How, and why.

[{Δ} Achilles]

I have spent the last 70 minutes trying to beat Hamzir or whatever is name his as a Combat focused Merc (Obviously), and your RNG system is nonexistent, or bull****

There is no skill involved. I have a full sword/dodge build, 6 points in each (at this point, all I could possibly get by the time I'm thrust against him), 50 HP and 12 Dexterity. I didn't dump any points into anything not for combat. Yet this assclown, manages to stab through MAIL armor with a dagger. Not only that, but permanently takes attributes from me, that I have *no* way of avoiding.

So then, I end up having to reload *a lot*. This assclown has a 95% chance of dodging me while I'm stuck in his net. So to save myself for as long as I can, I just walk around until the net wears off. Then I use my own net, to keep him from dodging.

So I finally hit him 3 times in a row with a 25% chance, and he drops down to 'Almost Dead'. So I figure 'One more good swing, he dies', I get my hopes up, because the THC reads '49%'. So tell me, how do I miss FIVE TIMES IN A ROW WITH A 49% CHANCE?

Not only that, but how is it that my chances are drastically different each time, under the *exact same circumstances*

At one point I had an 85% chance to hit him, for no reason, I did nothing differently (Of course I missed twice with an 85% chance), yet other times I only have a 15%. All with fast attack, since that is literally the only swing worth while against him.

I was recommended this game as it was 'difficult' but I fail to see difficulty, only tedious RNG beyond all comprehension. Do, please, tell me, what skillful strategy could I use to defeat this Hamzir person. Should I attack his legs to keep him from dodging with a 5% chance of hitting his legs? Or, should I reload to a previous save, and find some mystical farming place where I can get more points? Because right now, I'm just incredibly frustrated at how annoying your game is. I would have more fun playing with a calculator blindfolded, and there would be fewer random numbers.

I would ask for a refund, but unfortunately I gave the game too many chances and so now I'm stuck with it, so therefore I've come to ask for your 'strategy' or an explanation, either way.



Edit: To clarify, this is a bit of a rage post. No, I still have not beaten Hamzir. However, when I think of a difficult game, I think of one that tests the limits of your reflexes, or hand-eye-coordination, or intelligence. This to me, feels like I'm pulling a lever on a slot machine over and over and over until I win. I don't see any form of strategy to it, except picking the right skills, and choosing the ability with the highest chance to hit. I really *really* wanted to like this game, but it is actively making me more angry than happy. I hope I'm just doing something wrong.

[Bavovnyatko]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

So I finally hit him 3 times in a row with a 25% chance, and he drops down to 'Almost Dead'. So I figure 'One more good swing, he dies', I get my hopes up, because the THC reads '49%'. So tell me, how do I miss FIVE TIMES IN A ROW WITH A 49% CHANCE?

Well, it's just how it works in RNG-heavy RPG systems. I hate them myself, to be honest, exactly because any real random is, well, too random (and that's usually bad for any "tactics"). If a 50% chance guaranteed that you miss one of every 2 hits until the chance changes, it wouldn't be random.

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

Not only that, but how is it that my chances are drastically different each time, under the *exact same circumstances*

That probably means that the circumstances are not quite exactly same. If Hamza's THC against you is high enough, he probably hits your arms sometimes, damaging your THC for the next few turns. Or maybe uses some other aimed hits with various penalties.

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

I was recommended this game as it was 'difficult' but I fail to see difficulty, only tedious RNG beyond all comprehension. Do, please, tell me, what skillful strategy could I use to defeat this Hamzir person.

In my (quite long) experience, the best combat strategy in AoD is using all the tricks and items you can access. Unlike simple weapon hits, most "special" items are 100% hit (like the nets, I'm sure you already noticed that).

Buy yourself some bolas and throw one to Hamza's head (not legs!) as soon as you enter combat. Its hit chance is 75% (good enough to avoid too many save/loads), and if you succeed, you'll have at least 2 turns of THC=100% with any weapon.

Also use poison. Making it yourself from kadura leaves requires minimal alchemy skill - 2 is enough, though it's better to put a little more to get its damage to 5 HP per turn instead of 3. If you don't even have 5 skill points to spare, well, buy some.

Prefer weapons with big bonuses to THC. If you can get some bombs / liquid fire (they are on sale sometimes), don't be shy to use them if you can't defeat your opponent otherwise. They really make things easier.

Overall, don't think that just because you put all points into combat skills, you'll be able to defeat anyone just by trading hits. It does work like that for some builds (e.g. I had a very good time with spear+block+heavy armor), but mostly no. Enemies who are supposed to be very tough (according to the logic of the world and story) still tend to have better skills than you, so you need to compensate somehow. There's not much strategy in random, it's true, so you really need to pay attention to things that are less random.

