Ace42 Feb 5 @ 4:47am
Why I don't play GOIO anymore.
Let me start by saying that this is a great game with a lot of potential; and that TBH I don't think anybody really cares if I play it or not, nor noticed my absence. This thread is just an explanation, hopefully for the Devs to see, why - with the best will in the world - I'd rather just play something else.

1. Spawn points are a mess.
They kill Crazy King, as you can respawn closer to the next goal than the team that's winning.
They create a camping meta where, unless you massively outclass your opponent, the team who charges loses: You're going to get respawned upon, killed while you're injured, and then it's a 2vs1 against your team-mate. They get 2 kills for the price of 1.

This also makes the Sniping meta a game of "how bad is my Gunner and my team-mate's ship?" rather than "how good are my opponents?"; in my opinion.

2. Skirmish Mode is a camp-fest for the afore-mentioned reasons; but also down to the map design. I can't remember the last Canyon Ambush game I played which wasn't an exercise in testing people's patience rather than skills.

3. Lag-spikes. I played a game today, and it wasn't an issue, so maybe it's been resolved. But for the majority of my playing experience - particularly when obliged by population levels to play on US servers or 3vs3s; 4vs4s - it's been frustrating.

4. The average players are terrible; worse than the bots they replace.
This makes pick-up-groups an exercise in futility. It turns pugs into "Pick Pyramidion Brawler, or go home" snore fests; with maybe the odd Goldfish thrown it if you're feeling cavalier.

I don't want to be teaching 3 new players the basics of how the game works every single lobby; I don't want to have to micromanage their choice of load-out; I don't want to have to micromanage their actions in-game.

I don't want to have to be a hard-♥♥♥ on complete strangers; I don't want to have to hand-hold them through stuff that is a combination of the self-evident, common sense, and basic GOIO practice that they should've learned in the first 3 levels of play.

I don't want to have to routinely defend my choice of load-out, ship, and tactics just because I assumed my crew could aim and repair at least as well as the AI; and that I had a team-mate who wasn't completely oblivious to the map.

If I wanted to micromanage an entire crew, I'd just go play some sort of RTS. If this is what's necessary to play GOIO, then let us lock in bot-slots to our crew so that we can micromanage the crew directly, rather than having to do so by the painful vehicle of beggining, pleading, cajoling, requesting, instructing, directing, and when all else fails shouting at a bunch of strangers over the Internet using a mic...

So there we have it. That's why I've not been playing GOIO; and as much as I'd like to say "I'm just waiting for the right patch until I come back" - it's point four that stops me from even wanting to dip my toes back in the water whenever I get bitten by the GOIO bug.

I already have LoL and CSGO in my roster of "games that give me grey-hairs and elevated blood-pressure due to team-mates"; games that routinely seem like "chores" when things aren't going your way. And GOIO just seems to be way more of a chore than those too, oddly enough.

I suspect it is because, unless you are a Pilot in GOIO, you lose all your agency; and if you are a Pilot in GOIO you have to micro 3 crew-mates and then be reliant on a ship with 4 strangers on it too.

That's a lot more of a chore than going "well, bum team again, but at least I can go Rambo for the rest of the match while waiting for the next game."
Last edited by Ace42; Feb 5 @ 4:49am
Showing 1-15 of 59 comments
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Ayunae Feb 5 @ 7:40am 
Honestly it sounds like you need to play with friends. Get some people together and get a premade team you know you can rely on. Personally I don't even bother to play the game unless I can get at least 3 out of 4 of the crew on my ship as friends. Randoms are generally frustrating and it's the same in many many other games.
Ace42 Feb 5 @ 7:41am 
Unfortuantely a lot of the people I used to play with quite routinely don't play the game anymore. I do think better integration with Steam - so that it's easier to find Steam friends in game and vice versa - might help matters though.
Keyvias Feb 5 @ 8:20am 
Hey Ace,

Sorry to hear that you've become frustrated enough to quit the game.
I do thank you for listing out the reasons though, not because I can say "nah nah, you're wrong," but I can say "We should really fix that."

1. Capture points have been the least preferred match time since their introduction. Our chief designer has the some massive changes specced out for them. Unfortunately the team hasn't had time for them yet.

2. I can see Ambush being a little campy, but we haven't seen it happening on other matches as much. Can you elaborate what you're seeing, ship, weapon, and other maps?

3. Are you seeing FPS drops or MS spikes?

4. Ah, newbies. They're not as dumb as you think, it's really our fault for not explaining the game well enough. Every gatling that is fired into a balloon is us not explaining the mechanics well enough. It shouldn't have to be your job as a captain to have to explain how the game is played all the time, it should be our job as designers.
Unsurprisingly we have a meeting over thrying to fix that tomorrow. With the last influx of players we've seen people not understanding how the hull works or what to rebuild with.

We're also building a match making system so you get matched up with players of your skill level which should hopefully help the constant teacher frustration.


