Dustbowl: what's next?

[76561198071078682]

I have a rather ambitious Dustbowl 2 in mind.

I guess/feel I should make a game between Dustbowl and Dustbowl 2, a kind of transition not related to Dustbowl.
Why not discuss about it dear players?

Let's fear you a bit :D

I would like to make a medieval survival game set during Black Death.
{LINK REMOVED}https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

Take Dustbowl features, improve and add some.

Let's discuss about it all together! ;)
Don't be shy! :D
As I already said here and there, I'll do my next games with players, for players. ;)

[Ottofyre]

I actually think that would be a very interesting setting for a survival game.

I would like to see a more tactical and less reflex based combat system, but I'm okay if you stick with the system you have in Dustbowl.

I do have a question. I think I read somewhere way back when I first tried the Dustbowl demo that you've been struggling with the limitations of the engine it's using. I'm curious if you're planning on moving to a new engine and, if so, if you've decided which you'll be using?

[76561198071078682]

Thx for your answer Hiirazz.

Good to hear you like the idea.

Here is a quick tweet/picture just for fun (I have in mind a more 16bit/Amiga-ish design):
https://twitter.com/DustbowlAGS/status/685872944581586944
And a poll on twitter:
https://twitter.com/DustbowlAGS/status/685872454678478849

About combat, I'm not sure what to do.
I guess there are 3 ways:
- keep it and improve it
- turn more arcade (maybe almost realtime)
- turn more tactical (I have something in mind based on fight movements/combos. I think it's original and could be interesting)
Not sure what you guyz would prefer.
Myself, I could be up for something more arcade/realtime.
Left mouse button to attack (different parts of the body) and right to defend with a shield (one of your body part).

About engine, I would keep AGS for that game (and move to Unity later).
Now, I know more about the AGS limitations (and some workarounds), so I could think the game with that in mind.
Also, AGS has improved a bit and is still evolving.

Hope to hear from you soon guyz ;)

[PotatoHax101]

I think there should be two modes: a Normal mode for people who want story and all that stuff and Hardcore where you are tested to see how far you can get through the game without dying with some extra challenges.
Just an idea ;D

[Spooky Skeleton]

I think the comat system could definetly be changed, more strategically, for example if you crit a limb then maybe they move slower and have higher chance of missing. Each kind of weapon has perks and problems. Like pistols have a decentr rate of fire and a decent damage and decent accuracy, shotguns do great damage but bad rate of fire and accuracy(etc). The story I would mostly let you and the other guy handle, but more of the tribe under the ground would be nice to see. We didnt see much of them and it would be cool to see more. I liked the crafting system and money system, and bring back hot dog man.

[Hobbes]

More tactical for sure. But let me think about the whole thing in depth because the Black Death idea is -really- interesting as a concept, I'll put together a structured post with my ideas in a few hours once I've had some coffee.

[76561198071078682]

Thx for your feedbacks guyz.
Combat and difficulty level are definitely things to improve.

Hobbes is having the biggest (blue) cup of coffee you never seen!
Let's contact the Guinness World Records! :D
Ofc I'm joking, but I'm really looking forward to read you Hobbes coz I know you are an experienced gamer. ;)

[Hobbes]

*wide grin* Think of me like an Ent. A lot of what I say takes a long time to say, so I make sure it's at least worth reading when I put fingers to keys.

So, Black Plague based apocalypse scenario opens up all kinds of interesting horror scenarios, not to mention it also gives you room to play with a lot of mythos that hooks into the kind of body horror that the Black Plague can inflict (so think Lovecraft and the like in this instance).

You've also got a rich seam of crafting in the fact that you can effectively use alchemy as your primary means of attack, defense and utility, and in a lot of cases, solving quests. Alchemy could be an entire system all to itself if time was invested in it with players gathering components and then testing them for properties and working out how to combine them into functional medicines.

During said era, Religion and Cultist behaviour was rife, so there's plenty of options to explore things like factions who want to purge the unclean and burn anyone bearing anything even approximating plague-like signs and then at the opposite end, Cultists who worship the plague as some kind of great cleansing, washing away the impurities of the flesh (this isn't too far removed from what happened in reality either).

In terms of the worldbuilding, I'd be more interested in seeing this one staged around say, a city or a few towns, so the game feels very intimate, perhaps the player has to ferry medicines between key locations and gets wrapped up in the machinations of the politics of the region, or if it's a single city with lots of explorable locations, gets embroiled in the plots of that given city. That city then could have a -ton- of depth with lots of nooks and crannies with lots of lore stuffed into it, with a lot of grime and squalor depicting just how horrible the plague has become, and how badly it has hit some of the poorer areas.

In terms of combat - more tactical, easily. I'd do away with the reaction test in favour of a more Fallout 2 style "to hit" chance with players having the ability to aim at body parts, trading a reduced chance for the ability to apply debuffs to the opponent (so hitting the arms reduces damage output, hitting the head reduces accuracy, etc). Give more options for risk/reward, and let the player decide how much chance they want to take, with equipment factoring in on just how risky it might be.

If it were to be in a single city, one other final consideration is that the player might have a townhouse of their own, where they manage their alchemy, and between quests pick up flavour stuff like mail, and update their equipment and the like. Over time this townhouse can be personalised and improved, giving the player a little bit of ownership in the game on top of customising their player.

That's just quick thoughts off the top of my head.

