Demon Arm Vladyn - LUCK vs AGI

[dshamz_]

Discuss! Also regarding LUCK - Jester's Watch vs Fighter's Bandages?!

[Serpit]

Can't comment on AGI vs LCK, but for a LCK build, Fighter's Bandages vastly outdamage Jester's Watch (assuming you go Demon Arm).

[myhr2]

Luck starts slower but offer more survivability early on. Catches up in damage when Fighter's Bandages becomes available, and becomes a powerhouse with very high unbuffed power and insane when buffed.

Agi is more glass canon but uses Focus incredibly well, making it very efficient against endgame bosses, and has overall more usefull affinity bonuses (dat attack speed in Light affinity! quite hard to achieve for Demon arm, though...)

Overall, Jester's Watch is more for Weapon Luck builds. It's dark-aligned too, if you prefer neutral, you're better of with Fighter's Bandages. In term of over-all power, Fighter's has more straight-forward offense, while Jester's takes a little work (HP drain) but offers, again, more survivability, and flexibility.

[skooma]

I prefer Agi. You really need some armor ruin later in the game. Luck can't give it. You will have slightly more dmg (and hp) with luck, but without a.ruin it's not very useful. With agi you also have extra focus time, which is good for bonus damage from monk's robe.

[MimicMachine]

I don't remember what it is but luck works somewhere in his magic tree (which is the tree for his unarmed upgrades), also his arm isn't purely physical damage and so I'm not sure how much A. ruin really affects it (compared to other characters), in fact luck might be a little better cause it increases magic power (again not sure how much it affects his arm).

If you use deadman's fury and fighter's bandages with ice enchant it might do something (supposedly you can deal void, fire and ice to an enemy but it might just be fire and ice damage).

ps if you go luck get all health charms, you end up getting a ridiculous amount of health and fighter's bandages seem to keep increasing you attack above what you would get from other stats

[Spindles]

Originally posted by skooma:

I prefer Agi. You really need some armor ruin later in the game. Luck can't give it. You will have slightly more dmg (and hp) with luck, but without a.ruin it's not very useful. With agi you also have extra focus time, which is good for bonus damage from monk's robe.

I thought so too at first, AGI on most builds is ludicrous damage late game.

But Vladyn's Demon Arm just multihits and puts out so much more base damage than pretty much any other weapon in the game, Luck has the higher HP and Attack Damage by far. When you enter Focus mode, apparently you IGNORE ALL ARMOR on God-based foes when you have the Teachings of Life Blade. (This is what I've heard)

This nullifies a lot of the benefit of AGI. If you need more Focus duration you have options for that as a luck build, but things don't usually live longer than one focus for you.

[Nanaki Wolf]

Given that there's benefits to Agility as well as Luck, why not go for the middle-ground and invest in both? You need damage, but you need Armor Ruin too, so it seems a good way to get the most out of Vladyn.

If nothing else, surely it'd be worth it to finish of Leilodin with a Banana.

[dshamz_]

"ps if you go luck get all health charms, you end up getting a ridiculous amount of health and fighter's bandages seem to keep increasing you attack above what you would get from other stats"

So I decided with a full LUCK build + Fighter's Bandages + Monk's Robes for the focus. Full magic tree, and down the centre of the defensive tree for the skill cancel recover. I have to say, the damage is nuts, and I've shredded the last 4 bosses (Gernot, Manawar, grim reaper poison dude, and Anemone) in around 20-30 seconds each.

I haven't re-spec'd AGI, but I can't imagine the damage output being higher than it is now, it's pretty disgusting. Gonna go after the eyes tonight and see how that goes!

[dshamz_]

Originally posted by Nanaki Wolf:

Given that there's benefits to Agility as well as Luck, why not go for the middle-ground and invest in both? You need damage, but you need Armor Ruin too, so it seems a good way to get the most out of Vladyn.

If nothing else, surely it'd be worth it to finish of Leilodin with a Banana.

You know, I've thought of trying both, I've actually never run a split build like that lol. Can a split build ever be better than putting all points into one stat?

[Nanaki Wolf]

I don't know if split builds are "better", but I've used a few of them with different characters and they certainly don't seem any less effective. So longs as you think ahead and consider what you want from the character and what equipment you'll use to back it up, you'll get the build to work.

When you think about it though, Luck is in itself a mixed stat anyway. Strength boosts Physical Attack and HP, Intelligence boosts Magic Attack and TP, and Agility boosts Critical Rate and Armor Ruin. Luck boosts 5 of those 6 things, so it's already a mixed bag. It allows you to mix Physical and Magical Damage, and grants you the best HP and a commendable Critical Rate.

