Lag/Input Lag in Co-op

[sauce]

Update: p0rk1ns has suggested locking to 30 fps as a possible work-around. For me it decreases the input lag, however it still remains, and becomes worse as latency increases.
People playing within the same region, and having latency of 100 ms or less will probably still be able to play just fine, only experiencing a small amount of input lag.

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I'm playing co-op with a friend from Japan, and we're experiencing lag/input lag? In co-op our inputs are definitely lagging behind, which isn't completely gamebreaking but it can get annoying overtime. Generally the ping between our computers is about 150-170 ms. No matter who is the host the same lag occurs.

Player 1:
Location: Japan
Connection: 100+ Mbps down/up
CPU: i7 870 @ 2.93 Ghz
GPU: GTX 680
RAM: 5 GB
HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM
OS: Windows 7

Player 2:
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Connection: 50 Mbps down / 5 Mbps up
CPU: i7 2600k @ 3.8 Ghz
GPU: R9 290 4 GB
RAM: 8 GB
SSD: 250 GB Samsung Evo 840
OS: Windows 8.1 64-bit
DX Version: Version 11

I really like this game, and want it to succeed, so I beg you please resolve this issue completely before launch even if it requires major code overhaul. Having input lag is absolutely unacceptable in today's market, and PC gamers, including myself, are very unforgiving with these kind of issues when a game is officially released.


"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."

-Shigeru Miyamoto

[Sonzaisuru]

Switch to windowed if it isn't, I've had that causing lag for me.

[sauce]

Originally posted by Sonzaisuru:

Switch to windowed if it isn't, I've had that causing lag for me.

No effect at all. I was previously playing in borderless window, but I tried straight window, and there is still input lag in coop. As a rough estimate it feels like it's about 200-250 ms of input lag.

[*BS* ~Bunny Mage~]

I have the same issue.. it's too laggy to play with my husband and it's sometimes laggy when I play alone :( I have:

Laptop MSI GE40
CPU: i7-4702MQ 2.2GHz
RAM: 8GB
GPU: NVIDA GeForce GTX 760M / Intel HD Graphics 4600
HDD: 1 TB
OS: Windows 8.1 64-bit
Input: Mouse + keyboard

I don't think it should lag with my laptop's spec? We don't like playing NNG on the same screen, so we would like to find out if this is going to be fixed soon. I'm surprised that the game is going to be released soon considering there are still many issues/bugs to fix. I do not mind having the game relased a bit late either just like OP. This game has "big hit" potential and that's why I bought it although it's an early access game.. I know developers are working so hard and I feel bad for pushing them more but I only say that because I really love this game. Thank you <3

[p0rk1ns]

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Getting rid of the input lag is what we've been working on non-stop since we put the multiplayer patch out last month. We didn't expect it to be a big issue because there's none in the PS4 version, but it turns out the unified PS4 specs means that the way that multiplayer was designed to work on PS4 doesn't work on the PC. So it's been really tough to adapt it for PC multiplayer.

[sauce]

Originally posted by p0rk1ns:

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Getting rid of the input lag is what we've been working on non-stop since we put the multiplayer patch out last month. We didn't expect it to be a big issue because there's none in the PS4 version, but it turns out the unified PS4 specs means that the way that multiplayer was designed to work on PS4 doesn't work on the PC. So it's been really tough to adapt it for PC multiplayer.

Thanks for your comment. It can't be said enough but gamers like me really appreciate interactions with developers.

I think any PC gamer who understands their platform knows that PC is much more complex than consoles, and thus it implies that development is also harder. I believe the vast majority of PC gamers won't mind a delay if the resulting game will be better for it. Japanese developers do not have a good reputation on PC as it is, and I'd hate for a beloved developer like Q-Games to be thrown on to that pile.

[Madfish]

There was (input)lag free multiplayer on PC even before playstations existed and in fact most of these games still run lag free today. Even if emulated! It's not ancient and forgotten knowledge either - and it worked in times of single core processors already.
Would you care to elaborate how "unified PS4 specs" relates to (input) lag issues on a PC due to a bad port? Have you gotten it to work on a single machine with fixed specs to begin with so we could run some tests and help with troubleshooting?

As much as I apreceate your statement and look forward to the resolution of this - I just can't accept the reason you point out to be the problem as the root cause.
It makes no sense and is invalidated by historic and current examples of decent multiplayer games. Examples that even go so far to include lag / client side latency prediction to be lag aware and "reduce" apparent client side lag below the physical boundaries of the networked packets, obviously while avoiding input lag which is never a PC issue but a coding logic issue.