Despite saying you won't be, you will be missed. The fact you explained the issues well and even calmly despite the fact you're frustrated makes you as a good player in my book.
We'll do our best to improve the game to bring you back!
ZaSpecialist Feb 5 @ 8:24am 
Add me in game, I have same nickname. I like to play engineer, i buff and repair 24/7. Some games are good, some games I get engineers in team that camp guns and ignore anything else. This world is full of people that didn't unlock theyr brain potential = potato people. I played dota since closed beta and I quit 2 months ago due to the fact that community is just full of toxic players, and also Valve refuses to unlock the game's full potential and only updates hats in it. I tried the game 2 days ago again, lost all 6 games and I uninstalled again. GOIO on the other hand is just refreshing and believe it or not, I play super chill and game rewards me with a win. Have dumb team? No problem, next game it will be better, try to look at it in a different way...you are not losing, you are learning something new each play. So anyway, add me and I will be glad to play with you sir!
Last edited by ZaSpecialist; Feb 5 @ 8:41am
SirDaftwager Feb 5 @ 8:56am 
Best thing I did for myself on this game was get into a clan it opened up the game for me, it gave me a better look on the game and team mates to play with all the time and now I have a whole huge list of friends that I play other games with as well. So my suggestion is go check them out its a great way to enjoy the game in new ways while meeting a lot of new people :)
Ace42 Feb 5 @ 8:57am 
Originally posted by Muse Keyvias:
2. I can see Ambush being a little campy, but we haven't seen it happening on other matches as much. Can you elaborate what you're seeing, ship, weapon, and other maps?

It's pretty hard to get a handle on it, because of all the confounding factors at work that can turn a game around. But the main culprits aside from Canyon are Battle on the Dunes and Fjords; and the main circumstances where it becomes really noticeable is where everyone goes gats+mortar brawler.

A typical example would be 4xPyramidions on Dunes; say blue gets fed up of the face-off and decides to charge. Even if they focus fire and get an early kill (sustaining significant damage in the process); they have the enemy respawning battle-ready right on top of them, whereas if their team-mate dies he's the other side of the map, which means it's an easy 2vs1 for red against the remaining blue.

Part of the problem is that "knowing the respawn locations" is a very obscure part of the meta-game and there's very little rhyme-or-reason to their layout across maps; and as such it's a bit like "gaming the system" so-to-speak.

Compare the "one side of the map vs another" dynamic in Fjord and Dunes vs the "one in each corner and one in the middle" layout of spawnpoints in Duel at Dawn; completely different philosophies for their placement.

I think strategising the best way to exploit dying detracts from strategising the best way to engage the enemy in aerial combat.

Ideally I'd like to see the choice of spawnpoints generated dynamically: So they are deactivated (not offered to you as a choice of spawn location) if the enemy is within a set radius off them; with at least one dynamic spawn-point activated (selectable) near to friendly team-ships irrespective of where they are on the map.

I think hunting down sneaky squids to stop enemies spawning behind you is a far more interesting sort of spawn-related meta-game than manouvreing in such a way to exploit the static positions of spawn-locations one way or another.

3. Are you seeing FPS drops or MS spikes?
It's neither IIRC: The incoming datastream dries up until it's just a handful of incoming bytes. They're on time, there's just not enough of them. Could be packet loss I guess, but it's been a while since I was tracking it down so have forgotten what I had established. If I return to the game in the future and it is still an issue I'll keep you posted.

4. Ah, newbies.

To be honest, just the option to be anti-social and fly without a crew (or be able to set a minimum rank level and class restrictions on the slots) would let me get on and play some matches without the constant pressure on me to be a role model or otherwise try to carry.

I realise it's not what you are aiming for with the game; but I've had a lot of fun in a 4-player match with us each just going straight captain and setting to with AI crews; just like I've spent most of my LoL hours practising in co-op mode vs bots, even though I'm pretty sure that's not what the devs originally had in mind.

Despite saying you won't be, you will be missed.
I've always appreciated the work you guys have done on this game; it's a first-rate title that deserves to do well. I look forward to seeing what you guys do with it; and hopefully it won't be me viewing it from the touchlines in the future.
[TB] Byron Cavendish Feb 5 @ 9:18am 
A lot of great points here that have been touched upon before. Therefore I will address the biggest issue I tend to not be vocal about: canyon ambush. A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, canyon ambush had no clouds. The engagements on this map were much different then. They tended to happen right at the canyon gate. Unfortunately, the biggest issue at that time was that blue had a clear advantage in terrain. They could either camp any red ships coming through that gate with long range guns, or set up a brawl ambush on either side of the gate. Red on the other hand, was very limited in it's choices due to terrain. They could really only charge out the gate, and hope for the best, or take the two side entrances. However, because of the lack of clouds, any flank could be seen, and pounced upon by blue. So red spawn was very frustrating at that time.

