Do you think the Class changes, nerfs, buffs and "new" building system suck?

[Minty-Snep]

I used to play the ♥♥♥♥ out of this game, i got like 100 hours in 2 weeks but then, the update came that changed everything! The shotguns suck now, zombies are OP, the buildings are too big, the jetpack is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and the "create your server" sytem was built to make users able to block literally EVERYTHING! (I know, I know there are normal servers again) I liked the old game more and had no problems with it. I think this is really sad and ruined a great game. I want to hear some more opinions on that topic. Hope some people reply and tell me their experiences.
Thanks.

[DEBUG.EXE]

Yes, the shotguns need a little bit of a buff... well, at least the pump-action. I've seen someone do quite well with the double-barrel.

I don't play Zombies, and with this endless nerf/buff cycle crap I don't see myself ever enjoying it.

If you thought the maps were too big, go play 0.54 with the /v/ guys whenever they bring the server up. Of course, Build and Shoot always hosts 0.75 so you can always find an aimbot-riddled BR-infested pinpoint server if you're complaining about the maps being too big.

Perhaps you could be more stealthy with the jetpack?

If users will "block everything" in custom games, it's the fault of the userbase, not the system itself. If you prevent people from doing stupid things, you will usually prevent them from doing clever things, too. I'm glad you can untick the "Teabag for Points" box. It's such a shame this isn't the setting on the ranked servers.

I liked the old game, too. But the old game I'm talking about is over a year older than the "old game" you're talking about. Back then, people only used one gun. There weren't a bunch of balancing complaints, because the game was a lot simpler. I didn't play the "old game" you're talking about - I joined 1.x during v122, and it's now v163 (v122 is something like build 3133.4).

BnS is a total mong magnet now. But if someone can host an older version (I propose 0.58, unless the networking in that is crap - we can turn the other guns off if need be), I think it'd be an interesting and necessary educational experience <3

[Phischermen]

The Miners shotguns really need to be buffed up! The problem with the shotgun is it's range is too short, it should be at most twice it's size. This would make approaching a miner a really bad idea! But since every other class can theoretically already shoot the miner from a distance, I think it would make the miner a little bit more suited for combat out in the open.

Then again it does sound like it would overpower the miner a little.

[Minty-Snep]

Since when do you play the game? I started playing in about February this year and the miners shotguns, tha jetpack etc. were not like they are today, they were OP but fun! If you were a zombie from the beginning and a miner saw you, you were dead, but in the end, the survivors never survived till the end. I just dont get why they practically recoded the classes.

[laberca]

The Double Barrel is OK, considering it shoots 12 bullets and each one does 50 damage. The Pump Action does really need a buff.

I don't really know how you can complain about zombies being "overpowered." There is no alternative to being a zombie in zombies when you are dead, so there isn't really a balancing issue. All the update did was make zombies harder, which is good because now it requires actual teamwork to win instead of just a single miner with a Double Barreled Shotgun or a rocketeer with a Glide Pack.

Engineers don't need a combat buff as much as they need better building abilities. Miners need a combat buff.

[JerryHatrick_Nz]

It's because they have no sense of balance or fun. I bought this game when it first came out on Steam. The Rocketeer was pretty much as it is now and the Miner didn't have the Double Barrel Shotgun. The Commando could only choose either the Minigun or the RPG, though the RPG had 1 round loaded with 9 spare and the Marksman only had the Bolt Action Sniper Rifle.

Back then the majority of players, 80%+, were Marksmen.

In an effort to get people to play the other classes they added the Double Barrel Shotgun, Glider, Semi Automatic Sniper Rifle and Triple RPG.

It was at this point that the game was really awesome. You had Rocketeers zipping round trying to take out the Marksmen. Due to this, many players started experimenting with the other classes. There were now always a couple of Miners, with a few a Commandos, and the rest roughly evenly divided between Rocketeer and Marksman.

Every class was being used.

The Miner was like an assassin. Digging around, popping up, one hitting a few players with the Double Barrel Shotgun and digging away again.

The Rocketeer was basically an anti-Marksman class. Though it was just as fun to zip behind chokepoints and mess them up. An fun exploit(? I guess?) was on Double Dragon, getting a Miner to place 4 TNT on the hill in front of the spawn, then using them to blow you up high. Then by using the Glider sparingly, just to neutralize gravity, reach the Tower on the enemy base.

