited fire support. Additionally, there is a lessened chance of losing 20% of your initial funding due to a few well-placed AA units as the Mi-8's are cheaper and therefore the unit pair as a whole is cheaper. Another thing is that VPZU are recon infantry, and if memory serves me correctly, the VDV are not; hence it is a good idea to use them as they can spot any potential threats quickly and move to counter or hide from them, they can also just sit and let you see what your opponent(s) bring in so you can counter accordingly.

[Boomer99]

Aurora1949 původně napsal:

I suggest that you try out VPZU instead of VDV, they may not come in Mi-24's, but the Mi-8's that they do come in are cheap and can provide limited fire support. Additionally, there is a lessened chance of losing 20% of your initial funding due to a few well-placed AA units as the Mi-8's are cheaper and therefore the unit pair as a whole is cheaper. Another thing is that VPZU are recon infantry, and if memory serves me correctly, the VDV are not; hence it is a good idea to use them as they can spot any potential threats quickly and move to counter or hide from them, they can also just sit and let you see what your opponent(s) bring in so you can counter accordingly.

I don't believe the VDV's are recon, so that is something to consider. I'm testing out various SF units, so I'll definitely add the VPZU to my list.

[ŊЏ | Shifu]

VDV's are no recon - and they're not that good against infantry, so I would really take the 4VPZU over them ... Use them infiltrate enemy lines (come from the rear or so), spot CVs and then kill 'em with rocket arty - that's how you can use them best especially due to the fact that it's almost impossible to detect recon infantry if you don't know where they are.

[Boomer99]

ŊЏ | Shifu původně napsal:

VDV's are no recon - and they're not that good against infantry, so I would really take the 4VPZU over them ... Use them infiltrate enemy lines (come from the rear or so), spot CVs and then kill 'em with rocket arty - that's how you can use them best especially due to the fact that it's almost impossible to detect recon infantry if you don't know where they are.

Good info, thanks!

[Boomer99]

Okay, I've been doing some testing with various PACT special forces, and looking at the stats, the VDV + Mi-24A looks a little better than the VYSADKARI + Mi-8T. The two benefits I see are that the VDV have better accuracy with their anti-tank weapons, and the Mi-24A carries ATGM, whereas the Mi-8T only carries rockets. The major downside is the point cost difference. So, it comes down to what I want to use them for I guess.

Looking at the SPETSNAZ, it appears to be the best of them all, and I can pick either the Mi-8 or the Mi-24...plus they are a RECON unit!

What Special Forces do you guys use when playing the NATO side?

EDIT: disregard my comment about the Mi-8 not having an ATGM, I just didn't see the Mi-8TVK.

[SivCro]

Boomer99 původně napsal:

What Special Forces do you guys use when playing the NATO side?

Delta Force are probably my favourite, mainly for the 10 Accuracy with their LAW. The downside is that none of the helicopters they come with are armed, so they are only transports. But I find if they are placed right, they usually don't need any fire support.

Such as putting some of them around your CV in a forest.

[CaptainBadger]

Boomer99 původně napsal:

Okay, I've been doing some testing with various PACT special forces, and looking at the stats, the VDV + Mi-24A looks a little better than the VYSADKARI + Mi-8T. The two benefits I see are that the VDV have better accuracy with their anti-tank weapons, and the Mi-24A carries ATGM, whereas the Mi-8T only carries rockets. The major downside is the point cost difference. So, it comes down to what I want to use them for I guess.

Looking at the SPETSNAZ, it appears to be the best of them all, and I can pick either the Mi-8 or the Mi-24...plus they are a RECON unit!

What Special Forces do you guys use when playing the NATO side?

EDIT: disregard my comment about the Mi-8 not having an ATGM, I just didn't see the Mi-8TVK.

Let's see.

VDV vs. Vysadkari: No real competition here, I think that VDV are nice, but in the grand scheme of things I will pick Vysadkari over VDV as they come in the 0T-64 SKOT transports and you get more of them. I don't use the Vysadkari as Spec-Ops simply because they are good, but not that good. VPZU are always going to be my Spec-Ops.

Spetsnaz: Crap. Don't get me wrong, they are really good against infantry, but if they run into any kind of armoured vehicle, they will die, quickly. This is because, if you have not noticed, they carry Napalm launchers with an HE rating of 3 and no AT rating to speak of. This means that while they may dominate in the forest against other infantry, they will fail utterly if they run into any kind of armoured vehicle, and seeing how people will almost always have some kind of APC or tank in the woods, this makes them pretty much useless, even against gun-armed AA. I used them once, watched them faceplant against three basic M113's, and have never used them again.

NATO SF: Delta Force, all day every day. These suckers are some of the best SF in the game, hands down; just don't use them with the Chinook, it's too large and is easily spotted whereas the Hueys and Blackhawks they can come in are much smaller and have enough range to get from one side of the map to the other.

EDIT: Oh, and one other thing. The Mi-8TVK is nice to have for its ATGM's, but these are some of the worst ATGM's you can get, and the chopper only get's four of these low-velocity shotgun-missiles. I personally use the base Mi-8 variant as the idea is to insert the troops without alerting my opponent and therefore allow me to use them as a trump-card later in the game. I only call in the armed Mi-8's if I have the points lying around and I plan to fly them all the way around the map again to use as fire-support for my primary battalion. Even then, I only really use the two variants that come with the rocket pods, not the ATGM's, this is because the rocket pods have very impressive infantry-murdering power, especially with the 122mm pods, and they can be used to stun tanks and lower morale.

[Your Neighbour]

Aurora1949 původně napsal:

I suggest that you try out VPZU instead of VDV, they may not come in Mi-24's, but the Mi-8's that they do come in are cheap and can provide limited fire support. Additionally, there is a lessened chance of losing 20% of your initial funding due to a few well-placed AA units as the Mi-8's are cheaper and therefore the unit pair as a whole is cheaper. Another thing is that VPZU are recon infantry, and if memory serves me correctly, the VDV are not; hence it is a good idea to use them as they can spot any potential threats quickly and move to counter or hide from them, they can also just sit and let you see what your opponent(s) bring in so you can counter accordingly.

That's a pretty nice point... never thought of that!

VPZU seems more versitile in overall performance!

[untilted]

actually i use spec ops in two different scenarios: airborne spec ops for infiltration, ground based spec ops for frontline work.

when deploying spec ops for infiltration there's no real reason to be impatient. instead of dropping the spec ops right next to the enemy reinforcement area, better drop them a few km out and walk the rest by foot (using forests and hedges). sneak them up and try to keep them out of harms way. and as shifu already said: if you have artillery assets at your disposal - use them.
i prefer VPZU in mi-17 and deltas in blackhawks for this.

for frontline work i use fernspäher (recon/anti-infantry) and spetsnaz (anti-infantry/recon) - pretty much as specialized shocktroops.