Did they/Will they ever fix the ending?

[Crazy Alchemy]

Spoiler Warning

Do Not Read Past This Unless You've Seen The Ending Or Don't Mind if It's Spoiled


You have been warned




Final Take Here

Originally posted by Red ♥♥♥♥:

In regards to the arguments given by most people defending the ending
I think it's a matter of rationalization due to bias on the part of people who loved the game so much they were willing to ignore it's flaws and try to explain them away rather than acknowledging why the ending is flawed.

I know a thing or two about the nature of such bias, I've seen it everywhere from abusive relationships to Star Wars fans who couldn't initially confront what George Lucas had done to the series due to their love of the earlier films and franchise.

Since I'm not emotionally invested in the story, I have a more dispassionate position to examine the evidence.

As I understand it, in one ending Max discovers a new power at the exact moment that it's convenient to sacrifice her friend and possible lover, and creates a Grandfather Paradox which violates the established rules of Time Travel up until that point and furthermore would negate itself as an action since it would cancel out her ability to go back and stop herself in the first place. It also goes against Max's established character to accept either outcome and no effort is made to find another option.

One ending is longer and contains a happier ending for everyone but Max's best friend and it has it's own musical number, while the other is short and mostly focused on wreckage and merely rehashes an earlier song, as if the developers had a canon ending in mind and didn't want to put much effort into the alternate ending.

(edit: it has since been called to my attention that this song has some sort of significance to the characters from an earlier scene, so I no longer consider the music a valid point of criticism)

Moreover both endings cancel out all of your prior choices regarding everyone else, one by destroying everyone and the other by negating the timeline where you made the choices, both endings running contrary to all other concequences, making the final choice the only one that actually matters in the end.

Furthermore as I understand it even though they are completely unintentional, there are problematic antihomosexual and antifeminist tropes that add an unfortunate undertone in the narrative, the cliche homosexual death scene on the one hand and the all too typical trope of choosing to be together being the selfish choice, in this instance resulting in the death of everyone else you cared about. And in both narratives, the all too common theme that a woman with power should just accept the hand fate dealt her and not try to change her destriny. Like I said, both of these tropes are obviously not intended to be part of the narrative, but they surface here nonetheless, like they so often do in media.

Finally, the ending represents a common sci-fi trope with time travel, which is that time travel is bad and only causes disaster so it shouldn't ever be used, except for that one last time when one final decision can magically fix everything all in one go. At the very least, more interesting things could have been done with it, and as I understand it Max very nearly encountered one of the more interesting possibilities when she encountered herself in a dream state, but as usual lazy writing cancelled it out.

So all things considered, I would rather not become invested in this game, because I would know the entire time I played it that every decision I would make would be canceled out and the ending would contain all of these problems, at least from my perspective as a dispassionate outside observer who'd followed the controversy for a bit.

[Palatine Katinka]

The ending isn't really about trying to get everything right. I think it's more about accepting that not everything is going to be right and sometimes you just have to be happy with what you've got and not worry about what could have been. Which funnily enough applies quite well to the ending itself, it's not quite right but we'll have to learn to cope with what we got!

I wouldn't worry too much about the ending though. The rest of the game is still great. It had me hooked, constantly checking for updates on when the next episode would be out. Hell, I'm still hooked on talking about it, lurking here every day...

[Kemando]

Spoiling yourself the ending was a terrible decision. Anything that spoils any ploy developments for this game is just not good, and I feel bad for you. :|

Also, this is the best storytelling game I've had the pleasure of experiencing, and it is my favorite game, probably of all time. The ending didn't change that. Take that how you will.

[Crazy Alchemy]

Originally posted by Palatine Katinka:

The ending isn't really about trying to get everything right. I think it's more about accepting that not everything is going to be right and sometimes you just have to be happy with what you've got and not worry about what could have been. Which funnily enough applies quite well to the ending itself, it's not quite right but we'll have to learn to cope with what we got!

I wouldn't worry too much about the ending though. The rest of the game is still great. It had me hooked, constantly checking for updates on when the next episode would be out. Hell, I'm still hooked on talking about it, lurking here every day...