BTW, 6+6 in sword/dodge doesn't seem that high for Maadoran. I think I had it higher in Teron sometimes, though I might be wrong of course (and your pure-combat character probably has low intelligence, so less skill points for everything?). Doing more side quests before the guild ones might help. Or farming the arena for combat points, though it's a bit slow (but not too hard most of the time). Anyway, bolas, bombs and liquid fire are your best friends for the hardest fights.

Oh, and one more important tip for other fights (not Hamza). When you fight blockers (especially heavily armored ones), prefer power attacks (or arterial strike to the head), not the fast one. Fast may seem like your only option due to THC, but it's a red herring: most of the time, it won't be strong enough to deal good damage. On the other hand, hit chance against blockers is the chance of a "perfect" hit (completely bypassing the shield), the rest is split between full block and a graze - and the latter is when the added damage becomes important, because anything that's higher than combined armor/helmet+shield DR will go through.

[{Δ} Achilles]

Well unfortunately I didn't do any side quests in Teron, and I can't go back, because I'm locked into this assassin quest. This game's difficulty ceiling jumps around like nobody's business in the most illogical of ways.

Kill 10+ Gladiators? Easy. 3 random bandits? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wtf.

Also, I can't seem to find anyone that sells poison.



Edit: Hey, guess what, I finally killed the assbag. Question, though, how do I get my attributes back? Because if I can't, I'm going to be really pissed off. I've lost about 3 strength, and 2 dexterity.

[Vince]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

There is no skill involved. I have a full sword/dodge build, 6 points in each (at this point, all I could possibly get by the time I'm thrust against him), 50 HP and 12 Dexterity. I didn't dump any points into anything not for combat. Yet this assclown, manages to stab through MAIL armor with a dagger. Not only that, but permanently takes attributes from me, that I have *no* way of avoiding.

He's a top assassin (second in command who could have been a guidlmaster if he wanted it) who's been killing people all his life. It would be silly if you could easily wipe the floor with him.

So I finally hit him 3 times in a row with a 25% chance, and he drops down to 'Almost Dead'. So I figure 'One more good swing, he dies', I get my hopes up, because the THC reads '49%'. So tell me, how do I miss FIVE TIMES IN A ROW WITH A 49% CHANCE?

Not only that, but how is it that my chances are drastically different each time, under the *exact same circumstances*

Your THC is determined by many factors so I assume that something did change.

I was recommended this game as it was 'difficult' but I fail to see difficulty, only tedious RNG beyond all comprehension.

I'm sure you know how RNGs work. If your THC is low, the outcome of every action will be random. If your THC is high, RNG won't matter much.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/230070/discussions/0/492379439684099435/
^ full IG ironman run with all optional fights

Do, please, tell me, what skillful strategy could I use to defeat this Hamzir person. Should I attack his legs to keep him from dodging with a 5% chance of hitting his legs? Or, should I reload to a previous save, and find some mystical farming place where I can get more points? Because right now, I'm just incredibly frustrated at how annoying your game is. I would have more fun playing with a calculator blindfolded, and there would be fewer random numbers.

Your skills are a bit low for the fight, which explains some of your sufferings, but you should be able to beat him. If you want, email me your save and I'll take a look. I can't give you a blind advice without seeing stats and gear.

[e-mail]

Edit: To clarify, this is a bit of a rage post. No, I still have not beaten Hamzir. However, when I think of a difficult game, I think of one that tests the limits of your reflexes, or hand-eye-coordination, or intelligence. This to me, feels like I'm pulling a lever on a slot machine over and over and over until I win. I don't see any form of strategy to it, except picking the right skills, and choosing the ability with the highest chance to hit.

And yet you struggle where other people don't so clearly you're missing something. No offense meant, just stating the obvious here.

[Vince]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

Well unfortunately I didn't do any side quests in Teron, and I can't go back, because I'm locked into this assassin quest. This game's difficulty ceiling jumps around like nobody's business in the most illogical of ways.

Kill 10+ Gladiators? Easy. 3 random bandits? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wtf.

Depends on the gladiators and bandits. If you beat the champion of the arena, it's one thing. If you beat some criminals who were dragged to the arena in chains, that's another.

Same goes for thugs. There's a difference between random thugs (the gang in Teron) and the thieves guild's enforcers.

Edit: Hey, guess what, I finally killed the assbag. Question, though, how do I get my attributes back? Because if I can't, I'm going to be really pissed off. I've lost about 3 strength, and 2 dexterity.