The Marksman now had a rifle that suited players whose accuracy wasn't the best.

And the Commando... Well. While the addition of the Triple Barrel did little for normal gameplay (except give Trolls a new toy), I had great fun bunting the zombies into the air, popping them again for some more damage and height, and having them die by fall damage. Running out of ammo or having zombies get too close, I'd switch to the Knife and start cutting them up. It was excellent.

Now, after the recent changes... Rocketeer (Aka Engineer) is completely ♥♥♥♥. Miner, also, completely ♥♥♥♥. Instead of breaking the Double Barrel Shotgun, they could have just increased the time between shots slightly and increased the time to reload significantly. That would mean the Miner would basically get one, maybe two, kills, then be stuffed while he reloaded, allowing him to be easily taken out by any allies.

Instead... We are back to everyone being Marksmen. I can't remember the date this first came out on Steam, but it's funny to think that after all this time, after their time and effort spent on this, they are back to the game being just as boring and unbalanced as when it was first released.

Good. Job.

[Minty-Snep]

Yeah! Thats what im thinking! It was perfect, but now its ruined that. As commando its still playable though.

[Phischermen]

I miss the glider so much! I'd find it silly if they didn't give it back to the rocketeer in the next update.

[JerryHatrick_Nz]

Of course you miss it. They really messed things up. Admittedly, I took a long break and so I can't comment on what it was during my absence, but as I said, while I was playing, all of the classes were being used. Now only Marksman is being used. The other three are only used when people don't want to play seriously. With no intent to win. The majority of Miners I've seen have worked on destroying their own spawn while the now useless Rocketeer class is only used for building platforms into the sky.

[laberca]

Origineel geplaatst door Crocodillius_Nz:

Of course you miss it. They really messed things up. Admittedly, I took a long break and so I can't comment on what it was during my absence, but as I said, while I was playing, all of the classes were being used. Now only Marksman is being used. The other three are only used when people don't want to play seriously. With no intent to win. The majority of Miners I've seen have worked on destroying their own spawn while the now useless Rocketeer class is only used for building platforms into the sky.

I can use the others and do great (in fact I usually play miner), the problem is most people don't know how to play the others effectively. Most people try to just mindlessly shoot things like they would as marksman, which does not work for the other classes.

[JerryHatrick_Nz]

Origineel geplaatst door PSO gamerzap:

I can use the others and do great (in fact I usually play miner), the problem is most people don't know how to play the others effectively. Most people try to just mindlessly shoot things like they would as marksman, which does not work for the other classes.

You can't deny that Miner has taken a massive hit, though. Excessively so. That recoil is just plain ridiculous. The Miner isn't firing a cannon. As I said in an earlier post, if they wanted to nerf the gun, they should have just increased the reload time. I will not play a class where, every time I fire, I get spun around and face the ceiling. That's just stupid.

The Rocketeer has no use now and even takes away from the Miner. The Miner was supposed to be the builder. Now the "Engineer" is the builder. Again, as I said in a previous post, the only time the "Engineer" is used is to build a stairway into the sky.

They're just. 'for fun' classes now. Noone plays them seriously. When I used to play, the Miner had a small following of really good players.

As for the Commando. The health of the players has taken a nerf or the RPG has been buffed. Either way, the main reason it's used now is to one hit players at close range. The Triple RPG has been nerfed to the point where it's sole use is to rocket jump. I've only seen one or two people use it in my time back.

So as for your claim that people just don't how to use the classes effectively? Sure. That's because the other classes are so ♥♥♥♥ and underpowered that noone wants to bother. In the games I play, the clear majority are Marksman. Commandos taking up to a quarter. With one or two players going Miner or Engineer just to grief, troll or mess around.

Need to either revert those changes or nerf Marksman. Nerf Commando some too. That way all the classes will be equally useless. Users able to snap shot dominate the servers. At least if the Glider was still around people just could try to rush them and so on.

[laberca]

Origineel geplaatst door Crocodillius_Nz:

Origineel geplaatst door PSO gamerzap:

I can use the others and do great (in fact I usually play miner), the problem is most people don't know how to play the others effectively. Most people try to just mindlessly shoot things like they would as marksman, which does not work for the other classes.