I heard it's basically "Murder your best friend or kill everyone and don't even try to figure it out"

And if you don't choose to murder your best friend that's basically the bad ending, while if you choose to murder your best friend and possible love interest you get the "good end"

But both ending don't make sense, they're arbitrary and forced and leave people with a sense that they've been cheated out of the ending, besides which the "good end" has an unintentional and unfortunate anti-homosexual undertone and a disempowering nearly antifeminist message about not using power and submiting to fate, and it supposedly goes against the main character's established persona to just accept the ending she's handed.

Besides which the ending breaks the rules the game established.

These are all compelling criticisms I've read about the ending and my impression from a video I saw mind you I haven't played the game, but I probably won't buy it now where I would have before.

[Samael]

Short answer: no and no.

Long answer: Absolutely f*cking no.
Dontnod have first shown they're not even interested in making a proper second choice in the first place, apart from the one that they feel is canon (hence that 2min, poor excuse for an ending) and certainly won't be alrtering/adding content afterwards. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see it happening.

[Crazy Alchemy]

Originally posted by Samael:

Short answer: no and no.

Long answer: Absolutely f*cking no.
Dontnod have first shown they're not even interested in making a proper second choice in the first place, apart from the one that they feel is canon (hence that 2min, poor excuse for an ending) and certainly won't be alrtering/adding content afterwards. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see it happening.

Well that sucks because it would be an interesting DLC or alternate ending for not abusing your powers, and if they ever made a movie adaptation it would be the stronger ending.

Like how about a chapter six, where she chooses after the canon ending to refuse to accept it or something, and goes back to try to fix it again?

[Samael]

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

Originally posted by Samael:

Short answer: no and no.

Long answer: Absolutely f*cking no.
Dontnod have first shown they're not even interested in making a proper second choice in the first place, apart from the one that they feel is canon (hence that 2min, poor excuse for an ending) and certainly won't be alrtering/adding content afterwards. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see it happening.

Well that sucks because it would be an interesting DLC or alternate ending for not abusing your powers, and if they ever made a movie adaptation it would be the stronger ending.

Like how about a chapter six, where she chooses after the canon ending to refuse to accept it or something, and goes back to try to fix it again?

There are a million ways to fix it, even without touching the endings in the game for the people that liked them. And it's been mentioned that people would be even willing to help them fund a sixth episode but they aren’t interested.

What p*sses me off the most is that DN didn't even bother to address the whole controversy, even if it's a simple "F*ck everyone who didn't like it, that's all you're getting".They just stuck their head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening (my favorite part is when one DN member twitted how he's surprised at some professional reviews slamming the game. Suprised, really? maybe reading the forums would've given him a clue).

Damn shame too, they were slowly becoming one of my favorite dev teams.

[Crazy Alchemy]

It's a shame that they squandered all that good will they were building and alienated so many of the fans they were gaining by making the ending a big inconsistent fallacy and a middle finger to so many of the fans, with antigay and antifeminist undertones to boot.

[Palatine Katinka]

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

And if you don't choose to murder your best friend that's basically the bad ending, while if you choose to murder your best friend and possible love interest you get the "good end"

That's maybe your opinion, or the opinion you have been told to have. I see it differently. Frankly I don't give a flying ♥♥♥♥ which ending is longer and don't think there is a intrinsically good or bad option. They are intentionally both good and bad choices. From my point of view the 'good' ending would be the one that shows our main characters still together with hope for a happy future while we are left uncertain about everyone else. (Note: We don't know who is or isn't dead. It is intentionally left open, they could easily have shown us that everyone was definitely dead if that was what they wanted.)

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

But both ending don't make sense, they're arbitrary and forced and leave people with a sense that they've been cheated out of the ending, besides which the "good end" has an unintentional and unfortunate anti-homosexual undertone and a disempowering nearly antifeminist message about not using power and submiting to fate, and it supposedly goes against the main character's established persona to just accept the ending she's handed.

