Should we increase the difficulty of "Nightmare Mode"?

[[ACE] cbordeu]

I've seen some people saying they can still clear it pretty easily. What are your thoughts.

[[= ClayMeow =]]

Release the second mask this week; I don't care if we technically don't reach the number of kills you originally planned, it has to be done this week to keep people interested and playing. Show us what the future of Abyss Odyssey has in store for us, don't just tell us.

[Great American Shorthair Paladin]

increasing nightmare difficulty promotes coop play. You could just make a whole new difficulty harder than nightmare. Rename nightmare to hard or something. A lot of the problem stems from the AI not responding well to certain attacks like long range torwards-attack buttons that pincoya has etc. Also, the AI doesn't combo amazingly well. It's still pretty easy to cheese your way to the warlock and cheese the warlock because all enemies are just like "wot do I do he's poking me from a distance"
I think increasing nightmare difficulty is unappealing for some players because like mentioned earlier there is a huge margin of difference between the best players and worst players, some people with no FG experience are struggling on normal and some people are breezing through on nightmare wondering when it's going to get hard but there's also a group inbetween who find normal easy and nightmare too hard, to please all aspects of this wide spread of playerskill you need more difficulties. I'd say just adjust stats and limit combo hit #s to make an easy and hard difficulty, hard difficulty being what nightamre is now and then making a new nightmare difficulty where the enemies combo really well. Maybe adding in certain feaitures like AI being able to handle long range pokes at hard and nightmare difficulty etc. There are a lot of options here. Besides, adjusting neutral game too much can teach bad form so I'm never a huge fan of nerfing it too much.
These are just some opinions from my perspective and suggestions I think would work.

[Approximo]

I'm all for that insanely hard Nightmare mode that kicks your ass every time you play, but the few times you beat it the feeling is so sweet. I think Nightmare has to get alot harder than it currently is, and if some people think it's too hard there's always the normal mode right? But the hardcore players need a greater challenge for sure.

[Great American Shorthair Paladin]

I'm also in huge favor of an extremely challenging "hardest" difficulty wherein beating it is a triumph of survival. Nightmare mode doesn't feel much harder than normal mode right now.

[Grimdaddy]

I think Nightmare seems hard enough, honestly.

[Gork]

if you want to increase the dificulty just add a 3rd game mode, normal, nightmare, (some-classy-name-here)

[makaspaka]

I thought Nightmare mode was very, very hard. I was just barely able to beat it. I think I'm pretty decent at the game, too. I can clear the regular mode in about 20 minutes with hardly a scratch.

[[ACE] cbordeu]

Ok, thanks for the info. With regards to the new mask update: We understand that there was a gap created by the update 1.01 problem and are looking into making some sort of adjustment so that the new boss mask happens sooner rather than later.

I cannot commit specifically to speeding this up so that the change happens at 'X' date since our programming team is mostly taking a week off after a very heavy end of project, so we're kind of limited about what can and cannot be done.

In any case, this extra time is giving us the chance to work on some additional content for the new phase which will make it a lot more interesting, so the positive side is that the new phase will be better.

[[= ClayMeow =]]

Originally posted by ACE cbordeu:

Ok, thanks for the info. With regards to the new mask update: We understand that there was a gap created by the update 1.01 problem and are looking into making some sort of adjustment so that the new boss mask happens sooner rather than later.

I cannot commit specifically to speeding this up so that the change happens at 'X' date since our programming team is mostly taking a week off after a very heavy end of project, so we're kind of limited about what can and cannot be done.

In any case, this extra time is giving us the chance to work on some additional content for the new phase which will make it a lot more interesting, so the positive side is that the new phase will be better.

Sounds good, thanks for the update! :)

Sorry if my request came out a bit harsh - I'm loving the game, I just fear others are starting to leave.

[Approximo]

Originally posted by ACE cbordeu:

Ok, thanks for the info. With regards to the new mask update: We understand that there was a gap created by the update 1.01 problem and are looking into making some sort of adjustment so that the new boss mask happens sooner rather than later.

I cannot commit specifically to speeding this up so that the change happens at 'X' date since our programming team is mostly taking a week off after a very heavy end of project, so we're kind of limited about what can and cannot be done.

In any case, this extra time is giving us the chance to work on some additional content for the new phase which will make it a lot more interesting, so the positive side is that the new phase will be better.

