Feature Request: Raw Input

[matt]

We still got RAW Input option in TF2 settings, greyed out. While RAW input is Windows specific, could we get something similar for Linux version?

[EPIC VOID]

And what benfit does it have ... ?

[matt]

Raw input means there is no mouse acceleration coming from your OS. Mouse acceleration is the setting where the cursor distances increases if the mouse is moved quickly which is bad for your muscle memory, ergo for fast and precise aiming.

[allan_nub]

I'd like this too, but I guess the feature needs to be added to SDL before Valve will actually implement it into games.

Forget about whether its called RAW Input or whatever, what we want is a way for the mouse data to be sent to the game without anything being changed on the way (regardless of system settings), with as minimum latency as possible, and we want an easy checkbox button to actually achieve this.

The vast majority of high skilled FPS gamers all use way to remove mouse acceleration from their game. I understand its probably possible to get 1:1 input by removing acceleration from X, but probably like most people, I actually like mouse acceleration on my desktop. Messing with Xorg.conf to remove it seems a bit too complicated for most gamers too.

#############

For the uninitiated - An explination
------------------------
Mouse acceleration is basically when the distance your aim travel as affected by the speed you've moved your mouse. For example, lets say you're watching the left side of a door and someone pops out at the right side. If you slowly move your mouse 3cm to the right, you're aiming on the person. If instead you quickly moved your mouse 3cm to the right you'd be aiming far beyond the person.

Basically, having the extra speed based variable makes it a lot more difficult to learn precise based aiming, especially compared with pure distance based aiming. The latter is easy for your brain to calculate, the former is difficult. To add to this, Microsoft has been fiddling with the acceleration settings of their Operating System in pretty much every version, meaning if you use acceleration, you need to relearn how to aim every OS version.

So historically games would grab the desktop pointers location in order to calculate the mouse movement in a game. This has two problems, #1 obviously means its affected by the desktop mouse acceleration. The second is you can move your mouse to the edge of the screen and thus the game cannot allow you to turn further in that direction as the pointer cannot go beyond the edge of the screen. The games reset your pointer in order to get over this hurdle, but it does mean if you happen to move your mouse fairly fast you end up, you can still hit the edge of the screen.

There are several other problems such as pixel skipping, but irregardless, they're all mitigated by taking the mouse info and sending it directly to the game engine without allowing the operating system to mess with it at all.

[matt]

I'm using a bash script, but while it removes mouse acceleration it doesn't feel exactly the same as it was under Windows (tried many different settings :/ ).
Guide here:
http://www.techytalk.info/turn-mouse-acceleration-off-on-ubuntu-linux/

[Bepis]

I've been trying to get my mouse to work just like Windows, and today I'm giving up. I won't be playing again on Linux until I get my mouse working decently. I just can't play comp like this.

Disabling mouse accel, getting the same dpi, tweaking X configs, nothing works. I just want raw input, from mouse, to game.

[GloriousMassacre]

Agree with these opinions, the only reason I will not play source games on linux is INADEQUATE mouse movements. I play 5600 DPI with sens 0.3 and I cannot remake this behavior in Precise. RAW input or analog is necessary feature!

[johndrinkwater]

Since enough comments were left here, I copied it over to github https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/732 though we’ll see what happens.

[matt]

Originally posted by johndrinkwater:

Since enough comments were left here, I copied it over to github https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/732 though we’ll see what happens.

Nice, thanks :)

[SinSchism]

Originally posted by allan:

The vast majority of high skilled FPS gamers all use way to remove mouse acceleration from their game.

I've played in some tournaments and no.... The vast majority of highly skilled FPS gamers can compensate and acclimate to accelerated input devices (including one guy who was really good with a trackball).

[matt]

That's no excuse, some of us are used to mouse behaviour we know from Windows and we as customers want to have same or similar functionality here under Linux. Steam for Linux is not damn gift for Linux users, it's a business opportunity and we Linux users and Your customers want to be treated same as those at Windows. Atm some major mice manufacturers don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about Linux gamers, so we can't adjust our mice properly through mouse drivers - another reason for Valve to step up and fix this (so mouse behaviour in Source games at least is on par with WIn).

I guess Valve Linux team may be busy with other things, I understand, but do not try to justify lack of this feature by saying that pro players can play with mouse accel etc, it's bad PR.

[SinSchism]

Originally posted by gutigen o):

That's no excuse, some of us are used to mouse behaviour we know from Windows and we as customers want to have same or similar functionality here under Linux. Steam for Linux is not damn gift for Linux users, it's a business opportunity and we Linux users and Your customers want to be treated same as those at Windows. Atm some major mice manufacturers don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about Linux gamers, so we can't adjust our mice properly through mouse drivers - another reason for Valve to step up and fix this (so mouse behaviour in Source games at least is on par with WIn).

I guess Valve Linux team may be busy with other things, I understand, but do not try to justify lack of this feature by saying that pro players can play with mouse accel etc, it's bad PR.

I apologize if it seemed like I was calling you out; I wasn't. The following five points will help clarify a few things you seem to have inferred from my statement.

1) I am not a Valve employee. I never represented myself as such.

2) I, at no point, made an excuse for the lack of functionality; I pointed out that one of your statements was a misconception.

3) I, at no point, said it wouldn't get considered or reported correctly (as per the forum post on the December 19th). It has been submitted and is being discussed.

4) Just because Mouse manufacturers disregard you doesn't mean others do; don't jump to conclusions

5) This is still a beta. It is, in no way, meant to be regarded as a complete, functional product.

On an aside, I am a linux user. I understand that users are very specific about their settings.

[matt]

Originally posted by Linux MrSchism:

I apologize if it seemed like I was calling you out; I wasn't. The following five points will help clarify a few things you seem to have inferred from my statement.

1) I am not a Valve employee. I never represented myself as such.

2) I, at no point, made an excuse for the lack of functionality; I pointed out that one of your statements was a misconception.

3) I, at no point, said it wouldn't get considered or reported correctly (as per the forum post on the December 19th). It has been submitted and is being discussed.

4) Just because Mouse manufacturers disregard you doesn't mean others do; don't jump to conclusions

5) This is still a beta. It is, in no way, meant to be regarded as a complete, functional product.

On an aside, I am a linux user. I understand that users are very specific about their settings.

1) This whole thing with different nickname colors is confusing.
I apologize aswell for getting a litte emotional there, I took you for someone else.
2) If you say so, my experience is different.
3) I know.
4) Not me but our platform. Example - no Razer Linux drivers.
5) Oh rly? I don't think I've said anything indicating that I'm not aware of that fact :)

[instabilis]

Can you not take direct input from /dev/input/[path to mouse]?

[Benjamin]

Issue #4 is why my new mouse is a Roccat Kone, and not another Razor.

[GloriousMassacre]

Bless you, TF2 Linux Team! For now mouse works the way it supposed to be!!