The only two, two-stat mixed builds that I haven't tried are Str/Int, and Int/Agi. Everything else has worked well (though I did have Agi armor in my Str/Luck build).

I personally think that Luck is the best stat, regardless of whether the build is primarily melee or magic.

Of course, people are able to provide you with data coupled with their own experiences, but the bottom line is, you need to come up with a build that suits your playstyle and what you want from the character.

Based on all the discussions and opinions I've come across, the only build which really doesn't work that well is investing in all 4 stats evenly. Though I'm sure there's a way to make that work too... maybe a melee Gilda might be a good candidate?

[BoswerLK]

I just tried a melee fighter bandage gilda. it was god awful. her kienzan with lightning was literally doing triple the dps with 3 int than her claw and scythe. her att and hp growth modifiers are just too awful, and her focus time scaling is nonexistant

I probably set some kind of record for worst VS build ever with that one =/

[Nanaki Wolf]

Originally posted by BoswerLK:

I just tried a melee fighter bandage gilda. it was god awful. her kienzan with lightning was literally doing triple the dps with 3 int than her claw and scythe. her att and hp growth modifiers are just too awful, and her focus time scaling is nonexistant

I probably set some kind of record for worst VS build ever with that one =/

I tried that build on my last Gilda run. Strength and Agility, evenly split. I was using the Scythe, Gladiator Armor, Fighers Bandages, and Bolverk. 881 HP, 343 Attack, 70 Armor Ruin, 128% Critical and 51% Afflict. Her 99 Magic was high enough to be of some use too. Focus was lasting 36 seconds, which was plenty for the extra bosses, particularly given her Agility allows her to use Great Dragon Fang. I found this build far better than her pure Int build.

I guess this reitterates my previous point though, that different things work for different people. Not everything works for an individual, but there's certainly no harm in trying.

[myhr2]

While pure Agi/Int/Luck builds have all very powerfull tools, pure Str seems to struggle, safe maybe Wyatt with his Str-based skill with Heavy attacks. In general, Str builds really badly need Armor Ruin.

[MimicMachine]

Originally posted by myhr2:

While pure Agi/Int/Luck builds have all very powerfull tools, pure Str seems to struggle, safe maybe Wyatt with his Str-based skill with Heavy attacks. In general, Str builds really badly need Armor Ruin.

this and if Wyatt's shatter and other skill (i forgot which in the red skill tree) could increase in the amount they give (progressively? as shatter only gives 5 on heavy attacks and the other did 10 for something)

[Red Riding Cape]

@Nanaki Wolf
Int/Agi on Wyatt with crit bow, muderous raiment, void blade spell, and the two skills (one for light, one for dark, if you get the two skills in his magic tree that give you a chance (based on alignment, if you have neutral alignment you need both skills) to fire out blade spells on each attack, and then spamming jump + Heavy is great fun if you want to try an Int+Agi build. I shamelessly stole it from another topic on steam and played with it.

[Nanaki Wolf]

Originally posted by 101RedRidingCape:

@Nanaki Wolf
Int/Agi on Wyatt with crit bow, muderous raiment, void blade spell, and the two skills (one for light, one for dark, if you get the two skills in his magic tree that give you a chance (based on alignment, if you have neutral alignment you need both skills) to fire out blade spells on each attack, and then spamming jump + Heavy is great fun if you want to try an Int+Agi build. I shamelessly stole it from another topic on steam and played with it.

I do rather love Wyatt with the bow, and the Warp Blade is pretty much my go to enhancement spell; even enemies that are resistant to it take a lot of damage, particularly with fast weapons. What you say with the Holy Order and Black Blessing is very true too, particularly with how fast Wyatt can attack with the bow. It activates on each individual attack, so you could get one to appear for each arrow at once. It's also one of the only times you might consider Light Affinity when doing an Agility build, since spell attacks can't critical, and attacking faster means more Warp Blade hits, and more magic swords firing off.

I would have thought that perhaps Mage Blade Purgatory or Seraphic Ascent would be better choices for a weapon though. Both of those have the "Magic Weapon" property, which causes your weapon to do damage based on your Magic rather than your Attack. So if you're going for Int, that's where I'd think of going. It would be even more powerful with the Seraphic Ascent, as you'd be right up in front of the enemy's face when the magic swords appear. The Murderous Raiment is a nice armour, but you'd have to make active use of your spells for it to be effective. Judicator Raiment is probably a better choice if you're not mixing your spells in, since it gives you 6 Int and 6 Agi at LV3, and an extra skill cancel to move around with. It's also boosts Light Affinity, making the increased attack speed easier to get, particularly with Seraphic Ascent.

Mind you, take all that with a pinch of salt. I'm not sure how much has changed in the past 3 years; I tend to just play Arena these days. lol