Go see a healer.

[{Δ} Achilles]

Well, presuming you want to go for a realistic touch, an old man with no armor, and a dagger, should not even remotely be capable of going up against a veteran Legionary with full mail armor/helm/sword. First of all, the dagger would never even come close to penetrating mail, not even a full sized sword could. So this fight should have never really happened at all, if he was a good assassin worth his salt, I'd be dead before I ever saw him, or the target would die without my seeing. Like Assassins Creed, why would you *ever* do battle with a Templar? Let alone how would you even win that...

Anywho, I think you should place some more tutorials then if that is the case. I had no idea about a healer until I scoured the internet. I still don't even know where to buy most supplies, and half the city is locked down by some mega-bandit that apparently has military training and wields a vastly over-exaggerated hammer.

I can see your reasoning regarding the 'They're good at fighting too, and want to live' argument, but someone with a body count of over 60+ armed human beings that tried killing him, including numerous well-trained veteran warriors, should not have difficulty against a few thugs.

Edit: Very nice of you to offer to check my save, I appreciate it.

[Bavovnyatko]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

Well unfortunately I didn't do any side quests in Teron, and I can't go back, because I'm locked into this assassin quest. This game's difficulty ceiling jumps around like nobody's business in the most illogical of ways.

Well, tough luck about Teron... As a rule, you really should prefer doing side quests as soon as you can before progressing the guild story. Guild stories are short (I'm sure you've noticed how fast Teron events ended - it's the same with other cities), and finishing another chapter tends to lock you out of some stuff. You will be able to revisit Teron later, but there's not much sense, since almost all side content becomes irrelevant.

Actually, this "do side quests first, story later" is a generic rule, good for most RPGs in existence.

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

Also, I can't seem to find anyone that sells poison.

I'm not completely sure (I usually played with at least some alchemy skills, since poison is just too good to ignore), but I believe at least one of the 2 alchemy traders in Maadoran should have some (if not much). One is in Commercium building in the Trade district, the other in the thieves guild area (temple beyond the slums). In the worst case, 5 SP to level up your alchemy from 1 to 2 really shouldn't be that hard to come by.

[Vince]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

Well, presuming you want to go for a realistic touch, an old man with no armor, and a dagger, should not even remotely be capable of going up against a veteran Legionary with full mail armor/helm/sword.

I'd say that a man who's been killing others for 40 years would be much better at it than a man who's been a soldier for a few months at most, regardless of armor.

Speaking of which, the Roman armor was fairly open unlike the medieval full plate, so it's not like a knife fighter wouldn't know where to stab you. Plus dagger vs sword or even spear was a well developed and documented style. See Flos Duellatorum:

http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/wildRose/section8.html

First of all, the dagger would never even come close to penetrating mail...

See above.

Anywho, I think you should place some more tutorials then if that is the case. I had no idea about a healer until I scoured the internet. I still don't even know where to buy most supplies, and half the city is locked down by some mega-bandit that apparently has military training and wields a vastly over-exaggerated hammer.

The Slums? It's one out of 4 districts, 5 if you count the Abyss. It's described as a no-go area ruled by the Thieves Guild (its own "kingdom", basically). The "gatekeeper" is there for a reason and he isn't some random bandit.

I can see your reasoning regarding the 'They're good at fighting too, and want to live' argument, but someone with a body count of over 60+ armed human beings that tried killing him...

That is impressive, that's for sure.

:salute:

Edit: Very nice of you to offer to check my save, I appreciate it.

It's the least I can do.

[{Δ} Achilles]

Originally posted by Vince:

I'd say that a man who's been killing others for 40 years would be much better at it than a man who's been a soldier for a few months at most, regardless of armor.

There is a point in military combat life where experience/skill hits a ceiling and begins to drop, especially with regards to age. I would be more afraid of a Professional Soldier who spent 25 years on the lines and is still in his prime, over an assassin who may have had a lot of experience in his life, but is quite old.

Also, a Professional Soldier would have more practical combat experience than an assassin, simply by nature of work. A Warrior fights other men with clear intent to kill him, all at their best, with their best equipment. An Assassin, by nature, attacks when someone is least prepared, and unable to offer a fight. An assassin that waltz into a compound intending to kill every person he meets blade v blade wouldn't live very long. Because eventually, someone is going to be better than him.

Which I suppose is the role of my character, but I'd be amazed Hamza lived as long as he did with that strategy.