That said it's nice to hear you're working on this. Just a bit sad you took it out of early access while having this critical (known) issue unresolved.

[p0rk1ns]

The input lag issue isn't universal - we haven't been able to replicate it in our tests - so figuring out exactly what the problem is has been difficult. It's been a slow process of trying to improve the netcode. Multiplayer IS working, just not as well as we'd like on all setups.

The problem with the netcode for the PS4 version and the PC is that the PS4 version netcode was written just for that. Many of the issues with multiplayer, from lag to the black screens, are either caused by desyncs between the hosts and the connecting player and/or sections of offending code for the PS4 version that were simply cut because a fix couldn't be found. While Double Eleven did a great job on the port, in hindsight it's obvious that we should have been involved with the multiplayer coding a lot sooner. Fixing it now requires substantial portions of the code to be rewritten, which is what we are doing now.

We are actively trying to fix this and we'll be posting patches as soon as they are ready to improve this for people having trouble.

[p0rk1ns]

A work around that you can try is to force the game to run at 30fps from the Options menu.

[sauce]

Originally posted by p0rk1ns:

A work around that you can try is to force the game to run at 30fps from the Options menu.

I ran the game with a friend from New Zealand (I'm in Vancouver), and the first time we ran it (1080p 60 fps windowed mode), we had the same rough input lag as I described before.

The second time we ran it, we changed it to 30 fps and we noticed a slight improvement. Instead of a 1/3 of a second lag it was more like 1/5th (rough estimates of course but hopefully you get the idea). But we continued testing, with controller, with keyboard, window fullscreen mode, fullscreen, turned off my 2nd monitor and even turned back to 60 fps and the improvement to 1/5th input lag remained. This is much better than before, but still not ideal. We both tried hosting, and after a player leaves immediately it reverts back to single player speed, which is still a world of a difference.

The software I'm running in the background are the following: Chrome, Skype, Mumble, DS4Windows (for my PS4 controller), Gyazo, Avast, Steam, Logitech Gaming Software, Google Drive, and Viber. I highly doubt any of this software is connected to the issue, or at least it shouldn't be.

[Ellis Island Book Club Militia]

If you are playing with someone from Japan and you are in Canada, there's a very obvious reason that you are experiencing latency, and it isn't because of poorly optimized netcode, etc. Playing with people from, literally, the other side of the world will almost always result in a high latency in just about any game. Think about how many extra nodes that the data is having to go through to get to the final destination...all those extra hops add up pretty quickly.

[sauce]

Originally posted by Ellis Island Book Club Militia:

If you are playing with someone from Japan and you are in Canada, there's a very obvious reason that you are experiencing latency, and it isn't because of poorly optimized netcode, etc. Playing with people from, literally, the other side of the world will almost always result in a high latency in just about any game. Think about how many extra nodes that the data is having to go through to get to the final destination...all those extra hops add up pretty quickly.

It's not "latency", it's "input lag" . It is a netcode issue, as the developer has stated above. I understand the concept of latency, but this is not what we are talking about here. If I play L4D2 for example, there is no input lag. Terraria no input lag. Dota at anything below 300 ms no input lag.

How is it that these games can accomplish no input lag but this game does not? It's the way the netcode is done.

[Ellis Island Book Club Militia]

Also, there is a HUGE difference between input lag and latency. Input lag refers to the time taken for the data to transfer from the input device to the computer itself (it's all local). Latency refers to the time taken for the data to travel from your computer to the server in an online game. ALL online games, EVER, have latency; it's a simple matter of fact and it is something that won't ever change. What can change is the amount of latency, but even then, there is only so much that optimization can accomplish - the data is still having to transfer from one location to another.

[Ellis Island Book Club Militia]

Input lag is NOT latency . These refer to two separate concepts. The developer acknowledged issues with netcode, which indicates LATENCY, not input lag.

[sauce]

Originally posted by Ellis Island Book Club Militia:

Also, there is a HUGE difference between input lag and latency. Input lag refers to the time taken for the data to transfer from the input device to the computer itself (it's all local). Latency refers to the time taken for the data to travel from your computer to the server in an online game. ALL online games, EVER, have latency; it's a simple matter of fact and it is something that won't ever change. What can change is the amount of latency, but even then, there is only so much that optimization can accomplish - the data is still having to transfer from one location to another.

... That's EXACTLY what I said...please read again -_-

[Ellis Island Book Club Militia]

They can optimize their netcode all they want, but if you are playing with someone from Japan and you are located in Canada, there will be noticeable latency. They can minimize it to a degree, but it's not something that can be gotten rid of.