Towns
JackPS9 Dec 17, 2012 @ 2:57pm
Towns Devlopment - Xavi
Last edited by JackPS9; Dec 18, 2012 @ 3:05pm
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Showing 1-15 of 45 comments
Chowie Dec 17, 2012 @ 3:02pm 
Thanks for redirecting!
Cyborgt Dec 17, 2012 @ 6:43pm 
Originally posted by Nalidus:
EDIT: Ok, I came off as a bit of an ass there. So, I'm going to clarify.

Yeah, you did. Having read the post though i'm not sure how much I can blame you.

His post doesn't say what the personal issues were so it's rather difficult to determine if him nearly giving up the game was an appropriate reaction but short of a death in the family, i'm not sure how understanding I could be on that. I mean, I advocate dealing with life before work as much as anyone but nearly giving up on work isn't so much a matter of personal priorities as it is a sign of emotional immaturity. Again, that's unless we're talking something catastrophic in his personal life.

I'm glad he hasn't given up on the game but that information is more disheartening than pretty much anything i've heard on the issue so far. It just confirms that at any moment we may just lose half the development team which could mean no more updates from then on...
brotherhoodmonk Dec 17, 2012 @ 6:52pm 
...well, at least until code master Muzzy de-obfuscates the programming and takes up the mantle.

I bet he's just itching to take over.
Cyborgt Dec 17, 2012 @ 6:55pm 
Originally posted by brotherhoodmonk:
...well, at least until code master Muzzy de-obfuscates the programming and takes up the mantle.

I bet he's just itching to take over.

LOL, I bet he is. He seems to be loving the process of deconstructing Towns to figure out where the coding issues are. If only he had access to the raw code...
muzzy (Banned) Dec 17, 2012 @ 7:48pm 
Originally posted by brotherhoodmonk:
...well, at least until code master Muzzy de-obfuscates the programming and takes up the mantle.

I bet he's just itching to take over.

Oh, speak of the devil. I just now found what I think is the pathfinding code and I know some of the reasons why it sucks. However, since it's obfuscated there would be little value in toying too much with it.

Anyway, one big reason is that it uses the actual World class to do some checks and the pathing data isn't contained in the pathfinding system itself. The world class has a huge 3-dimensional array of fairly large tile objects (9 variables per tile) and it does some method calls every time for every tile to check if you can move up from a location etc. This is bad for cache and for the amount of memory accesses needed to traverse the movement graph.

The path cost calculation is also a mess. It uses abs(dx)+abs(dy) for path cost, even though diagonal movement appears to be just as fast. So pathfinding thinks first moving in X and then in Y is just as fast as going diagonally, resulting in potentially very stupid paths. It also punishes for movement along z axis, an incorrect solution to behavior resulting from a bug.

Also, Xavi seems to like implementing stuff by himself with ArrayList instead of using other java.util data structure libraries ... not sure why, is his own version perhaps faster than what java.util.PriorityQueue provides? For some reason I find that a little hard to believe, but I haven't tested it, so...

Gimme some more time to understand all of this code first.

PS. I'm not itching to take over, I just want to prove tommy is wrong with his hyperboles about pathfinding, and obviously the only way to do it is to get my hands dirty. So let's fix this damn A* code. I'm gonna take my time though, I'm in no hurry and I got plenty of other things to do too. But I just doubled my in-game time by analyzing the pathfinding, so I suppose this is my way to play the game :P
Fizban Frobozz (Banned) Dec 17, 2012 @ 8:09pm 
I agree with Cyborgt. I am sure Jack meant this as a positive post but I find it terribly discouraging. It is best to know what is happening, but until I saw this I thought the next patch would be here very soon based on their history. Now we learn that it won't be for another month or more and also that the developers aren't even as dedicated to the project as we hoped.

It is always a risk supporting a product in development and more and more I feel like this one was a mistake.
Solar Mongoose Dec 18, 2012 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by Cyborgt:
I mean, I advocate dealing with life before work as much as anyone but nearly giving up on work isn't so much a matter of personal priorities as it is a sign of emotional immaturity.
Really, it seems to me like the biggest contributor was probably the reaction they got with the steam release. They put a lot of time and work into this project, and up until now, they'd only had their own community's opinion on the game, which was basically all positive and supportive. But then they "released" it on steam, to a vastly negative response. I'm not saying they didn't deserve it, but that he probably didn't expect it at all, and it severely discouraged him.

Not that the "why" of it really makes any of it right. I agree, they seemed to be being very immature about it. But...
Originally posted by supermalparit:
I know that this is completely my fault and the most of you doesn't care about it (it's perfectly understandable), the only thing I can say is that I sorry what happened, really sorry.
It sounds to me like he's finally starting to be mature about it.
Cyborgt Dec 18, 2012 @ 11:16am 
Originally posted by SolarMongoose:
Originally posted by supermalparit:
I know that this is completely my fault and the most of you doesn't care about it (it's perfectly understandable), the only thing I can say is that I sorry what happened, really sorry.
It sounds to me like he's finally starting to be mature about it.

True enough. I can only hope that he maintains that resolve but it's still not exactly a post that inspires much confidence.