You can't deny that Miner has taken a massive hit, though. Excessively so. That recoil is just plain ridiculous. The Miner isn't firing a cannon. As I said in an earlier post, if they wanted to nerf the gun, they should have just increased the reload time. I will not play a class where, every time I fire, I get spun around and face the ceiling. That's just stupid.

The Rocketeer has no use now and even takes away from the Miner. The Miner was supposed to be the builder. Now the "Engineer" is the builder. Again, as I said in a previous post, the only time the "Engineer" is used is to build a stairway into the sky.

They're just. 'for fun' classes now. Noone plays them seriously. When I used to play, the Miner had a small following of really good players.

As for the Commando. The health of the players has taken a nerf or the RPG has been buffed. Either way, the main reason it's used now is to one hit players at close range. The Triple RPG has been nerfed to the point where it's sole use is to rocket jump. I've only seen one or two people use it in my time back.

So as for your claim that people just don't how to use the classes effectively? Sure. That's because the other classes are so ♥♥♥♥ and underpowered that noone wants to bother. In the games I play, the clear majority are Marksman. Commandos taking up to a quarter. With one or two players going Miner or Engineer just to grief, troll or mess around.

Need to either revert those changes or nerf Marksman. Nerf Commando some too. That way all the classes will be equally useless. Users able to snap shot dominate the servers. At least if the Glider was still around people just could try to rush them and so on.

There's a few people on the website forums who seriously play Miner and Engineer, and while they have both taken a very severe combat nerf, they are very useful if played right. This does not mean shooting a certain way, or moving to certain places. Neither of these classes are combat classes. They are good at other things. The Miner is no longer the builder. He is the destroyer. His Super Spade has 27x the destructive power of the pickaxe, and his drill cannon can break like 300 blocks in one shot. The dynamite is kind of useless compared to the other two tools, but it can actually be pretty useful for defending yourself if used creatively, and if you are trying to destroy blocks in enemy territory you can use TNT to do it without giving away your position. The shotguns aren't good, but they aren't useless (except the pump, which is uselss and needs a buff). The Double Barrel deals 600 damage in one shot. They are only for defense. If you try to go around shooting people with them, you are going to die. The Engineer is the builder. Most people, like you said, will just build staircases, but with the high block count and useful prefabs a good engineer can lay down a base very quickly. People underestimate how useful building is. Get inside the wall prefab and you are practically invincible to anything but the RPG. I've managed to get top player as engineer on servers a couple of times by getting inside bases that I make and shooting out of them. The turret can be useful, too, despite being really weak. It serves as a fantastic distraction, and if you are fighting someone they will have a much harder time fighting back and dodging a turret at the same time. Combining the use of all of these will let you deal some formidable damage with the peashooter you carry, but the real value comes from when you work together. If a commando is supported by your buildings and your turret, he becomes an unstoppable killing machine.

I'm not saying this game is perfectly balanced. Sniping is too easy, the pump action is awful, and the triple-barreled RPG is really bad (although I usually choose it just because I LOVE rocket jumping). And like you said, the miner and engineer (especially the engineer) aren't quite up to par with the marksman and commando (especially the marksman). However, it is not so bad that Miner and Engineer are unusable, or even noncompetitive. If you know how to use them, they can put up a great fight and be a great help to their team.

[JerryHatrick_Nz]

Origineel geplaatst door PSO gamerzap:

...snip...

I can see what you're saying. It's just that in a TDM game there is no use for the Miner.
While I have started to see the light for the Engineer, that it's decent for building with, noone will convince me that removing the Rocketeer class and replacing it with the Engineer was a good choice.

Though, instead of buffing the other classes to match the Marksman, instead, why not nerf the ♥♥♥♥ out of that class, too? The Commando as well.

Make it take a whole second to lower or raise the scope. That'd stop the Snap Shots. Giving the other classes more of a chance.
Then lower the damage on the Minigun. Reduce the damage of the RPG vs players, too.

That way, you'd have four equally ♥♥♥♥ classes.

Though, while I can't speak for others, I know I wouldn't play the game anymore. As it is, if I had -any- other FPS I could be bothered playing, I wouldn't be playing this.