Thanks for the news, and compliments to the team for seeming to be working so passionately even though you are a small one. I think that this game has great potential and these little exchanges with the community prove that you care for your game and its players.

[etran9e]

IMO, it would be good adding room variety and more extra mobs(don't need to be captured) which have setted patterns for users who prefer 'typical' side scrolling games. And IMO, for skilled users, more aggressive more smart(anti-spam) AI and more frequent appearance would be nice.

[FaxTf2 #fixtf2]

I agree with the above.

Regarding difficulty i can understand the players finding nighmare 'easy', but speaking of myself its easier then expected until i reach a boss- all mid bosses with helpers and so agressively are handing my @$% back to me.

[Vazra]

Nightmare mode is relatively easy except for the mini bosses and bosses. You can still cheese them if you have the souls of Verbum Dei or Living Creature and even Warlock and you can exploit the black fog wall on regular encounters so enemies dont attack you and continue moving forward with almost no difficulty except for the boss fights. Fixing the black fog walls should help on part of the difficulty but I think the boss souls dont need really nerfs as they are kind of a reward for your efforts with the game.

Maybe add more floors for Nightmare more?

[Alexotron]

It does feel more like the usual "hard" mode to me. Nightmare is challenging, especially the bosses, the warlock took me two runs aswell. But it's not really unforgiving. And then there is the level and hp difference.

If it is intended as a "true hardcore mode" maybe it's too easy. And that's not coming from a fighting game megapro. You are still able to regain your champion at an altar, purchase camp tokens etc. so even if you lose your champion one or two times more, the game still hands multiple tries on a silver plate to you in a sense.

When I first heard about nightmare mode, I honestly thought it would be without the ability to play as a soldier. You die once, you go all the way back to the beginning, no camp tokens either, with unforgiving, ruthless enemies that won't stop comboing your ass to oblivion. The game has the capability to do this, I think, so maybe instead of just making the mode "harder" by tougher enemies you could work in some restrictions. Or, as someone else suggested: nightmare becomes "hard mode" and you work on an entirely new nightmare surrogate.

I think a genuine "new game+, new game++ etc." mechanic, basically increasing difficulty stages, could fit the game design pretty well. But if I recall correctly, the game is meant to become harder once the community progress content kicks in, right? So you could just wait and see if the new tougher enemies and new warlock stage are a sufficient enough challenge for players who already reached max level.

[Yarott]

People want this harder? Well, I can see why when most of the videos I saw of people playing this game with this mode on were just doing a lot of cheesing with the best character/souls they could grind with. How about just adding a Time limit? One that, once up, would make "Reality collapse on itself"? While it would promotes "Speedrunning", it would also add to the survival of said mode. If people say that they can finish Nightmare Mode in 15 Minutes, put the time limit on ten. Heck! How about a Dynamic Time Trial?! It would work something like this:

- In the Beginning, the Time Limit is 90 Minutes.
- The Player beats the Warlock in 30 Minutes.
- The next run, the Time Limit would be 30 Minutes.
- The player beats his/her time in 21 Minutes
- The next run, said time limit is now their best record.
- Said record is beaten in 16 Minutes.
- It goes on until they can't beat their record.
- The game adds 5 minutes per time up.
- Until it goes back to the Default Time Limit (90 Minutes)

How is this for an added challenge? There could also be achievements based on Milestones ("Beat the Warlock in 10/15/30 Minutes in Normal/Nightmare with Katrien/Ghost Monk/Pincoya and while in Solo/Co-op (Friendly Fire On)"). There can also be some like "Beat you Time 5 times in a row". People want something more to do, I'd say that there could be Quests to do (only one quest/errand each run), at Random, and based on one of the 3 Starting Points. All only rewarding Gold, because those last longer than Gear rewards.

And, I guess, this is all I can suggest for the game. Challenges and Objectives, something to do WHILE each mask is being broken! People want something to do in the meantime. It is nice that there will be something like a Story Advancement once a mask is completely broken, but even the in-game soldiers would get bored from the everyday vicious cycle that is diving into the Abyss. Which itself is shorter than "The Odyssey". WHO WOULD READ "THE ODYSSEY" COUNTLESS TIMES IF IT IS AS THICK AS A PAMPHLET?! No one, that's who.