Solution: ZOMG CLOUDS!!!11!!11!1! The problem is, the person in charge of clouds went waaaaaay overboard. In theory the idea is sound: use clouds to obscure line of sight to all the middle ground entrances of the canyon. This will allow either team to break out, or flank. However, in reality the vast amounts of clouds created an entirely new, and equally frustrating problem. Now no one can find anyone, anywhere. I cannot recall how many times I've watched a casual or competitive match and seen both teams fly right past each other. This tends to lead to camping, because it's easier to find your opponent by sitting still (and hoping they are not doing the same thing), in the very few clear areas. If the clouds were strategically used to a moderate amount, most maps would be engaging and fun. But as it stands, canyon is now the most frustrating 2v2 map to play on.
Omniraptor Feb 5 @ 9:55am 
Byron, solution- bring a ship with extra gun slots, and make one of those a flare. As for spawnpoints, it would be really nice if they showed on the in-game map, not just the default map.

Right now, I have screenshots I can consult in a pinch, but they're not as convenient as pressing a single key to see where the enemy might pop into existense.

Also, chaingunning the balloon makes perfect sense. In all the good steampunk airship novels I've read, attackers alway target the balloon with gatlings.
Last edited by Omniraptor; Feb 5 @ 10:00am
[TB] Byron Cavendish Feb 5 @ 10:10am 
Ah, a flare! Well gee, why didn't I think of that?! That solves everthing!
Last edited by [TB] Byron Cavendish; Feb 5 @ 10:10am
Fendelphi Feb 5 @ 10:21am 
Originally posted by Omniraptor:
Byron, solution- bring a ship with extra gun slots, and make one of those a flare. As for spawnpoints, it would be really nice if they showed on the in-game map, not just the default map.

Right now, I have screenshots I can consult in a pinch, but they're not as convenient as pressing a single key to see where the enemy might pop into existense.

Also, chaingunning the balloon makes perfect sense. In all the good steampunk airship novels I've read, attackers alway target the balloon with gatlings.
Just to add on.
I recently made a rush through the maze and attacked the enemy's spawn area, by a side entrance. We opened fire on the ships and slipped back into the maze. We then flew to the other side, and flanked them from the other entrance.
There are also lots of short cuts and "hidden" paths on that map which can help you flank the enemy, although not all ships are nimple enough to get through those(which might be a design oversight).

Chaingunning the balloon makes perfect sense, if you have Incendiary ammo. :)
Actually, that could be quite cool; Incendiary ammo converts 30% of the projectiles damage into fire damage.
With extinguisher and chem sprays on every ship, and the fire ammo's relative big drawbacks, I think that would actually be a nice addition.
Dimometer Feb 5 @ 1:10pm 
Sir Daftwager is absolutely correct, I have personally found that once people get to a certain "skill level" within this game, they should join a clan. This is the best way to start enjoying the game again, instead of feeling frustration at teaching newbies the game all the time.

Here is a link to the GOIO forums, it lists active clans: https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,295.0.html
Omniraptor Feb 6 @ 1:17am 
Originally posted by Fendelphi:
Originally posted by Omniraptor:
Byron, solution- bring a ship with extra gun slots, and make one of those a flare. As for spawnpoints, it would be really nice if they showed on the in-game map, not just the default map.

Right now, I have screenshots I can consult in a pinch, but they're not as convenient as pressing a single key to see where the enemy might pop into existense.

Also, chaingunning the balloon makes perfect sense. In all the good steampunk airship novels I've read, attackers alway target the balloon with gatlings.
Just to add on.
I recently made a rush through the maze and attacked the enemy's spawn area, by a side entrance. We opened fire on the ships and slipped back into the maze. We then flew to the other side, and flanked them from the other entrance.
There are also lots of short cuts and "hidden" paths on that map which can help you flank the enemy, although not all ships are nimple enough to get through those(which might be a design oversight).

Chaingunning the balloon makes perfect sense, if you have Incendiary ammo. :)
Actually, that could be quite cool; Incendiary ammo converts 30% of the projectiles damage into fire damage.
With extinguisher and chem sprays on every ship, and the fire ammo's relative big drawbacks, I think that would actually be a nice addition.

no, it just adds a chance to inflict fire stacks, no pure fire damage... Basically completely useless if the enemy is halfway competent and can use chemspray.
Omniraptor Feb 6 @ 1:19am 
Originally posted by Gent Byron Cavendish:
Ah, a flare! Well gee, why didn't I think of that?! That solves everthing!

I'm always glad to help, byron :)
Fendelphi Feb 6 @ 3:01am 
Originally posted by Omniraptor:
no, it just adds a chance to inflict fire stacks, no pure fire damage... Basically completely useless if the enemy is halfway competent and can use chemspray.
I think you missunderstood me.
I was suggesting a change to the Incendiary ammo, because compared to all it's drawbacks(Lower rate of fire, lower clip size, lower projectile speed/range), occassionally adding a fire stack is not a big deal compared to other ammo types(especially since it can easily be negated by chemspray/extinguisher).

If the Incendiary ammo actually did a bit of fire damage, it's role would be more clear, and the ammo type picked more often.
Last edited by Fendelphi; Feb 6 @ 3:02am
[TB] Byron Cavendish Feb 6 @ 7:44am 
I contest you on most active clan!
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Date Posted: Feb 5 @ 4:47am
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