Originally posted by Vince:

Speaking of which, the Roman armor was fairly open unlike the medieval full plate, so it's not like a knife fighter wouldn't know where to stab you. Plus dagger vs sword or even spear was a well developed and documented style. See Flos Duellatorum:

http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/wildRose/section8.html

Lorica Hamata was actually not as open as you might think. Arms were unprotected, but they didn't need to be, due to having a large shield. Legs were unrestricted to allow for full mobility (Although many would wear greaves). Infact, Hamata would provide more protection than most Medieval armors simply due to the doubling at the shoulders, which prevents the most lethal attack, the downward chop. That being said, the game has the ability to render that sort of fight flawlessly with the aimed attack system, but it really doesn't. I would be less at a loss for words if he was using aimed attacks against my body parts and head/neck rather than just stabbing through my mail with power attacks, which is near-impossible for any bladed weapon beyond a polearm to penetrate mail effectively. Now, I could see the dagger going through the Segmentata's strips by luck, but not mail.

Also, why not add another form of defense 'parrying'? Parrying should actually be a much more suitable option compared to dodging, and it should also be more useful against multiple opponents. Even Roman Legionarii showed great skill in parrying, as they would practice swordsmanship even without shields, utilizing double-weighted equipment.

Originally posted by Vince:

The Slums? It's one out of 4 districts, 5 if you count the Abyss. It's described as a no-go area ruled by the Thieves Guild (its own "kingdom", basically). The "gatekeeper" is there for a reason and he isn't some random bandit.

So, is he some sort of super bandit? Does he have a military background with that enormous hammer? Is he just *really* big?




- On an unrelated note, have you considered a sort of 'Fight Arena' addition, where we can pit different NPCs against each other? Because I really want to see Dellar vs Hamza, the battle of the dodges.

[[SW] SeriousMike]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

There is a point in military combat life where experience/skill hits a ceiling and begins to drop, especially with regards to age. I would be more afraid of a Professional Soldier who spent 25 years on the lines and is still in his prime, over an assassin who may have had a lot of experience in his life, but is quite old.

He is kind of a professional soldier with 25 years on the lines. After all the Boatsmen have have a military background.

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

Also, a Professional Soldier would have more practical combat experience than an assassin, simply by nature of work. A Warrior fights other men with clear intent to kill him, all at their best, with their best equipment. An Assassin, by nature, attacks when someone is least prepared, and unable to offer a fight. An assassin that waltz into a compound intending to kill every person he meets blade v blade wouldn't live very long. Because eventually, someone is going to be better than him.

Which I suppose is the role of my character, but I'd be amazed Hamza lived as long as he did with that strategy.

I don't think soldiers fight on a daily basis. Also I don't think that soldiers regularly fight fair duels. All is fair in love and war.
And btw. Hamza is just waltzing into the compound killing every person he meets. He is that impressive and really an exceptional fighter. The fight is also optional - it's your own choice if you want to fight a legend.

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

So, is he some sort of super bandit? Does he have a military background with that enormous hammer? Is he just *really* big?

The guards in the slums are not really that impressive. There is just a lot of them.

[Asuzu]

Hamza is a very random fight, resolved in 2-3 turns.
Poison helps, same as bolas and nets.
If you survive his initial attack (unless you have huge dexterity, then u can move first) you should be good. Wearing helmet also helps a ton.
He has no armor, so just stab him as much as you can while he is in bola/net, and hope the poison will finish him.

And however you boys are trying to justify your "assassin" fantasies, no, in reality a dude waltzing with a freakin' dagger into a guarded compund will find himself just abused and used by a bunch of soldiers with swords/spears and shields.

Should I even start explaining how ridiculous it is to attack with knife someone who has a shield and weapon 10x times longer that yours? You are not killing anyone with your kitchen knife unless they asleep. So the whole "dagger assassin charging in" thing is plain silly.
Daggers were popular because they are easily concealed. In all honesty, the only place daggers should have is text adventures when you stab someone in the back.

[{Δ} Achilles]

Originally posted by Asuzu:

Hamza is a very random fight, resolved in 2-3 turns.
Poison helps, same as bolas and nets.
If you survive his initial attack (unless you have huge dexterity, then u can move first) you should be good. Wearing helmet also helps a ton.
He has no armor, so just stab him as much as you can while he is in bola/net, and hope the poison will finish him.

And however you boys are trying to justify your "assassin" fantasies, no, in reality a dude waltzing with a freakin' dagger into a guarded compund will find himself just abused and used by a bunch of soldiers with swords/spears and shields.

Should I even start explaining how ridiculous it is to attack with knife someone who has a shield and weapon 10x times longer that yours? You are not killing anyone with your kitchen knife unless they asleep. So the whole "dagger assassin charging in" thing is plain silly.
Daggers were popular because they are easily concealed. In all honesty, the only place daggers should have is text adventures when you stab someone in the back.

