Any suggestions as to why the bots won't move onto the finale chopper?

[Deep Thunder]

In a nutshell, this is what the nav looks like leading up to the chopper.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=436797686

And as you can see, Coach is down there (by the red highlighted boxes) doing something...he decided to go down the only ladder leading up to the rooftop in hopes of finding his way inside the chopper.

Not sure what other details to put here. The credits and its entities work functionally as intended. It's just that bots refuse to walk onto this chopper. Any ideas on why this happening? Any suggestions to make it work?

And questions about this setup, go right ahead and ask.

[For what it is worth, the bots do walk onto the chopper, only when I make myself hang on the other side of the chopper]

[AlwaysToast]

Is the nav inside the chopper marked: RESCUE_VEHICLE?

Does the director know the escape vehicle is ready?

Do you have a nav_blocker over it, and is the nav being unblocked when the vehicle is ready?

If none of those are the problem:
Put an info_target inside the chopper over the nav. Give it the name: nav_flow_target.
This will make them try to reach that info_target as long as the nav isn’t blocked.

[Deep Thunder]

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Is the nav inside the chopper marked: RESCUE_VEHICLE?

Yes.

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Does the director know the escape vehicle is ready?

What do you mean? What is a surefire way of knowing if this?

If it helps any, I hear the escape vehicle music playing, so maybe it does.

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Do you have a nav_blocker over it,

Initially, yes. The entire outside is covered.

Originally posted by AlwaysTaost:

and is the nav being unblocked when the vehicle is ready?

Yes it is, considering the nav doesn't show up as SURVIVOR_BLOCKED, when highlighted over the rescue_vehicle. And the bots wouldn't be able to navigate the outside period.

I will try that info_target and let you know how it goes.

[AlwaysToast]

Originally posted by Deep Thunder:

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Does the director know the escape vehicle is ready?

What do you mean? What is a surefire way of knowing if this?

Send an Imput from something (usually a relay or trigger) to the trigger_finale, with an input of: FinaleEscapeVehicleReadyForSurvivors

[AlwaysToast]

Also in your screenshot, the piece of nav you are pointed at, is there something there for the bots to actually stand on? (like a clip brush) Or is that a gap they have to jump?

[Deep Thunder]

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Send an Imput from something (usually a relay or trigger) to the trigger_finale, with an input of: FinaleEscapeVehicleReadyForSurvivors

Yup, this would be the input I am using.

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Also in your screenshot, the piece of nav you are pointed at, is there something there for the bots to actually stand on? (like a clip brush) Or is that a gap they have to jump?

It is a clip brush.

Originally, it was a gap they had to jump, so I eventually put a clip brush underneath.

[Deep Thunder]

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Put an info_target inside the chopper over the nav. Give it the name: nav_flow_target.
This will make them try to reach that info_target as long as the nav isn’t blocked.

I did exactly all of that. Did not work. Not sure what I was supposed to do via inputs/outputs, so I just left it as is.

[AlwaysToast]

The info_target doesn’t need any inputs/outputs or flags. It should just work if you use that specific name.

Is your nav_trouble_report showing any errors?

Turn on:
z_debug 1
z_show_flow_distance 1
z_show_flow_delta 1

Is the nav in the chopper the end of the nav?
(meaning one square has both numbers of the flow distance maxed out like: 4521/4521)
If not there is a problem.

If you have a properly set up info_target, it should be the nav under the info_target.

Do all* the arrows lead into the chopper?
*There will be one in the chopper pointing out, which is the nav square which is the end of the nav (since it can’t point at itself).

If the arrows outside aren’t leading to the chopper, there is some larger problem.


Random ideas:
You could mark the nav that gets unblocked Transient (Telling the nav Sometimes it’s there and sometimes it is not). This usually isn’t needed, but it might do something.

Why is the nav inside the chopper 4 strips instead of one square?

Your screenshot shows the info for the nav outside the chopper, which the bots have to cross, not the nav inside the chopper, which the bots have to want to get to. It could be ether one that is causing the problem.

[Deep Thunder]

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Is your nav_trouble_report showing any errors?

Yes:

Overlap check found 11 areas
Climb links from stairs check found 3 areas
Connection to overlapping area check found 15 areas
Long horizontal connection check found 25 areas
Floating/interpenetrating world check found 1 areas
Short vertical one way connection check found 1 areas
Disconnected ladder check found 8 ladders
Overlapping ladder check found 2 ladders
Selected 63 troubled areas

Those are the errors only, I didn't copy and paste the checks that were passed.

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Is the nav in the chopper the end of the nav?

(meaning one square has both numbers of the flow distance maxed out like: 4521/4521)
If not there is a problem.

Nope.

(I'll use x/y as a reference (to something like 4521/4521) to make things easier.)

The squares inside of the chopper (as well as some of the squares that precede it) do not match. X shows up usually around 50 integers less than y. The rest of the nav though are maxed out.

Also, not sure if you didn't realize it or if my nav is just that bad, but x shows up as a negative (for all of my nav)? Like -x/y?