As to the negative steam response being the cause, I had considered that but i'm rather hoping it isn't the case. Nearly quiting over people yelling at you is by far the highest level of emotional immaturity so I hope that was only the smallest part of the reason he nearly quit. Again, he didn't say so we can't really make an accurate judgement of that but i'm hoping that it was at least a long-term relationship breakup that the steam response didn't help with that pushed him toward quitting...
JackPS9 Dec 18, 2012 @ 11:24am 
It is not from everyone complaining at him, but it did add to the stuff he is going through right now guys.
I posted this mostly in hopes that some people would slow down a bit on trolling and be supportive for the time being.(Not asking for people to stop trolling cause it is in your freedom of speech on the internet)
Fizban Frobozz (Banned) Dec 18, 2012 @ 11:56am 
Originally posted by JackPS9 (The bunny Slayer):
It is not from everyone complaining at him, but it did add to the stuff he is going through right now guys.
I posted this mostly in hopes that some people would slow down a bit on trolling and be supportive for the time being.(Not asking for people to stop trolling cause it is in your freedom of speech on the internet)
You seem to suggest anything other than unwavering support is trolling.



Originally posted by SolarMongoose:
It sounds to me like he's finally starting to be mature about it.
This is a great start in that department. If they would just address the misleading store page in addition to this apology it would be of HUGE benefit to Towns itself.
JackPS9 Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:20pm 
Originally posted by Evecque:
Originally posted by JackPS9 (The bunny Slayer):
It is not from everyone complaining at him, but it did add to the stuff he is going through right now guys.
I posted this mostly in hopes that some people would slow down a bit on trolling and be supportive for the time being.(Not asking for people to stop trolling cause it is in your freedom of speech on the internet)
You seem to suggest anything other than unwavering support is trolling.

Its the spam and those going way off-topic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about parts of the game or at the devs that I'm against.
Suggestions will always go further then complaining about parts of a game. Least with a suggestion your suggestions gets heard instead of being taken as either spam or just someone complaining about part of a game. That is what I have been trying to get at.
Fizban Frobozz (Banned) Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:29pm 
What evidence is there that the suggestions get heard? The biggest suggestion is to stop misrepresenting the game and that suggestion has been completely ignored so far. The actions of the dev's, whatever motivations they have had, has completely undermined my confidence in them and I don't think I am alone in that. At this point, I completely regret my purchase and feel any prospective buyers think long and hard about whether or not they really want to make this purchase.

Does this make me a troll in your eyes?
Cyborgt Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:31pm 
Originally posted by JackPS9 (The bunny Slayer):
It is not from everyone complaining at him, but it did add to the stuff he is going through right now guys.
I posted this mostly in hopes that some people would slow down a bit on trolling and be supportive for the time being.(Not asking for people to stop trolling cause it is in your freedom of speech on the internet)

That's what I figured, but I don't see a reason to be supportive of someone making questionable choices in their business practices simply because something went wrong in their personal lives. The two are entirely seperate issues and if I had any idea what the personal issues were I might offer some emotional support in that regard but it's not going to change my attitude toward Towns.

Originally posted by Evecque:
Originally posted by JackPS9 (The bunny Slayer):
It is not from everyone complaining at him, but it did add to the stuff he is going through right now guys.
I posted this mostly in hopes that some people would slow down a bit on trolling and be supportive for the time being.(Not asking for people to stop trolling cause it is in your freedom of speech on the internet)
You seem to suggest anything other than unwavering support is trolling.

Not that Jack was saying that (as his reply already states) but I see that one a lot. Some people seem to think the mere act of being critical makes you a troll and that the only legitimate post is one gushing with praise. It'd be pretty funny if those people weren't always so obnoxious.
JackPS9 Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:44pm 
Originally posted by Evecque:
What evidence is there that the suggestions get heard? The biggest suggestion is to stop misrepresenting the game and that suggestion has been completely ignored so far. The actions of the dev's, whatever motivations they have had, has completely undermined my confidence in them and I don't think I am alone in that. At this point, I completely regret my purchase and feel any prospective buyers think long and hard about whether or not they really want to make this purchase.

Does this make me a troll in your eyes?

Lets name what suggestions have been mentioned by the devs.
http://www.townsgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7858

Sorry only checked who posted last, on the first 5 pages, cause I didnt want to go through 50 pages of text.

No that does not make you a troll, your touching on what I mentioned about telling people that they should think/do research before buying the game instead of buying it on a whim.

Its those that are just down right say dont buy the game, even though the person still may enjoy the game. Which if they said something like try the demo or do research on the game first and see if you like the game. It all comes down to how you word the post.


Edit:
Also have a idea what his personal problems are, but it is not my right to give out personal info about someone so that is something I'm not going to post.
Last edited by JackPS9; Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:45pm
Fizban Frobozz (Banned) Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:55pm 
Originally posted by JackPS9 (The bunny Slayer):
Lets name what suggestions have been mentioned by the devs.
http://www.townsgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7858
I have seen posts like this from time to time when looking for planned features. The problem with these is that they are made by users who are offering suggestions. This link at least has a dev responding to a few points, but there seems to be very little information from the developers about planned features outside of the next patch. I understand them not wanting to make some fantastic wish list of features that they may never get to, but if there are some features they know for sure this game needs before they walk away I wish they would post them. Maybe you know where such a list is, but I haven't found it.

Sometimes I get the impression they don't really know what this game is supposed to be yet and that too doesn't inspire confidence.
Last edited by Fizban Frobozz; Dec 18, 2012 @ 12:56pm
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Date Posted: Dec 17, 2012 @ 2:57pm
Posts: 45