Thanks for the suggestions. I finally got him by stacking my sword skill a bit more, and getting a poison Khopesh and fast attacking him a lot.

Also, quite right about the assassin thing. Assassins aren't there to take on guards or soldiers. That is what your army is for.

[Bavovnyatko]

Hamza is an example of "unstereotypical" assassin. He may be considered assassin by his trade, because that's what Boatmen of Styx are called by people. His job is killing people who someone (in this case, Gaellius) wants dead. Still, he (and his whole guild) does operate openly (much more so than assassins from asscreed), so he's free to choose his own way and style of killing - as long as the result is right. I'm not going to argue about how realistic his choice of weapons and armor is, but you really should understand that in AoD's guilds, there is room not only for "normal" assassins who sneak in shadows, impersonate their way inside and stab from behind, but also for pure fighters who can handle themselves in open fight. Hamza is one such fighter. His success so far might seem unrealistic, sure, but isn't that exactly what being a "legend" means?

Thieves guild has such members too. Take Aziz from Teron, for example. No one would ever call him a "thief" in the obvious meaning of this word. He's rather a thug - and a good one at that. And he definitely has his uses in the guild, no matter how much sneaking and skulking most of their jobs involve. Of course, Aziz wouldn't be able to finish the guild's questline if he was in your place, but that's another story...

[BigDimono]

I found him the easiest "boss" to beat. The trick is to kill him fast. I poisened my blade, threw a net on him and killed him in two turns. He did hit me but only for one round. I was very surprised. I fought him again with other characters and he went down just as easily. I tried once to fight "fair" and lost pretty badly.

[Vince]

Originally posted by {Δ} Achilles:

There is a point in military combat life where experience/skill hits a ceiling and begins to drop, especially with regards to age.

Compared to what though?

You were a tavern bouncer a couple of months ago. Sure, you killed some men and gained some skills but it doesn't mean you're as good as a man who's been doing it his whole life, regardless of his age.

In terms of game design, Hamza and everyone else in the game has comparable stats, skills, and equipment. We use the same character system for the NPCs so there are no ridiculously high skills, boatloads of HPs, or godly weapons. Hamza is better because his skills are higher. If you play long enough, your skills will be as high as his, maybe even higher as his skills aren't maxed.

Also, a Professional Soldier would have more practical combat experience than an assassin, simply by nature of work.

A professional soldier with a comparable experience? Sure, but you aren't there yet.

Which I suppose is the role of my character, but I'd be amazed Hamza lived as long as he did with that strategy.

Keep in mind that the assassins guild in the game is less about being sneaky ninjas and more about being a secret police.

Hamza doesn't come to kill a random man for money. He comes to kill a merchant who plotted against the lord of the city. If he has guards, Hamza doesn't care about them. He didn't expect the merchant to strike a deal with the Imperial Guards but since you're alone...

Originally posted by Vince:

So, is he some sort of super bandit? Does he have a military background with that enormous hammer? Is he just *really* big?

His physical stats are 8, 9, 7, 6. He has 6 points in Hammer, 5 in Dodge, 3 in Critical Strike. Hardly a super bandit. However, he has some friends with him and that's what makes the fight tough.

[{Δ} Achilles]

And now I'm stuck *again*. I took the Expedition out into the desert to find the temple. Went inside. Came out, enemy Aurelian camp killed everyone. decided to fight them. Killed them through *gasp* strategy, by luring them away from the archers. Now, I'm forced to go back to the city, with only 12 HP, and get thrust into a conflict where I'm fighting 10,000,000 skirmishers, because for some reason every Centurion carries a crossbow now. I have *0* options. You'd think if my eyeballs were hanging out of my anus, I'd take a moment to rest up before going 6 days back to a city. Not to mention, the moment I find the city under siege, you'd think I would say 'Gonna take a break for a moment, and hopefully re-set my spine, before doing one of the two things I *can't* do, like sneak or impersonate'

So yeah. I'm literally stuck in an impossible scenario, and I have no desire of reloading to an earlier time where I managed to achieve several fights by monumentus luck/strategy just to put more points into sneak, or carry around 50 salves. I was just starting to like this game again, and then it decides to take a dump on me again. What am I supposed to do here, exactly?

If I had 50 HP, this wouldn't be much of a problem. But I don't. I have 12. Dodging all the arrows in the world won't do much if 1 shot kills me, because eventually between decapitating the first or second sailor thrown at me, I'm going to get hit.

I can't even go back into the pyramid to die peacefully, because the dead loremaster tells me 'We need to go back now!'