A per-game selection for steam file modification.

[REECHARD [VF4-S]]

My friends and I are avid game modders, using standard modding tools such as the nexus, mod organizer, and others for different games. The issue with this is that any time steam looks at files, it overwrites them with the defaults, completely breaking the game, or there will be a new patch from the dev, and the game *will not* launch without first patching, which breaks the entire game. The "do not update my game" checkbox is currently a lie. This prevents steam from auto-updating on patch release, but if I launch an unpatched game there is no option to not update before playing. This is unacceptable at the very fundamental levels of computer operation. Forcing file overwrites on working software is bad. Adding a "Do not touch my files please Steam, I may have changed one or two" checkbox would help us tremendously.

[Dusk of Oolacile]

Valve games: One of the features of steampipe is resolving this issue. There's a tutorial somewhere that describes where and how to put mod files in the new system. They won't be ever touched.

3rd party games: Contact the developer/publisher and ask for help/advice.

[REECHARD [VF4-S]]

The problem is not getting the game modded. I've done it hundreds of times over 15 years, since DOOM and other DOS-based games. The modding is not the problem. The problem is with steam overwriting the files once I have the game modded, or with a patch coming out that is required to start the game once I have everything set up and working.

[ExcessBlam]

Actual case:
Download skyrim,
mod it (with NMM or MO, though the latter negates *most* of this issue by using on-the-fly overwrites)
play for a while
then steam does one of these things:
-- updates game files because they are different (a la verify game cache). This breaks old-school overwrite mods and NMM system, but not MO.
-- updates game with patch, which may or may not break any or all of your mods and completely invalidate parts of your saved games forever regardless of whether you use on-the-fly updating MO or standard old overwrite mods
-- updates your .ini with the default. This is not *so hard* to get around, and isn't an issue with MO, but it's really very unnecessary and was especially annoying before we had such good archive invalidation tools and had to do these things manually

IMO this issue makes steam malware. It has a 'do not update my game' setting that does not do what it says it does and on top of that, it actually deselects without warning you. It overwrite my files without asking. That's bad and should be fixed. More directly, it would be great if it were not implemented in the first place on the new system.

[Dusk of Oolacile]

REECHARDVF4-SPOGO lähetti viestin:

The problem is not getting the game modded. I've done it hundreds of times over 15 years, since DOOM and other DOS-based games. The modding is not the problem. The problem is with steam overwriting the files once I have the game modded, or with a patch coming out that is required to start the game once I have everything set up and working.

The point of the new modding system is that you no longer have to overwrite any game files, so Steam won't overwrite them when an update or whatever comes.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7388-QPFN-2491

[ExcessBlam]

Thanks LOLCAT, but the issue is with steam forcing updates to games that are *not TF2*. There is no reason my Skyrim install needs to be updated from 1.x.x.x to 1.x.x.x+1 when I am using it and it's working with my SKSE and my mods.

In case it's not clear, with Mod Organizer's on-the-fly overwrites, overwriting mods is no longer possible for steam, but it still changes the game, which can simply invalidate mods and saved games.

The issue is with modification of a non-online, non-multiplayer game. Simply put: it is not okay to overwrite anything on my PC without asking me, the human user, first.

[Dusk of Oolacile]

Skyrim on linux? Is that a closed beta or is it april the 1st?

By the way, BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable and ForceOfflineMode=enable are your friends.

[ExcessBlam]

No idea, and perhaps this is in the wrong place. It was just meant as an example. End of the story is that mandatory overwriting/patching games against my explicit selection is bad, no matter what OS I'm using.

As far as I know, the directives you mention inhibit steam's ability to update *anything*. What we need is not force offline for steam, but for individual games. It needs to be integrated and supported as a part of the system.

The current setup is deceptive and damaging in a very permanent and annoying way, at least during the few years after a release of a game, when the game is being patched, if not always.

[Pocket]

DCBSupafly lähetti viestin:

Thanks LOLCAT, but the issue is with steam forcing updates to games that are *not TF2*.

"There are games that are not TF2?" - Gaben

[Dusk of Oolacile]

DCBSupafly lähetti viestin:

No idea, and perhaps this is in the wrong place. It was just meant as an example. End of the story is that mandatory overwriting/patching games against my explicit selection is bad, no matter what OS I'm using.

As far as I know, the directives you mention inhibit steam's ability to update *anything*. What we need is not force offline for steam, but for individual games. It needs to be integrated and supported as a part of the system.

The current setup is deceptive and damaging in a very permanent and annoying way, at least during the few years after a release of a game, when the game is being patched, if not always.

While I agree that it would be useful for some people, you're going against the whole point of Steam.

Don't forget that Steam was made for CS and other multiplayer games. The automatic update feature is there to make sure servers and clients are always updated and have the same version.

If your idea was implemented, the whole GoldSrc/Source multiplayer scene would go haywire as every single server and client would run a different version, therefore unable to connect to each other. I don't think Valve is ready to do that.

With games like Skyrim you can do you-know-what to keep it at a fixed version, but offline mode should help as well.

[REECHARD [VF4-S]]

LOLCAT lähetti viestin:

While I agree that it would be useful for some people, you're going against the whole point of Steam.

Don't forget that Steam was made for CS and other multiplayer games. The automatic update feature is there to make sure servers and clients are always updated and have the same version.

If your idea was implemented, the whole GoldSrc/Source multiplayer scene would go haywire as every single server and client would run a different version, therefore unable to connect to each other. I don't think Valve is ready to do that.

With games like Skyrim you can do you-know-what to keep it at a fixed version, but offline mode should help as well.

One of the other things you used to be able to do with disk-based media was install multiple copies of a game, thereby having a patched copy to play online with friends, and if it was a game you were modding, you could have your modded copy. That is also now impossible. This also only applies to multiplayer games, and is a completely moot point for *any* single player game. A simple checkbox that says "do not overwrite files or verify cache" would be awesome.

[ExcessBlam]

LOLCAT lähetti viestin:

Don't forget that Steam was made for CS and other multiplayer games. The automatic update feature is there to make sure servers and clients are always updated and have the same version.

I don't care why steam was made; it's in my way and I never asked for it. Perhaps if it was made for Valve games, it should stop forcefully updating games for which it wasn't made...

LOLCAT lähetti viestin:

With games like Skyrim you can do you-know-what to keep it at a fixed version, but offline mode should help as well.

Piracy is not a supported solution, sadly. Furthermore, I still want most patches most of the time, but I want to download them myself. Offline mode is a weak solution. If it does truly prevent Steam from patching a single-player game, what about that one time where I forget to go into Offline mode before running Skyrim and it invalidates my saved-game until all mods are updated, or worse, forever.

A real and actual solution to the insurmountable mod-breaking problem that is Steam would be a checkbox that says "do not auto-update" my game and also isn't a lie. If Steam is for consolidating my games and helping me manage them, then it *needs* this feature.

[ExcessBlam]

LOLCAT lähetti viestin:

By the way, BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable and ForceOfflineMode=enable are your friends.

Thanks for that. Won't this need to be removed from the config to get online and play games like TF2, for which Steam was actually designed?