If you don't like that ending then don't choose it. The other ending is an equally valid choice that just under half the players chose last time I looked. It's not like the 'Did you hurt Frank's dog?' statistic where you have almost nobody hurting the dog bar a few people curious about what actually happens if you do. The final choice is close which I feel shows they actually did quite well if their intention was to have a balanced dilemma. I really don't understand people who start by assuming they have to choose one option because it's 'right' and then go on to complain about how it doesn't fit their view. That's why there is another option! If you prefer it, choose it. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

However, I feel you should play the game yourself and draw your own conclusions about the end choice and, more importantly, the rest of the game rather than simply going by what other people say.

[RepairCat]

The endings really shouldn´t influence your decision to get it or not. They´re not as terrible as some on the forums might make you believe. Yes, they´re not perfect, but they don´t spoil the rest of the ride (which is awesome). At least for me.

[Crazy Alchemy]

Originally posted by Palatine Katinka:

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

And if you don't choose to murder your best friend that's basically the bad ending, while if you choose to murder your best friend and possible love interest you get the "good end"

That's maybe your opinion, or the opinion you have been told to have. I see it differently. Frankly I don't give a flying ♥♥♥♥ which ending is longer and don't think there is a intrinsically good or bad option. They are intentionally both good and bad choices. From my point of view the 'good' ending would be the one that shows our main characters still together with hope for a happy future while we are left uncertain about everyone else. (Note: We don't know who is or isn't dead. It is intentionally left open, they could easily have shown us that everyone was definitely dead if that was what they wanted.)

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

But both ending don't make sense, they're arbitrary and forced and leave people with a sense that they've been cheated out of the ending, besides which the "good end" has an unintentional and unfortunate anti-homosexual undertone and a disempowering nearly antifeminist message about not using power and submiting to fate, and it supposedly goes against the main character's established persona to just accept the ending she's handed.

If you don't like that ending then don't choose it. The other ending is an equally valid choice that just under half the players chose last time I looked. It's not like the 'Did you hurt Frank's dog?' statistic where you have almost nobody hurting the dog bar a few people curious about what actually happens if you do. The final choice is close which I feel shows they actually did quite well if their intention was to have a balanced dilemma. I really don't understand people who start by assuming they have to choose one option because it's 'right' and then go on to complain about how it doesn't fit their view. That's why there is another option! If you prefer it, choose it. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

However, I feel you should play the game yourself and draw your own conclusions about the end choice and, more importantly, the rest of the game rather than simply going by what other people say.

What if both endings suck and one is a fallacious contradiction?

In one you murder your best friend in the other you murder all of your other friends and no effort is made to find a way out of it.

[Crazy Alchemy]

Originally posted by Ironheade:

The endings really shouldn´t influence your decision to get it or not. They´re not as terrible as some on the forums might make you believe. Yes, they´re not perfect, but they don´t spoil the rest of the ride (which is awesome). At least for me.

I don't want to get invested into the story if that's the way it ends for the same reason I didn't want to sink time in Mass Effect 3 after finding out about how it ends.

[Palatine Katinka]

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

In one you murder your best friend in the other you murder all of your other friends and no effort is made to find a way out of it.

How do you know everyone else dies? We see eight bodies, none of whom are recognisable characters and they had hours to get to safety. They deliberately left it open to your own interpretation as to how bad it was.

[Samael]

Originally posted by Palatine Katinka:

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

In one you murder your best friend in the other you murder all of your other friends and no effort is made to find a way out of it.

How do you know everyone else dies? We see eight bodies, none of whom are recognisable characters and they had hours to get to safety. They deliberately left it open to your own interpretation as to how bad it was.

It's possible people survived but considering how big the tornado was (F6, was it?) you can bet a lot of people got killed.

[Crazy Alchemy]

Originally posted by Palatine Katinka:

Originally posted by Red Cyka:

In one you murder your best friend in the other you murder all of your other friends and no effort is made to find a way out of it.

How do you know everyone else dies?

I'm pretty sure that earlier it's eastablished that without you there they all die then you travel back and change things so that you're not there so in fairness they're dead already when you get the choice.

[Manic]

Tragedy isn't for everyone, I suppose.