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Do all* the arrows lead into the chopper?
*There will be one in the chopper pointing out, which is the nav square which is the end of the nav (since it can’t point at itself).

From the looks of it, it doesn't look they do? Considering I decided to split up the nav, I have no clue what the verdict would be. You would be the better judge:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437840348

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437840334

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437840322

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Random ideas:
You could mark the nav that gets unblocked Transient (Telling the nav Sometimes it’s there and sometimes it is not). This usually isn’t needed, but it might do something.

I suppose it's worth a try. Just out of curiosity, what other scenarios might this "Transient" mark be useful/needed?

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Why is the nav inside the chopper 4 strips instead of one square?

I thought maybe the bots would have a better chance of detecting the RESCUE_VEHICLE if I split up the nav. Didn't hurt to try. And I don't know otherwise.

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Your screenshot shows the info for the nav outside the chopper, which the bots have to cross, not the nav inside the chopper, which the bots have to want to get to. It could be ether one that is causing the problem.

Not sure if you were implying confusion or a question, but I hope those screenshots clarified whichever it was.

[Deep Thunder]

Edit: I just realized that all of the yellow arrows point towards the very center of map. Absolutely no where near towards the chopper. Why did this happen, and what can I do to have it point towards the chopper?

Edit: I also marked the nav as transient, and unfortunately it didn't do anything for the bots.

[AlwaysToast]

You should try to fix all those errors. But for this problem: Do a nav_trouble_report for each one:
nav_trouble_report overlapping
nav_trouble_report long horizontal connections
Etc

If any of them include your rescue vehicle or the ramp, that could be the problem with how the bots walk.

If any of the nav errors are along what should be the escape route, that could be causing problems with the flow.

Flow not going to the Rescue Vehicle:
The arrows, show you the direction of the Nav Flow from the beginning of the map to the end. In a Finale sometimes they point at the finale_trigger (or button that activates it), but that should change to once the rescue vehicle arrives.

When you run nav_analyze the beginning and end point of your map is auto detected. If you haven’t run nav_analyze in a while that might be why.

You can also use nav_recompute_flow while changing stuff to see if the flow starts moving around.

There are too many possible reasons why the rescue vehicle may not be detected as the end point of the map. General stuff: Check where the nav flow is going, and see if there is anything wrong (like a nav square got labeled as rescue vehicle by accident). Check the rescue vehicle for anything being wrong (like does the vehicle work and the end credits roll if all the bots are dead).

[Deep Thunder]

Strangely enough...I had to fire all of my custom scripts in order for the bots to finally walk onto the chopper. Reason being, I've been firing the chopper rescue from the get-go, which now I know does not work. Nonetheless, there were quite a few things in here I learned.

If you wouldn't mind answering, is my entire nav broken? Every square I highlight with the cursor is showing up as "DAMAGING", in the yellow text. I'm not sure what that means or if I should be concerned. Google didn't come up with anything either.

Also, for some reason, *all* of my nav "flow numbers" are unmatched. Like the example you gave earlier, instead of 4521/4521, they would show up as -4421/4521. The navigation seems to work just fine anyway, so should I still be concerned?

[AlwaysToast]

Nav Flow (you could just read the official explanation) is expressed as numbers: Units moved towards Goal (end point)/Units moved away from Start (beginning point).

So a negative for the first number just means you are moving away from the Goal. The exact start point should have 0/0 (You haven’t moved towards the goal or away from the start). The exact end point should be X/X (because the goal is the max number, and you have moved that far away from the start). Those are the only two points on the nav where the numbers will ever match up. Sometimes I haven’t been able to find the exact start or end if the nav is rather complex in those areas.

-9999/-9999 means something is broken if inside the walkable area (where players can reach). It can also occure without being broken the area is outside the walkable area (where only zombies can go/usually where they come from in a finale).

Generally you want to play the finale to find out if the rescue vehicle works. I didn’t realize you were just firing the trigger. You can use director_short_finale sometimes to speed things up.

Damaging isn’t even on the list of markings. I’ve never actually seen it pop up myself. Do you happen to have a trigger_hurt or something like that over large parts of the map?

You may have hit: nav_select_damaging_areas : Adds all damaging areas to the selected set
It’s in the cvars list. If you were trying to type nav_select_blah… and made a mistake.

You should be able to clear that flag… but I’m not sure how.

[Deep Thunder]

Thanks for the info, a lot of things here make more sense now. I'll be sure to look at those references at some point.

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Damaging isn’t even on the list of markings. I’ve never actually seen it pop up myself.

For proof, here ya are:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=439404278

Originally posted by AlwaysToast:

Do you happen to have a trigger_hurt or something like that over large parts of the map?

My map is filled with triggers that either hurt or kill the players/zombies based on specific events. If I were to pinpoint it, it's probably the trigger_hurt I have boxed around my entire map. If that wouldn't be it, then it's probably coming from another trigger_hurt.

[AlwaysToast]

It’s probably from the trigger_hurt(s) then. So I don’t think it’s anything to worry about as it seems to be properly marked.