[Spooky Skeleton]

Originally posted by Hobbes:

i would agree exept I would like to note that it would be less magicky and more like the dustbowl original/fallout new vegas/fallout 4 crafting, collecting components to make items like health items. You know more post apocolyptic(which is what life was like during the black plague). I also think that the factions sounds cool, you could definetly expand on some of the lore of the game. I don't know if you wanna do like actual Europe or like some kind of thing like a thousand years after today. Like everyone's forgoten about our current world and various events have led to the plague. Technology is all broken and not even used. Most people see it as trash. All the cities are ghost towns with nothing but plants. People use same technology as middle ages. "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it!" That quote would fit in well with this setting. You could try to expand the lore, because I think that games that have some of the most lore are the best because everyone has there own playthrough. Some little details like notes and stuff can really make the game more "alive" even though there's no people. Like in fallout 4 there's a house with a computer about a guy who's wife died and he lost her locket in the lake outside. Eventually he dove in trying to find it and drowned with the locket in his hand. Or in fallout 3 with skeletons holding each other as they died. Little things like that make the world seem more living. Show how the black death really affected everyones lives. You could show some deeper meaning. Like when mankind is on the brink of extinction, its not about some dumb plague, people will survive the plague. Mankind's only true weakness is itself. Like the factions are fighting and they're willing to kill everyone inculding themselves just to "win". Like people want to take over the last haven safe from plague that's where all the rich have blocked themselves off. Then that's where they send in blankets filled with diseases, to kill them so that they can weaken them to storm the headquerters. I think that this way you can still enjoy the middle ages technology, but also make history go anyway you want.

[PotatoHax101]

(Sorry if someone else already said this) I think you should have to keep track of your "Condition " or whatever you want to call it and in the normal mode you should be able to make a sort of cure for the disease but on hardcore mode you can only slow it down which will make the player be a lot more carful about he/she aproches and to burn every body they come across, not to cut themselves or get scrathes or anything like that. I hope this is a good idea :D

[76561198071078682]

Thx for that very solid post Hobbes.
I guess our ideas are close.

Alchemy is a very good idea, I didn't think about it.
In fact, I would like to avoid fantasy, but as alchemy is "real", I guess I can include it in a way.
Still, I think the game should be playable without using it (or only small stuffs like the plants used in the mask, and it's not really alchemy).
A bit like the common rpg: you can play like a "magician" but also like a "warrior" or a "thief".

Btw, I'm thinking about proposing often 3 ways to succeed in a quest: violence / smart (puzzle) / social (reputation / help / money).

Faction is definetely something I wanna add.
And depending of your "alignment", you can deal or not with some factions.
Those factions could be as you said Religion and Cultist.
But also "army"/"authorities" and "organized bandits".

World building: i'm thinking about cross Europe but not sure.
Could be from North to South (south is the origin).

Combat: ofc I'm up for more depth but I want to keep it fast paced.
In fact, even if I have several ideas, combat is my biggest question.

Townhouse: I like the idea but it's secondary imo.

[76561198071078682]

Nice post too Spooky Skeleton, thx :)

I want to keep real medieval age (even if something else is tempting): so Europe around 1350.

I like the "notes" idea: ppl who don't care can just don't read them.

"Show how the black death really affected everyones lives.": this!

"the factions are fighting and they're willing to kill everyone inculding themselves just to "win".": this again hehe!

[76561198071078682]

Again, interesting point Experience Potato, thx.

"Condition":
You'll have to take care of your airtight "suit" and be sure to get enough fresh plants for your nose/mask.

We could also imagine to strengthen the suit with some metal plates on some parts (protection during fight).

Burn corpse is interesting but I wonder if it should be a malus if you don't.

[Hobbes]

If you're going the faction route, I'd -really- suggest putting the setting inside a city, and then really digging deep into the factions fighting over control of that city, with the plague ravaging that city. Why? Because you can go into real, deep detail with the politics and infighting of the factions within the city, and you can go into the locations at a street level, and even under the streets (think cellars and sewers) as well as over the streets (think rooftops, attics, bellfries) which gives you a lot of variety in location without needing to cover a wide space geographically.

This allows you to remain entirely consistent within the theme of the game, but at the same time add a ton of variety, you can then add places where herbs grow within the city, and preferred places to gather specific herbs as well as places to develop those much needed medicines and cures that various factions might demand of you, or more underhandedly - poisons and toxins that may alter the balance of power in the city.

Think of the alchemy perhaps as a backstory, something that is the background beat, and then the player has their own ways of solving various challenges and quests as they arise. It would be a good way to tie together an ongoing crafting system and a way to say, modify weapons with various status effects as well as improve armour and the like, which would add a layer of depth to the game, and perhaps allow for players to make some significant personalisation choices.

[PotatoHax101]

Originally posted by Hobbes:

If you're going the faction route, I'd -really- suggest putting the setting inside a city, and then really digging deep into the factions fighting over control of that city, with the plague ravaging that city. Why? Because you can go into real, deep detail with the politics and infighting of the factions within the city, and you can go into the locations at a street level, and even under the streets (think cellars and sewers) as well as over the streets (think rooftops, attics, bellfries) which gives you a lot of variety in location without needing to cover a wide space geographically.

This allows you to remain entirely consistent within the theme of the game, but at the same time add a ton of variety, you can then add places where herbs grow within the city, and preferred places to gather specific herbs as well as places to develop those much needed medicines and cures that various factions might demand of you, or more underhandedly - poisons and toxins that may alter the balance of power in the city.

Think of the alchemy perhaps as a backstory, something that is the background beat, and then the player has their own ways of solving various challenges and quests as they arise. It would be a good way to tie together an ongoing crafting system and a way to say, modify weapons with various status effects as well as improve armour and the like, which would add a layer of depth to the game, and perhaps allow for players to make some significant personalisation choices.

How many fingers do you have Hobbes? xD I am very impressed!

[Spooky Skeleton]

also talk about the plague doctors. They're total bullcrap. I read about this one doctor that shoved oranges up people's asses and was a fruit vendor before the black plague, most had no actual medical training and were out to make a quick buck